miranstarr

wickedrum

here's a thread for you sum

PhoenixRising

Thanks, mee! It's a thread for me as well. I'm gonna repost here:

Well, I respectfully disagree and I'd just point out how this situation is vastly different. Iron Man, Thor, Hulk, and Captain America are nearly 80% like their comic book counterparts. Hank and Janet have been stripped of their entire story and everything that defines them as characters. They're barely 1% like their comic book counterparts. I don't expect them to be 100%, but I don't expect them to be thrown under the bus either, and that's the difference. Hank Pym and Janet Van Dyne are two of the founding members of the Avengers. They've been in the Avengers longer than anyone except for Iron Man and Captain America. They've been in nearly every single Avengers storyline ever published from the first issue in 1964 to the present day, including the ones in the MCU that they were written out of. They are more defined by being Avengers than any other Marvel comics characters since it's their signature title where they've been exclusively featured over the last 50 years. Hank Pym is Ultron's creator, not Tony Stark. Janet Van Dyne is the first female Avenger who named the team "The Avengers," not Black Widow. Hank Pym became Giant-Man after the Avengers formed, not Scott Lang. And Janet was once the leader of The Avengers after Captain America left the team to become Nomad. Hank and Janet have earned the right to be in the Avengers movies more than any of the characters currently in the MCU. And Hope Van Dyne does not exist in Marvel Comics as Hank and Janet never had children together and ended up divorced. They had kids with other people, but not each other. The character who made The Wasp an iconic character in Marvel comics over the last 50 years is Janet Van Dyne, and no other. Simply put, you cannot have the Avengers without Hank and Janet, and without the Avengers, Hank and Janet have no story, period.

I can't really separate the movies from the comics because the movies can have a fundamental effect on the legacies of these characters. I mean, look at all the damage done to Cyclops by the Fox X-Men movies which resulted in Marvel killing him and Jean off and replacing them with their younger, time-displaced teen versions. Spider-Man had mechanical web-shooters for 40 years in the comics, yet Sam Raimi made one Spider-Man film with Tobey Maguire and Marvel gave Peter organic webbing in the comics practically overnight. And thanks to what's happening in the MCU, Hank and Janet have not only been taken out of their rightful place in the Avengers movies, they've been phased out of all Marvel media including merchandising, where they no longer appear on any Avengers-related products; animation, where they were once prominently featured in Earth's Mightiest Heroes but are non-existent in Avengers Assemble; and even in the comics where they've both been sidelined and put on hiatus for God knows how long. Movies claim to have no obligation to follow the comics, but since when are the comics supposed to alter themselves to be more aligned with the movies? That's hardly fair.

And why has Marvel done this? Well... heaven forbid they confuse the general public with a discrepancy like having a young Hank and Janet in the Avengers in the comics but an old Hank and Janet in the MCU that were never part of the Avengers. With each passing MCU movie, Hank and Janet's legacy gets tossed on the scrap pile of history to be forgotten, and replaced by a character who has nothing to do with the Avengers in the comics(Lang), and another character who does not even exist in the comics(Hope). So please allow that this particular situation goes just a bit farther than movies not being 100% like the comics. This is more an eradication of two characters due to Hollywood politics and contractual obligations, specifically to Edgar Wright. And what's really dumb is that Edgar Wright didn't even stick around to make the Ant-Man film and quit the project because he wanted to make an Edgar Wright movie, not a Marvel movie. If Wright's script wasn't compatible with the MCU and the Avengers it shouldn't have been used. Hank and Janet will end up a footnote in the MCU and who knows how long it'll take to fix this mess. It took 16 years before Fox got around to fixing Cyclops and Jean Grey in the X-Men films. I don't wanna have to wait another 16 years before Marvel fixes this.

sum1

:bashes Homecoming Spider Man over the head with a toilet seat:

wickedrum

that make me imagine Tom Holland sitting there with a toilet seat round his neck

sum1

:hits Peter on the head with the rest of the toilet:

wickedrum

it's starting to look like the anti-Anakin thread. Which is good because that used to collect a lot of posts easily.

sum1

I've been doing anti-threads since 2003 when I joined the anti-Angel thread on the Buffy board. Also the anti-B/A thread. We used to put Angel in a room and open the curtains and then sweep up the ash. I shoved him down my toilet headfirst and he got stuck.

wickedrum

you kill them too fast, they've got to suffer first!

sum1

:makes Homecoming Spider Man watch Trump's speeches in an endless loop:

wickedrum

that's gotta hurt!

sum1

Yeah!

PhoenixRising

Okay, so you don't like hearing the truth from a die-hard Marvel comics fan who bleeds Marvel ink on the regular threads? Fine, I'll vent here.

Scott Lang and Hope Van Dyne have no business being in the MCU because Scott Lang is a D-list character who has nothing to do with the Avengers in the comics and was killed off at the end of the 1990's, and Hope Van Dyne does not exist.

Hank Pym and Janet Van Dyne are the co-founding members of the Avengers who have appeared in nearly every single Avengers storyline and comic written and published over the last 50 years, and as such are the ONLY characters that deserve to be in the Avengers movies.

Hank and Janet do not deserve to be cut out of their own storyline in the Avengers and have their entire story and everything that defines them stripped away and given to other MCU characters like some garage sale auction just because Marvel Studios wanted to accommodate Edgar Wright. Edgar Wright's Ant-Man script was written over a decade ago and was never meant to be in the MCU, and is not in any way compatible with the Avengers storyline, and Edgar quit the production and Marvel Studios president Kevin Feige himself admitted that the script didn't work, making all of it a total waste of time.

I know that movie fans who know nothing about comic books don't care, but I don't care about what they think either. Movies and movie fans are fleeting. They accept anything Hollywood throws at them and then ten years later they forget the movies that came ten years earlier and accept something totally different. But comic book fans always know who these characters are and how they should be portrayed, and most importantly, who deserves to be on screen and who does not.

Hopefully, after Marvel acquires the X-Men and Fantastic Four, they will correct the MCU timeline so that not only do mutants and the FF exist in the MCU, but Hank and Janet can be returned to their status and young superheroes in their rightful place in the Avengers, and Scott and Hope can go the way of the Days of Future Past continuity, erased as if they never existed. Don't like it? Tough. Hank and Janet earned the right to be in the MCU. They spent the last 50 years earning it. Scott and Hope haven't. The only reason they're in the MCU is because of stupid Hollywood reasons, and since when have stupid Hollywood reasons been a good excuse for doing anything?

Summer Falls

Yep I understand your frustration .. I wonder when they will change it and fix it to do it that way??

I know atm they will try and build up x men and FF which is interesting

PhoenixRising

I have no idea. All I know is that you can't tell Hank and Janet's story without them being in the Avengers, so if Marvel wants to promote Hank and Janet in the future in these movies, their current storyline will have to be totally changed. Hank's Ultron's creator, Janet is the first female Avenger and the second longest serving leader of The Avengers, and they're just too important to the Avengers storyline to keep the MCU the way it is. I hope it happens after the merger and after the Infinity War storyline is over.