PhoenixRising

Well please forgive me if I'm not exactly trusting in that area, sum1. I've seen how Spider-Man and Cyclops got screwed over in the comics because of the movies. And forgive me if I don't wanna wait until I'm 60 years old to see Hank and Janet in an Avengers movie as Ant-Man/Giant-Man and Wasp. I had to wait sixteen years for Fox to finally come close to getting Cyclops and Jean Grey's storyline right in the First Class movies after seeing them desecrated in the original X-Men trilogy. It was worth the wait, but I'm not immortal. Also, those other things I've mentioned I just find a bit too coincidental to be just coincidence.

Jen's Herald

whoops. *grabs AnW Scott n Hope poster and runs*

PhoenixRising

Relax, I don't fault anyone for that since it was a Hollywood decision. But the point still remains that this is not their story. Even in the comics, Scott really wasn't that important a character and he had little to do with the Avengers. Marvel killed him off after the 90's ended and only brought him back because of the MCU movie. And Hope... well, I can repeat that Hope doesn't exist in the comics, is only very loosely based on a parallel alternate universe villain named Red Queen and was only created for this movie, and that Hank and Janet are only in their early 30's in the comics and never had any children together, but I think I've already driven that point home.

Hank and Janet are supposed to be contemporaries with Tony Stark, Steve Rogers, Thor, Hawkeye, and all the other Avengers, so sooner or later, however long it takes, the MCU will have to reflect that because Marvel is not going to age Hank and Janet in the comics or retire them. And since the only reason that Hope even exists is because of Edgar Wright, I wouldn't plan on her existing beyond Evangeline Lily's contract. Once she leaves the role, I'm sure Marvel is gonna want to promote Janet asap so she doesn't have her legacy affected, similar to what DC did with Hal Jordan.

sum1

But Cyclops and Spider Man now look like they're going to be fixed up in the comics.

I sympathize, but these things move slowly.

What, the comic book changs to Hank and Janet and the introduction of Nadia, and stuff like that? I never said that stuff was a coincidence. I have no problem acknowledging it's movie influence. My point is that even with that stuff there is plenty in the comics that isn't influenced by the movies or doesn't match up with the movies. Even considering how much the comics get influenced by the movies, there's plenty room for discrepancy. So Hank and Jan could come back in the comics without appearing in the movies in younger versions.

PhoenixRising

It sure as hell took long enough. How long have you complained about what Marvel did to Cyclops since A vs. X? Or killing off old Cyclops in Secret Wars and replacing him with the teenage time displaced Cyclops? Or killing off Wolverine and replacing him with X-23? Yes things movie slowly, but the damage done to characters can last even longer, even after they've been restored.

I wish I could believe that, sum1, but I still have to disagree. If Hank and Janet returning to the Avengers comics were not dependent on their younger versions appearing in the Avengers movies, they'd be back by now. Instead, Hank is still fused with Ultron as "PymTron," Hank's soul is still trapped inside the Soul Gem, and Janet is still sitting on the sidelines while Nadia not only takes her place and her name, but has her own title, 'The Indestructible Wasp,' and her limited series with Scott Lang, which is bull. Janet never got her own title and she's been around for 50 years, and this MCU-inspired character suddenly gets her own title? That's way more discrepancy than with the other characters, sum1, which is my point. This isn't just a discrepancy, Hank and Janet are being treated like an inconvenience.

Also, Hank and Janet used to be featured in the Earth's Mightiest Heroes cartoon, but guess who is in the Avengers Assemble cartoon? Yep, Scott and Hope, the Wasp who doesn't exist in the comics. So do I think that Marvel Studios and Marvel Comics have reached an agreement to keep Hank and Janet out of the comics and cartoons while Scott and Hope are in the movies? Yes, I do. Otherwise we'd have them back in the comics already. It's been three years, sum1. Three years that Hank has been trapped inside Ultron. Three years that Janet has sat on the sidelines as Nadia takes her rightful place. Peter Parker didn't have Doctor Octopus' mind in control of his body for this long. It only took a year for Peter's mind to take back control of his body, but three years later and Hank and Janet are still out of action. And all because of this Scott/Hope nonsense in the MCU. All because of Edgar Wright, who has fallen back into obscurity, having made just one film in the last five years, Baby Driver, a movie that critics liked but hardly anyone saw. Hank and Janet have to suffer because of this wanker?

So until I see Hank and Janet back in the Avengers in the comics and animation, I'm going to continue to assume that their return is dependent on them being featured in the MCU as their younger, proper selves in the Avengers. All else is just conversation.

sum1

If you're right, you may be waiting a very long time.

I don't think Disney is very interested in putting a young Hank and Jan in the MCU. I don't think it's a priority for them. I don't think they care. They're certainly not going to mess up the MCU they're so proud of by rebooting just a part of it, so you'll have to wait until they reboot the whole thing. If and when the MCU is rebooted you might get a young Hank and Jan, but I don't see it being rebooted any time soon. They've got too much riding on the current version of the MCU. It's too successful to just abandon and replace.

Remember, their Ant Man and the Wasp movie is a critical and commercial success right now. That certainly doesn't encourage them to get rid of Scott and Hope and replace them with younger versions of Hank and Jan.

Those issues don't bother me half as much as this Hank and Jan thing seems to bother you, because I focus on the 20th century comics, not the more recent ones. As far as I'm concerned they stopped making real Marvel comics at the end of the 20th century. So yeah, the modern stuff can bother me, but it's not so important to me.

Two things stand out:
The 21st century comics aren't worth worrying about too much.
And, whatever happens with the comics will get sorted out eventually. It always does. Characters who die get resurrected, characters who lose powers get them back, etc. If you wait long enough everything eventually gets fixed in the comics. Even the results of the Disney/Fox feud got fixed (the stuff done to the X-Men and Wolverine). And as long as you don't consider the 21st century comics very important it doesn't matter so much how long it takes or when things get fixed. Even characters' "legacies" get fixed. Look at Hal Jordan.

PhoenixRising

Three things: One, Paul Rudd and Evangeline Lily will not play those roles forever. Rudd is 50 years old, and both Rudd and Lily have contracts that will expire. Once they leave the roles, there is no reason to keep Scott and Hope around in the MCU any longer. Two, Ant-Man and The Wasp did okay, but it was hardly a huge success, either with critics or audiences. It dropped 75% in its second week, the biggest drop for an MCU movie. Three, the MCU will more than likely get retooled anyway once the Fox/Disney merger goes through and Fantastic Four and X-Men are incorporated into the MCU. That's not going to be an easy thing to do, nor can it just happen overnight. I'm not saying that Hank and Janet will be in the Avengers movies right away, but at least some time by the 2020's. And while you are correct about legacies being fixed, they don't usually take decades, sum1. Hal Jordan didn't have to wait 20 years to have his legacy fixed.

Also, if next year's Infinity Wars storyline in the comics(the sequel to Infinity Countdown) finds some way of releasing Hank Pym from the Soul Gem and returning him to his body, then Marvel is gonna have to explain why there's a young Hank and Janet in the comics but an old Hank and Janet in the movies. I know this isn't that important an issue for you, sum1, but that's exactly why you don't see this from my point of view. Hollywood might not care, but the writers and execs at Marvel Comics will, and they're gonna be talking to Feige about when and how they can work Hank and Janet back into the comics and animation. If Peyton Reed is serious about doing a prequel movie about young Hank and Janet, then there's no reason why this movie can't find a way to move Hank and Janet to the present day and have them in the Avengers. The whole Quantum Realm and Infinity Gauntlet storyline provides a lot of possibilities. Who could've predicted back in the 2000's that Days of Future Past would reboot Cyclops and Jean Grey in the movies they way they did?

sum1

But there IS reason to keep the MCU consistent and they've already got a Hank and Jan in the MCU, so they can't introduce another Hank and Jan without undermining their story, which they won't want to do. And it doesn't matter whether Douglas and Pfeiffer are still on the screen as Hank and Jan, they'll still be on the record and Disney won't want to muck up the continuity of their precious MCU.

We'll see. I think they're more likely to fit the X-Men and FF into the existing MCU than reboot the whole thing.

Maybe 2024, when Trump is finishing his horrible second term.

Well you know that I don't think they need to bring a young Hank and Jan into the MCU to have them back in the comics. You say they'll keep them out of the way in the comics as long as they're focusing on Scott and Hope in the movies. Well I think there will be a time after they're focusing on Scott and Hope and before they're in any way willing to reboot Hank and Jan in the movies. I think during that time they might be willing to bring Hank and Jan back in the comics but not in the movies.

You seem fixated on the notion that the movies and comics have to match up exactly, but they don't. A lot less people read the comics than watch the movies. They're not aimed at the same audiences.


Again, that won't have to wait until Hank and Jan are young in the movies. So it won't necessarily force a young a Hank and Jan to appear in the movies. Marvel Comics doesn't have that much power anyway. It's the movie branch that matters to Disney.

Well if that happens you may get your wish, but I'm not betting on it and it'll still take a while. They've still got a lot of movies to work through before they can get there.

Summer Falls

I need to.chat up and read all this ..

madness

When are you going to go watch it, Petra?

fly me to the moon

Yeah, I agreew / this since I felt like they will reboot mostly w/ X-Men and FF than MCU since they already have the plan up to 2020 as MCU president said, so I don't think that they will plan to reboot the whole thing w/ MCU, but possible w/ X-Men and others..

And I def agree w/ you on that not everyone who read comic even tho I know some are okay w/ MCU movie who read the comic, but either way, not everything have to be exact the same way as the comic like compare to books that actual turn into movies/tv shows.. Shrug..

sum1

I like your Gamora avie. Zoe Saldana is a very good actress. Does quality work in Star Trek too.

PhoenixRising

I've edited my post here and I've decided to PM you instead, sum1. This shouldn't be on an open board.

Also, I'll avoid posting here again until I see Hank and Janet as the main Ant-Man and Wasp in the Avengers movies, which is what any REAL comic book fan would want.

We don't need more than one Ant-Man and Wasp, and the only Ant-Man and Wasp we need are the ones who have been in the Avengers comics for 50 years, and that's Hank and Janet. We don't need D-list, irrelevant characters like Scott Lang that Marvel has already killed off once before, nor do we need non-existent characters like Hope who wouldn't be in the MCU if not for overrated British filmmakers like Edgar Wright.

fly me to the moon

Thanks and I agree w/ you on that..

PhoenixRising

Excuse me, but allow me to explain:

Hank Pym: Ant-Man/Giant-Man/Goliath/Yellowjacket; founding member of the Avengers; creator of Ultron; 50 years of history in the Avengers.

Scott Lang: Ant-Man; minimal involvement in the Avengers.

Janet Van Dyne: The Wasp; founding member of the Avengers; leader of the Avengers; 50 years of history in the Avengers.

Hope Van Dyne: Nonexistent; Zero history with the Avengers; Zero history in Marvel Comics.

It's not about "everything having to be like the comics." If that were true, then Tony Stark, Steve Rogers, Thor, and Bruce Banner "wouldn't have to be in the MCU" either, but they are. It's about who belongs in the MCU, who has earned the right to be in the MCU and the Avengers, and who is most relevant to the Avengers storyline to make the transition from page to screen seamless. And since Edgar Wright's Ant-Man was never meant to be in the MCU, not compatible with the story the MCU was telling, was described by both Marvel Studios president Kevin Feige and actress Evangeline Lily as "just wasn't working" and "didn't fit" with the MCU, and Edgar Wright only ended up quitting the production, I honestly do not understand why anyone keeps arguing this point with me when I've already established that this was flawed from inception.