wolkenfuehlen

I'm sorry I'm so late with starting this! I was busy with uni stuff all day.

I'm typing up my thoughts as we speak, but I thought I might as well start the thread already in case anyone else wants to share their opinions first.

ETA: My thoughts, more or less chronologically.

I really liked the two Will voice overs at the beginning and the end of the episode. Apart from that, I have to say Will is probably my least favourite main character. His parents (the loving mother and the violent father) are a bit too stereotypical for me. It's been done in movies and tv shows a lot of times, hasn't it? But then again, tv is not always about inventing something new, is it? If I were Will, I'd have never told anyone about the garage or the entrance exam, like he did in the woods. I mean, sure, Scout is nice and all, but he's known him for half a day! Will should've really been smarter like that. Scout could just as well have been a mean guy and reported him to Finn because he lied about the exam. And then Will goes and is mad at Scout because it's Scout's fault he told him?! And Scout just really is trying to be a nice guy and all, and trying to help Will. Aww. I heart Scout. Anyway. I think Will just takes himself a bit too seriously, and also feels way too sorry for himself.
The way Finn in the end found out about the exam, with the light in the hallway, was just a bit too coincidental, wasn't it? And he tells Will the next day, and Will apparently doesn't get a chance to confront Scout until the evening of the next day?! That doesn't make sense. I loved Scout during the scene where Will and he make up again. "Nobody belongs anywhere."
I think you can tell that Finn likes Will well enough, but he really believes that you shouldn't take a chance away from someone who deserves it, and that's what he thinks Will did. And that is, ultimately, also why he lets Will stay, I think. Will's essay is actually really decent. I quite liked it.


I loved Bella/Scout terribly. There was such a cuteness between these two, and the end made me sad all over again. Their first scene together was nice, but I think what really did it for me was the bike scene. I love how the writers mentioned the whole "Bella's mom had an affair and Bella's dad isn't her real dad" thing casually and didn't throw it in your face, so that when Bella and Scout found out later that Bella's mom had had the affair with his dad it really was a surprise (at least to first time viewers. ) The Tender dancing scene was quite adorable, too. I have to say I didn't like Bella's aggressiveness during their next scenes ("so you don't want to have sex with me" , "is this the guy I'm gonna spend the rest of my life with?") because, well, she's only known him for a couple of days! Scout, on the other hand was very cute during that scene, too. I have much love for Charlie Banks, because he obviously loves Bella, and I think he likes Scout well enough, too, and it's just a sucky position for him to be in, to have to tell his daughter and her boyfriend that they are half-siblings. You can see how hard it is for him. But things are just the way they are, and it's not like he can change them. The last Bella/Scout scene has always been my favourite of them in this episode (or in the whole season?). I love how they didn't know what to say, whether to be serious or funny, because it's just weird, and it hurts.

I think you can tell that Hamilton is really desperate and just wants to make friends. I mean, first he goes to Will and Scout, and then, of course, he confronts Jake about the bike. He's just so shy, and so insecure, and it's adorable. (Why didn't the seniors also take Ham into town after the half-naked run into the lake? Because he's the Dean's son?!) Jake really wants to be left alone, I think, because she's obviously freaked about the idea of anyone finding out about her, but at the same time I think she really enjoys finally being able to tell someone that she's been to 6 schools so far, and how she manages to do that. I loved the Tender scene, and her smile at the very end of it when she's lying in bed. As if the finally realized that she made it, that people really believe she is a boy.
The roof scene... Ham totally dodges the Jake's "sounds like you have a lot of experience" comment. And honestly, I just don't get why you'd pee off a building, especially when there's people down there?! (And then later you touch your lips with your hand. EWWW.) The kiss, however, is love. Their insecurity about everything, their awkwardness... Later, in Jake's room, I think Jake really realizes what she has gotten herself into. And Hamilton... well... "OMG I think I'm gay" still had me in giggles. Poor poor boy.

Also, I love that the boys are really behaving like teenage boys. I mean, for example, the Six Pacs scene. Girls! With wet shirts! Which teenage boy wouldn't be terribly excited about that? The same goes for the scene where the crew team rows past the beach of the girls' school.

And I love Somewhere Over the Rainbow.

White_Lily

Okay, so I think I'll do it like this: I'll reply to your comments, and if I have anything else to say, I'll add it after. And I apologize about the spelling mistakes in advance.

Will never really did it for me. I mean, I know he's supposed to be the main character and everything, but let's face it, he's rather boring. In the minute we get to know him we find out about his father and we're supposed to feel all sorry for him, but at the same time we find out about the entrance exam, which made me really dislike him. I mean, so you were desperete to get out, so what. I'm sure he wasn't the only one, but he did cheat, and he did steal someone else's chance. I think he told Scout about it because he wanted someone to tell him that it was okay to do that, that it wasn't wrong because he "deserved it" after all he's been through with his dad (he was so trying to gain points with the story about his dad breaking his nose). I wouldn't only say he takes himself to seriously - I'd say he's really self centered, too. Everything's always about him. Like when he accuses Scout of telling Finn - he doesn't stop for a second to think that maybe it was the right thing to do (never mind that Scout didn't tell), all he knows is that he's been wronged, and that makes him the victim.

Scout is a sweety, I agree. He was way too nice to Will when he accused him of ratting him out. I really loved him in this episode. He's this happy go lucky, fun and above all nice guy.

I found Finn creepy, actually. I mean, why exactly was he wondering the halls at night and listening to the sounds coming from his students' rooms? You'd almost think he was hoping to hear something else. And I think he's the same as Will - he thinks it's okay to bend the law if he decided he's right, like when he doesn't report Will but instead gives him another chance. I mean he's accusing Will of cheating and taking someone's else place, but he's doing exactly the same thing just because he likes Will. I mean, if it was Ryder, for example, you can bet he would've reported him in a second.

I loved the Bella/Scout too, though not as much as the Jahammer. Bella is such a sweety, Scout is such a sweety, they're sweet together. Kate and Mark didn't really have a great chemistry, though. I mean, I didn't really feel the love between them, like I did with J/H or B/S. I don't know, I thought the whole syblings thing was a given since the second she mentioned charlie not being her biological father. It bothered me, though, because it's such a dramatic way to create angst for a couple. And I don't think they were nearly horrifyed or devastated enough. I mean, if I found I was making out with my half brother (and I'm not even talking about love here) I would've thrown up for days after, and I certainly wouldn't have been able to just go up to him and say "so I guess looks run in the family". I don't know if Bella was too aggressive; I think it felt like that because she was talking about "forever" and you didn't really feel the all-consuming desire between them. And I, too, felt for Charlie. I guess he was even more worried because he didn't know Bella knew he wasn't her reall father.

Hamilton - Oh, ham, you great big dork. Yeah, he's obviously desperete for friends, and very awkward in the social department. That's what growing up as a young kid around adults does to you. I'll even hazard a guess that he was home-schooled. With Will and Scout it's clear that he tries to impress them, and gets really emberessed when it's not working, and with Jake he's even worse - his first contact with her is a blackmail attempt! I think the seniors didn't take him because he obviously knew the trick - I mean, he grew up there, he must've seen them do it before.

Jake -- I can't say enough how much I adore Jake. She's my favourite by far (it doesn't hurt that I'm head over heels for KM). I don't think she wants to be alone as much as she's trying to act it cool. And I think she appears sarcastic about everything because she doesn't really want to get attached to anything, since she's expecting her mom to haul her ass out of there in no time. I think that smile when she's lying on her bed is because of Hamilton, though, not because she managed to pull it off.

The jahammer - I love that the first time Hamilton sees Jake, it's through his camera. His two passions - Jake and photography. It's a clever forshadowing! And I love her expression when he approaches her for the first time - her face just says "you're such a dork". And later, when he's obviously trying to impress her with all his "knowledge" about the battle of the sexes, she's all like "woah, kid, that's like first grade stuff", and of course he doesn't get the sarcasam. But she obviously thinks he's an adorable dork. And when she kisses him - she forgets her charade for a minute because he makes her so comfortable. And he totally leans into the kiss and closes his eyes, btw. He enjoyed it. And when she backs up she's not really sorry - you can see she's trying to hide a smile. And I loved the end, too, when he comes all high and mighty and she confuses him with her "let's ignore it! Let's not talk about it!" and he keeps trying to say the last word and she's not letting him. She's such a control freak, our Jake and I abseloutly adored his "omg gay!" in the end, and that time when she's all "I'm-the-man-dear-god-what-have-I-got-myself-into".

One more thing - what's up with Hamilton's hair in this episode? It's aweful!

Okay, those are my thoughts without watching the episode, I didn't have time yet, so I'll come back and say more when I watch it.

ETA: okay, a few more things, now that I've seen the episode:
When Hamilton sees Jake arrive on the bike, he actually takes a picture of the close up of her face! And on the boat, when Will's telling his pie contest story (can I say 'ewww'?) he's totally checking her out. And I really like that when they shake hands in the end, they hold on way too long. So much subtex goodness!
The scene where Bella and Scout are riding his bike and she's sitting in front? That's my favourite scene of them in the whole series. There's something really sweet and innocent about it. Although for the whole episode, Scout seems a lot more into her than she is into him. And that dancing together scene is really cute, too. Also, after rewatching their last scene together, it's a lot better than I remembered. You can really feel the awkwardness and the way they can't help but want one another despite everything. And of course Will, the self-centered idiot, comes barging in and doesn't even realize something is wrong. It's always all about him.
About Will's apology to Scout for accusing him - I really hated it that even as he apologizes, he makes excuses for his behavior (I've always wanted to be here, for you everything is possible, blah blah blah).

Last thing, I have a question: did you guess that Jake was a girl before she strips? I knew the plot before I saw the series, so of course I knew, but I'm curious how it looked to someone who didn't know. I made my best friend watch the first episode, and when she saw Jake at first she was like "there's something really wierd about that guy" but after a few minutes, she turned to me and said "is that a girl?" so I wonder what you guys thought.

wolkenfuehlen

Agreed. Thing is, I never really did. The thing with his father was just a bit too 'in your face'. You know?


Yes, he's all "me! my chance! how could you do that to me! blaaaaah", and I don't think he even realizes that cheating on the entrance exam was wrong. Somehow, I think he thinks he has the right to cheat, only because he might not lead the best life.

I think he was still in the hallways because he was in his office?! Still, doesn't explain the wandering around. As I said, the thing with the blinking light bulb was just a bit too stupid.

I'm pretty sure someone mentioned once that in the first pilot script draft Bella and Scout were meant to be having sex after they were at the docks together (after Bella's "so you don't want to have sex with me"). That would've made the whole thing even more... interesting. I personally have to say I would probably freak out more because I can't be with the person anymore than because he is my half-brother and I made out with him. I mean... it's not like she could've known and conciously decided to do it, so... But maybe that's just me.

Btw, I completely agree, Mark and Kate have no chemistry whatsoever. It's really a shame.

He must've been. I mean, otherwise he would've gone to the school in town, and then he would've met and known Will, right? The town isn't that big.

Ah, of course! That makes perfect sense!

Agreed.



I love that. I think a part of her certainly thinks "OMG I kissed him! How could I?! *freaks out*", but another (bigger) part is all "OMG I kissed him! YAY!!!".

I think the episode was shot long before the other episodes, and you can tell, for example, by Ham's (awful) hair, or by Jake's longer hair.

Can't wait to hear the rest of your thoughts once you've watched the episode!

KyleCapeside

Here is my opinion on the episode. Sorry if it is not quite as thorough as I would like it to be I have been moving my office around all day to make this place look better for my boss.

First off I have to say I enjoyed seeing Will again, first being a spin off of Dawson's Creek character (only to get this show going). He doesn't bother me quit as much as most make him out to be, I do think he is all about himself though. I mean he is "under" privileged kid who happens to get into a very extinguished school on the fact that he cheated on the entrance exam. I agree completely on the lack luster of how he just blurts out he cheated like a kept in fart. haha sorry I couldn't help it. But for being the main character he is not the one who has me tied into the show. I do wish he had some what of a romance going on I guess, he is the only one who is not with another character except Scout, who I doubt is credited as his lover.

Scout and Bella are awesome together their scenes remind me of a favorite movie/book of mine The Notebook. hence the dancing, riding on the front of the bike, dreams of a future together, but you get sad when the plot twists and they are related to each other. This episode has you think so many romances are going to blossom right out front and everyone has a catch to it. All in all I think it could have been more to them than just the feeling "dude you have been tonging your own sister.

Jake and Hamilton are my favorite, this episode if you have never seen it makes you think Jake is actually a guy. When I first watched I didn't pay attention to the fact that Katherine Moennig was a chick, and I really thought Hamilton could be gay. I love the line where Hamilton is pacing the hall and says "God I think I'm Gay" when you know he is not. This is one of those relationships I love, the fact of all the mystery and self doubt at first.

All in all have to say I love the episode, I do agree the light bulb flicker is a retarded reason to hear about the 1 kid who cheated and happens to be telling Scout at the time is right where that bulb is, and actually in hearing distance through a door???? Ok sure thing. But even though I critic on the bad, for the 50 or 45 minutes t he show is on that is as much I can pick it apart right now. There are a lot of good scenes that I will mention in a few replies but that's it for now.

White_Lily

Well, he has Caroline, but she's annoying as well and there's not much chemistry there.

KyleCapeside

Yeah but everyone else gets thrown into a relationship off the bat in this episode. which makes them more intriguing to me at least

wolkenfuehlen

I think it also makes it a lot easier for the writers to find a storyline for each episode if two main characters are have a certain relationship with each other.


*bites lip* Where is that Scout/Will thread again?

Honestly, I think Jake and Ham are everyone's favourite. It always amused me that the main storyline (W/B/S) never got as much fan attention as the side storyline (J/H).

I'm still a bit sad that I saw YA dubbed when I first watched it, and that Kate's dubbing voice gave away that she was in fact a girl, because I think I maybe wouldn't have realized at first had I seen it in the original version.

I never quite know if I should laugh at him or cuddle him and tell him it'll all be okay. Poor poor boy. It's always mean when the audience knows stuff that the characters don't know.

KyleCapeside

That is funny I mean you see everyone else eyeballing a girl except him. I know Ham didn't know Jake was a girl then but still in the end Jake is a girl.

It is that confused look that he has when he says it, which is great

Yeah the version i saw when it first aired i don't think was dubbed??? Although it was years ago and if it was i might have just been gullible

White_Lily

I agree. It always gives you direction. As a writer (I don't write only fanfiction) it's really hard (at least for me) not to write someone with at least the direction of a romantic relationship.

It's the amazing chemistry. And the hotness. And of course, the"boy falls for boy who turns out to be a girl" storyline is so much better than the "boy and girl fall for each other, turn out to be syblings, angst a lot, then turn out not to be syblings. Oh, and there's this guy who's supposed to be the main character but we don't really know what to do with him so we'll just stick him in somewhere and pretend it's interesting".

I HATE dubbed things. I mean, I can stand it if it's an animated show, but real people? Ugh. No matter how good it's supposed to be, I can't bring myself to watch it. Plus, a lot of Kate's chram is her voice. You can't take that away!

Oh, but it's fun to be mean to them a little self-doubt didn't kill anyone yet.

KyleCapeside

The romances are one of the key things about this show, they don't make it easy on any character to be together, which would have been boring if they had.

The dubbed version is weak, I hate dubbing as well, a line in one of my favorite movies is dubbed and every time I see Dazed and Confuzed I look for it and I hate it, I know when it comes and it is no where near his voice.

wolkenfuehlen

They dub everything when they air it here in Germany, so the only way to watch it for me back then on tv was the dubbed version. I haven't seen it dubbed ever since though. Thank God! I hate dubbing.

Definitely. And as an episode writer, if you can't think of any other storyline for them, you just send them on a date, or let them deal with relationship-y issues. With Will they always had to invent other stories.


That is like the best YA summary ever.

White_Lily

Thank you!

KyleCapeside

I was born in Augsburg, Bavaria, Germany just thought i would throw that out there

I really wish that Will had gotten the chance to just come clean about the test rather than being heard telling Scout, which is where he messed up first, talking about it.

White_Lily

Do you really think he would've? I'm not sure. I mean, to me it seemed he was upset mainly because he was afraid it would backfire on him, not because he had actually thought it was wrong. As I said before, I somehow got the feeling that he thought it was okay for him to cheat, on some level, because he "deserved" it.

KyleCapeside

I think he would have eventually on the level that his teacher really believed in him. Sitting on the boat when his teacher/coach points out his test score being the 3rd highest ever? And he was so quick to tell Scout he was asking to get caught. But on the other hand he seems like the type to never come clean to an authority figure.