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Old 08-26-2014, 10:15 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by Robber's Daughter (View Post)
Yes, the heir thing was a big one. Pretty much the heart and core of the story. Once gone, it didn't leave much. However, I may be mean to Fellowes but I do think he is a lazy writer sometimes. He had plenty of time to come up with an exit for Matthew as dan rejected the continuation when they were starting filming and most probably had conversations regarding it even earlier - no producer will wait till the beginning of the shooting. I also found the writing for the character not so good from one point on. I would expect a self-respecting actor to not be very happy with same five lines in a whole season, so... I expected some outburst, though didn't want to believe it would be so... drastic.

Another problem for me was the lazy writing re: Mary's suitors in season 4. I felt Fellowes rushed this and didn't give the characters chance to develop, so the public can understand WHY Mary would like this one or another. Some men were thrown in the mix with zero motivation and development. Matthew and Mary made sense because they had time to show us how they warmed up to each other, how they dealed with obstacles, how they faced challenges to their love and finally made a decision. These new suitors just came to ask Mary to marry them (or at least thinking about it)... Huh. Lazy writing.
I agree, it was lazy writing. I know they keep telling fans that Dan's exit gave them more stories to explore but imo, they didn't forsee Matthew being gone in this series this early. The challenge was for JF to write how Mary should move on and if she will entertain anyone after her husband's death. Because the show only has 9 eps (including the CS), the writer has the dilemma to tell everything in such a short time. I felt that JF had time to really think about M/M. in S1-S3 but after that he didn't exactly know what to do anymore and just wrote what he thinks is probably the best story for Mary moving forward.

Quote:
Originally Posted by courtneybangelcakes (View Post)
Please add me! I'm currently in the middle of S3 for the first and oh how I love this show. Unfortunately, I know what happens to Matthew, but I'm still adoring every moment between Matthew/Mary. They have the most beautiful scenes together, Dan and Michelle play so well together. My favorite scene so far is either their proposal or before the wedding when they have that fight and Matthew comes to her room and apologizes and Matthew needs to kiss her, so they kiss with their eyes close Made me tear up. They're such a team.
Welcome and I've added you! Yes S3E1 had a lot of M/M stuff. I always re-watch that ep when I have the time. I love that scene by the door of Mary's room. That ep was just perfect for me.
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Old 08-27-2014, 05:46 AM
  #137
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I think Fellowes originally developed the whole thing for three seasons which is why everyone's contracts were for three seasons and which is more like British series, they don't go forever usually. Then the money started flowing and, of course, money talks, ratings talk, and Fellowes had to drag it. I think they will drag it for as long as it brings money and not in the best interest of the quality, as it usually happens. IMO, of course.

Hi courtneybangelcakes I'm also new here but obviously a big M/M fan and re-watching the first three seasons regularly. I actually love season 2 very much... I sometimes felt Matthew give way too much to Mary in season 3 and I was yelling at him. LOL
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Old 08-27-2014, 11:28 PM
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Yes, I think the show was only for 3 seasons and I wouldn't mind if it did end at S3 though. Maybe both Sybil & Matthew are alive if it ended early. Maybe from a producer's point of view it will be much better to extend it but even I wouldn't want the show to end after S3. I guess losing JBF and Dan is the price to pay for extending the show further. And that's the challenge for JF as writer.

It makes it hard for me to ship Mary with anyone on this show as I did heavily ship M/M and wanted them endgame but this is the situation we're in now. I have to partly blame Dan for that but there's really nothing that can be done. I heard JF and the EPs convinced him to stay but he really wanted to leave.
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Old 08-28-2014, 06:32 AM
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Well, you certainly do better than me, Lindsay. You at least can watch Mary with someone else now while I just lost interest completely. I'm not sorry, though. I liked the softer Mary, I liked how she grew up and developed as a character while around Matthew. Going backwards after he was gone was not my cup of tea, so in a way, you are doing much better than I did. I hope they offer you someone, as a character, whom you can welcome alongside Mary.
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Old 08-28-2014, 11:27 PM
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I guess it's because I love the show more than I love M/M. Tbh, period dramas isn't my thing. I watched this show mainly for Dame Maggie and since then I've loved it and the show has changed my perception about period dramas. This is my opinion but I think D.A. (in terms of writing) is still one of the best out there and there are a lot of really crappy shows right now. And I'm older so my preferences have changed too.
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Old 08-29-2014, 10:33 AM
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Thanks for the warm welcome

Well, I just finished S3 and UGH. Mary/Matthew were so incredible this season, they always are. Their final scene with their new baby was so beautiful and touching, I was crying - of course I knew what was coming. I think S3 was spectacular until episode 7 or 8...the last couple episodes felt very stiff for me. Bu I still loved it and watching them all. But it's so disappointing that Matthew is gone. And he just died...like that. There was hardly any closure. If I didn't know that Matthew had died, I wouldn't have even been sure because they just showed him bleeding in the road....like it wasn't 100% definite.

I'm sure there was a lot of behind the scenes drama, which is unfortunate I know Dan wanted to leave, but ugh what a horrible way to leave. Very disappointing.

I wonder how much I'll enjoy S4.
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Old 08-29-2014, 09:14 PM
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I also knew that Dan was leaving prior to the CS. The news of his departure came as early as February 2012 and S3 was going to premiere in the UK on September of that year. I didn't want to believe unconfirmed rumours but it wouldn't stop and he was also coy about plus he was doing theater and staying with his family in the U.S. So all the more reason that the rumours were true. So by the time the CS was shown, I was just waiting for the death scene.
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Old 08-30-2014, 08:36 AM
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I don't even know how I was able to survive his death. I managed to close out all the spoilers and stuff, which wasn't easy as S3 was shown here way later. So I had no idea what was going to happen. And honestly, after that I was so depressed for a while that I didn't wanna start S4. I was still in denial like, how could that happen? But I was curious about Mary and the baby's future so I decided to keep watching. It was still painful for a long time but little by little it got better..I'm still not over it but the show's got a lot more to offer, so..
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Old 08-30-2014, 02:13 PM
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Well, Dan (and not only him) wasn't very happy with Fellowes writing and refusal to allow actors to aprticipate in the process, so... It was expected, to a certain extend. I blame Fellowes mostly, not only because of the lazy writing (and some of it is truly very lazy) but also for the authoritative approach. Now, as I rewatched seasons 1-3 I couldn't help but notice moments of complete writing failure. He also can't write happiness or sadness for the life of him and tries to avoid it, leaving much off stage. Anyways, to me Matthew and Mary were a very important plot device, aside from the purely romantic appeal, and I am quite happy now, revisiting their first moments, seeing them longing and staying away... It's nice. But it's over, at the same time.
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Old 08-31-2014, 12:05 AM
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I don't even know how I was able to survive his death. I managed to close out all the spoilers and stuff, which wasn't easy as S3 was shown here way later. So I had no idea what was going to happen. And honestly, after that I was so depressed for a while that I didn't wanna start S4. I was still in denial like, how could that happen? But I was curious about Mary and the baby's future so I decided to keep watching. It was still painful for a long time but little by little it got better..I'm still not over it but the show's got a lot more to offer, so..
Yes, I was same as you. I was very sad, angry, bitter. This was my safe haven from everything when the S3 CS aired and as much as I try to understand and accept it, I just can't. Then my "mourning" stage was over and I was okay. By the time S4 arrived, I was ready and excited.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robber's Daughter (View Post)
Well, Dan (and not only him) wasn't very happy with Fellowes writing and refusal to allow actors to aprticipate in the process, so... It was expected, to a certain extend. I blame Fellowes mostly, not only because of the lazy writing (and some of it is truly very lazy) but also for the authoritative approach. Now, as I rewatched seasons 1-3 I couldn't help but notice moments of complete writing failure. He also can't write happiness or sadness for the life of him and tries to avoid it, leaving much off stage. Anyways, to me Matthew and Mary were a very important plot device, aside from the purely romantic appeal, and I am quite happy now, revisiting their first moments, seeing them longing and staying away... It's nice. But it's over, at the same time.
I'd have to politely disagree with S1/S2 writing, I really liked those seasons. S3 yes especially that Swire inheritance & Mary's baby problems (which were resolved quite easily). Maybe S2 (a bit) in the sense that Matthew recovers rather miraculously from what happened to him at war but overall the M/M moments that season were everything I wanted it to be.
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Old 08-31-2014, 05:40 AM
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Lindsay, I didn't mean bad writing for Matthew and Mary in the first seasons. I actually love them in the first seasons and think Fellowes did one of his best themes with them there. I meant failures in terms of writing for the show, in general. For me the first 3 seasons for Matthew and Mary were favorites (with few exceptions like the jumping of the wheelchair but that's not a deal breaker) and that's why I watch them again and again. But overall, there were plot and writing problems and I truly think Fellowes has major problems writing both happiness and deep sadness.
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Old 08-31-2014, 06:36 AM
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I felt it more with S3 especially in terms of how M/M was written. S3E1 started out strong and then after that ep it was just so-so. I didn't understand why Mary kept bugging Matthew about Lavinia's money. Yes I got that it should help Robert's money problems and he was being dramatic about it but then Robert's financial problems were not really cause for alarm because there was Lavinia's money to conveniently solve this. And the whole baby problem was introduced rather late and if Matthew will die, then they have to resolve it right away and that's exactly what happened.
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Old 09-01-2014, 06:07 AM
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I completely agree! I re-watched the season 2 Christmas special last night and season 3 episode 1 and it was so... well, happy, romantic, made sense, there was drama but there was also hope and light. Then as season 3 progressed I started feeling that Mary was not the same anymore... I mean, she was quite mean at times and her love was showing basically through some "now kiss me" in bed. During the day she was like a different person. I also felt a bit annoyed by Matthew's lines as he seemed to be spineless at times. I realize it is very difficult to write happiness but... writers are writers for a reason, after all. And I also agree in general about the minute made resolutions of problems. Without much development of the story arc there were more than one bam-bam and all is well moments in the series. Overall, Matthew and Mary made a lot of sense in terms of relationship in the first two seasons plus some of the season 3 episodes but sometimes in season 3 they looked to me like they never had been through what they had been in the previous seasons and like their marriage was another arranged one. And it made me sad.
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Old 09-01-2014, 11:07 PM
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Perhaps it was because of Dan's exit and JF had to do S3 SL for M/M in a jiffy but still, like what you said, writers are writers for a reason. Yes he was going to write off Matthew by the time the CS aired but I thought the whole Lavinia inheritance and the baby problems just didn't cut it for 7 eps. So the SLs felt rushed and forced to me. By the time the CS aired, I was even apologetic for taking all the M/M scenes for granted because we're never going to get them now.
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Old 09-02-2014, 04:39 PM
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It was rushed to me too. Not only this, though. I feel many plot lines were rushed. It may be because it's only 8 episodes and so many characters. That is why Matthew and Mary made so much sense when it had the time to develop. Uh, I miss them really. I keep re-watching and they had such a beautiful development. I loved them. Now when I re-watch, especially season 2, and I see what a huge difference Matthew brought to Mary, it makes my heart sing. It's my most favorite season, I think. Or is quickly becoming the most favorite (although I love the first episode of season 3 with the wedding!). Well... as matthew said once, we must accept this is the end. But it wasn't for them and I keep hoping for s movie.
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