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#61 | |||
New Fan
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 72
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Mary Crawley? Now you're talking my language.
I could write pages about her character but I'll keep it and concise as possible. On first impression, Mary is cold, distant ,sarcastic and likes to show an unmoved and hardened exterior. She is practical, pragmatic and does what needs to be done regardless of how she feels about it. She is extremely well bred, impeccably poised and carries herself with an elegant and arrogant hauteur typical of 'the perfect aristo lady'. In short, a true 'Lady of the Manor'. She keeps her feelings private and actual likes few people in her life. However she's very loyal to them and is capable of 'going out of her way' for them. She's a harsh realist but not too stubborn to change her own views if they are wrong. She can show flashes of intelligence only when she wants to but never to make a statement or to 'prove she's smart'. No, she plays demure until the time she needs to show she has claws. She loves male attention but also likes to be in control of whatever attraction she feels for the said male. Frankly for long time I never saw what Matthew saw in her. They are as opposite as can be. But like he said 'You are horrid but I love you anyway'! I'm sorry to add the rest of your post didn't make much sense to me.........but ok! No that's not accurate but you don't need to defend why you like or prefer Napier. My stand is too keep focus on the characters who ARE here, not those who aren't. Last edited by Sunshinebright; 10-02-2014 at 09:53 AM |
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#62 | |||
Extreme Fan
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,267
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I agree Mary can be compassionate and caring. However, she is not exceptionally so. Most people are compassionate and caring with those whom they love, as Mary is. But someone who is exceptionally so would behave that way with a wider circle of people, not just with a few. And Mary's caring side is offset by a self-centered, entitled side that is focused on her getting exactly what she wants. Sure, she's had to navigate a patriarchal society but so has every other woman of her time. And of course she would have loved that society to change so that she could get Downton. But did she do anything about it? Get involved in social justice causes, women's suffrage, progressive politics? No. More importantly, did she care about the rights of women in general or just about HER right to get Downton and how it was unfair that Matthew got it instead of her? It was unfair that Sybil and Edith didn't get it too. The whole system was unfair: unfair to the lower classes who were given so little chance to advance in life, unfair to women who couldn't vote, unfair to younger siblings (including hers) who couldn't inherit just because they were born later than the oldest. Mary is at the top of a very tall ladder. Not the highest rung, but pretty close. Closer than her sisters....but that never seemed to concern her. That they were never going to inherit Downton? She never gave it a thought. I don't feel sorry for Mary regarding the "patriarchal society" thing because that was just one aspect of the injustice of society in that time period. But she has never shown an interest in correcting those injustices, least of all the class system that keeps her on top. She is more than happy to let that stand because it benefits her. Mary dislikes the patriarchy primarily because it took Downton away from her. Not because of broader social principles or concern for everyone who is kept down because of an accident of birth. I am not saying she isn't aware of sexism and the problems that accompany it. She recognizes them and cares about them a bit, but not enough to really do anything about them. Her main problem with the patriarchy was always that it was unfair to HER because it kept her from inheriting the estate and the title. I don't really see how that makes her a more compassionate and caring person. As for the Sybil/Edith thing, I don't think it's "beside the point" that she was caring with Sybil but is the opposite with Edith. Sybil was easy to love: everyone loved her. That is precisely an example of how far Mary's warm, compassionate, loving side goes. She loved one of her sisters but she treats the other like dirt. It balances out to "neutral" on the compassion scale. Last edited by HarshBench; 10-02-2014 at 12:12 PM |
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#63 | |||
New Fan
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 72
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Agree with your post, HarshBench. That's all Mary - self-centered, self possessed and unapologetic. She loves her gilded cage and its trappings - wealth, privilege and position. She will NEVER run away 'to marry' anybody based on ideals but she might secretly admire those who had the courage to. But it's not for her.
Still she interests me the most. |
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#64 | |||
Dedicated Fan
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 709
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I agree with some of your analysis but certainly not all. She's a selfish person, I admit that, but she's also one of my favorite characters--because with Mary, nothing is simple. A lot of her caring actions are guided by her own interest but you could say that about anyone--because selflessness in and of itself is rare. I do think she's being ridiculous about Edith but that doesn't take away from the fact that she has shown compassion and can show compassion. I feel like that's the main argument for this idea that she's a horrible person. It isn't that black and white. The patriarchal society focus is something Fellowes tried to get us to sympathize with--it may not have worked for all of us as seen here, but that was the intention. In plain terms, Fellowes is Mary's baby and he's going to spoil her. __________________
Team Napier = "You have a very straightforward choice ahead of you. You can choose either death, or life."
"And you think I should choose life?" Evelyn = In Hebrew the meaning of the name Evelyn is: Life. |
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#65 | |||
New Fan
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 72
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I like to take everyone seriously but if you insist............. Quote:
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#66 | ||||||
Loyal Fan
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 1,200
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It's like saying that Mary has been (or was, if you think she's over him) keeping Charles around because she's unable to move on past Matthew. Do you think that's true? Because I don't. I think that Mary finds certain character traits attractive, and Matthew and Charles happen to embody some of those same traits. And I think that many viewers are attracted to Charles not because they find it "hard to let go" of a fictional character, but because that's the kind of TV character they generally gravitate towards. After all, it's not as if Matthew and M/M broke some kind of mold. They were two witty people who fell in love with each other in spite of their initial bickering and prejudices. Where have we seen that story before? Only everywhere! Quote:
I mean, when we take into account that Tony and Charles served in the war together, that means that Charles has insight into Tony that Mary might not necessarily have. I assumed that his warning was at least partially based on that knowledge. Quote:
I'm not counting Charles out yet. Quote:
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Anyway, I don't know that Mary's decision in 502 means that her heart is finished with Charles forever. As we saw with Matthew, sometimes Mary needs to lose something to realize how much she valued it. She hasn't lost Charles yet. If she were to lose him, how would she react? My guess is that she wouldn't take it well, and that's why I'm hoping JF goes there. __________________
"I understood why you're doing what you're doing. Why you told me when you did -- to save me." [emily&jack] | "You're my ride." [linden&holder] "Nobody could be that clever." "You could." [sherlock&john] | "Why do you wear the, uh, key chain I got you?" [emma&neal] "I'd say I believe in the future -- and so could you." [mary&charles] (tumblr.) |
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#67 | |||
Extreme Fan
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,267
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That doesn't mean she can't be compassionate and caring, of course. She can be. Although I think it tends to happen when it requires little to no sacrifice on her part, or even when she knows it will bear its own rewards for her. But frankly, I wouldn't mind all of this if Fellowes didn't adore and spoil her so much, because he does so as blatantly as her parents do and it doesn't do her or the story any favors IMO. And if she would treat her sister better I would like her better too. Because as much as Fellowes spoils Mary, he punishes Edith. Mary knows the vast disparity in their fortunes and she doesn't give a damn. She pours salt in the wound. That, to me, is antisocial behavior (in the clinical sense) and weighs heavily against her in my assessment of her character. |
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#68 | |||
Moderator Manager
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 704,278
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#69 | |||
Extreme Fan
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,267
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IDK, I used to like her okay....never love her, but go back and forth on her. But I think she regressed in S3 and since the S3 CS has been cemented as ....well, what I described above.
Now I no longer go back and forth. She's just on my bad side and always will be. I actually find her unpleasant to watch most of the time, or just tedious. |
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#70 | |||
Dedicated Fan
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 709
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The thing is, those aren't the only character traits Mary is attracted to. At this stage, she's more drawn to Gillingham because of his character traits. A guy like Matthew isn't the only sort of man she would be happy with--and the long and short of that is what Blake was saying with his whole "that would have worked in the last century". He's talking down to her by insinuating that she doesn't know what she's doing, as a woman, choosing to have a relationship with a man that isn't him--and he saw fit to insult that man to make himself look better. For all the comparison to Matthew, that's not something he did or would have done. It's not comparable to the Carlisle situation because he was concerned about her well-being and her happiness--Blake is only concerned with why she didn't choose him Fellowes isn't gonna make her crawl back to him because he was right about Tony being too dumb for her. Some people might find his arrogance attractive but arguably Mary doesn't. __________________
Team Napier = "You have a very straightforward choice ahead of you. You can choose either death, or life."
"And you think I should choose life?" Evelyn = In Hebrew the meaning of the name Evelyn is: Life. |
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#71 | |||
Moderator Manager
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 704,278
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At this point in the series, I'm interested about Mr. Drewe & Edith's SL. Will we see Bricker more? Because I like fresh faces on the show too just as long as they bring some needed SL progression for some characters.
I kind of want to root for Thomas to have a proper SL as well but it looks like this whole thing with Baxter/Molesley will linger on. I'm eager for more Violet/Isobel interaction too. This whole business with Lord Merton/Dr. Clarke is fun to watch (for me). Very lukewarm on Mary's love life drama as well as Tom/Sarah's friendship. Hoping too that Rose has a better SL this season. I'm also cautious about Bates/Anna and Daisy - which would probably mean with all this education, she's bound to leave Downton soon? __________________
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#72 | |||
Extreme Fan
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,495
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Wish I could summon up more interest in Mary's love life too, plus the Tom/Sarah situation, you're right Lindsay, Violet and Isobel scenes are much more entertaining to watch. |
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#73 | |||
Loyal Fan
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,398
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IMO he has so many different layers, he's absolutely fascinating and one of my absolute favourites. |
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#74 | ||||||
Loyal Fan
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 1,200
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Why? 1. In their first scene together, they only talked briefly, but Mary turned to give him another look as they departed. They didn't talk long enough for her to be intensely fascinated by his personality, but all she needed to be attracted to him physically was a look -- which she got. So it does seem to me like it's his face/body that hooked her. 2. Her reaction to what Charles said about sex and love struck me as very telling. I still feel like that's going to come into play later, and if it does I think it'll be bad for Tony. Quote:
Is that man Tony? I personally don't think so. You think Evelyn could be that kind of man. Maybe, but like I've said, I'd need more evidence of that. I do think Charles, of the three suitors we've seen, is the one who's "brain she finds most entertaining," as JF said. Is that the ONLY thing she needs to make her happy? No. I think she needs other things, like loyalty, passion, a sense of humor... But I do think "he has to be an interesting guy" is somewhere at the top of the list. Quote:
Charles is just blunter about certain things than Matthew was. Quote:
But that's not the only way this story could play out happily for Mary/Charles. Quote:
__________________
"I understood why you're doing what you're doing. Why you told me when you did -- to save me." [emily&jack] | "You're my ride." [linden&holder] "Nobody could be that clever." "You could." [sherlock&john] | "Why do you wear the, uh, key chain I got you?" [emma&neal] "I'd say I believe in the future -- and so could you." [mary&charles] (tumblr.) |
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#75 | |||
Extreme Fan
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,495
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I've no doubt in tomorrow's episode he'll have it in for Baxter, and or Moseley. |
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