[girl under the floor]

If Travis or Melody run into Tank, the writers probably will find a way for them to befriend Tank, too.

I'm sorry, it's not funny at all, but you made me laugh with this Amy
It's so sad that it made me laugh.



I want Emmett to become a good guy "again". I say "again", because like you, Amy, I believe the writers just destroyed his character.
I do get that a character can come to a point where enough is enough, and they're just done. But Emmett not standing by Bay seemed out of character.
Emmett regressed. And he regressed fast The Emmett I knew and loved seemed gone

I want to love Emmett again!

[~AnastasiaGrey~]

Originally Posted by girl under the floor (View Post) I'm sorry, it's not funny at all, but you made me laugh with this Amy It's so sad that it made me laugh. I want Emmett to become a good guy "again". I say "again", because like you, Amy, I believe the writers just destroyed his character. I do get that a character can come to a point where enough is enough, and they're just done. But Emmett not standing by Bay seemed out of character. Emmett regressed. And he regressed fast The Emmett I knew and loved seemed gone I want to love Emmett again!

Yeah it was out of character because he of all people should know what it was like to mess up.

[ollibear]

Originally Posted by ~AnastasiaGrey~ (View Post) Yeah it was out of character because he of all people should know what it was like to mess up.

But you know, when Emmett learned what it was like to mess up, Bay made him wait for two years, before she opened the door to him again. Maybe Emmett thinks that's what a person is supposed to do, when their partner messes up. Maybe Emmett thinks he is supposed to have time to heal.

And why shouldn't Emmett get that?

To me, it seems like that is what Emmett was hoping for, from Bay, on the beach. With their relationship in such a shambles and his feelings for her strained, why would Emmett want Bay to move in with him? That's a huge step (living together), and it's not as though they would have been living together in KC, where if they have an argument, Bay can just run home to her parents' house. Bay & Emmett would have been living together in LA, where he was going to a school in which no one even speaks his language.

Emmett had a lot of pressure on him. Bay is the one who pushed him to go to that school. It makes sense that he would want to focus on it and do well, especially given how expensive he said the tuition is.

Asking Emmett to support Bay in her emotionally fragile state and to succeed in school would have been too much for almost any nineteen year old. Why would any couple want to move in together for the first time, when their relationship is so rocky?

Emmett asked Bay for time to focus on school. He didn't say that their relationship was over forever. He really only said that he was no longer ready for her to move in with him. And considering that she had been partying with her ex-boyfriend, I don't think that's too extreme of a request. They weren't ready to move in together. That should be something that is done from a stable place, with joy. Moving in together shouldn't be a last ditch effort to save a dying relationship. Bay has never lived anywhere but in her parents mansion and her bio-dad's ritzy apartment. Emmett would have felt a tremendous responsibility to have Bay living with him, so far away from her parents' home.

I don't think it's unreasonable that Emmett (a 19 year old) didn't want to take on that responsibility, considering all that he had on his plate at school and the fact that Bay had not been all that loyal to their relationship.

[girl under the floor]

But when Emmett messed up, HE was the one to say that They could overcome this.
So why doesn't he then think the same thing when she messes up?
You can view it that he models after what Bay did; making her wait, not forgiving her.
But it you could also view it that he should stay true to his character; convincing the both of us that they can overcome it.

Also, I do realize that Bay herself viewed it differently, that Bay herself was the one who told Emmett; 'hey, there's a grey area here.' Doesn't change to me that it's an entirely different situation.

Whilst I am all for holding a person responsible, even when they're drunk; Emmett made a clear-cut mistake. Bay did not
Opinions on that are going to differ, that's okay I'm just voicing mine

I'm also by no means saying that I think that Emmett should've continue with the relationship the way it is. I think that if he had said that he needed time, if he had been clear about That; that it was not his intention to break up with her (because he did say, "Maybe you should come over here after graduation"), that Bay would've reacted differently. He basically gave up. I really don't do well with that line of him either "We shouldn't be working to make it work. It should just. . . . work. No. That's not how life works, that's not how relationships work. Sure, they do for some people, I'm not saying it never does. But for the most of us, our relationships need work, maintenance, we need to make it work.
I don't think it's unreasonable at all that 19-year-old Emmett was not ready for the responsibility. I think it was unreasonable that after months of them not really talking to each other, he just seemed to give up.

[~AnastasiaGrey~]

Originally Posted by girl under the floor (View Post) But when Emmett messed up, HE was the one to say that They could overcome this. So why doesn't he then think the same thing when she messes up? You can view it that he models after what Bay did; making her wait, not forgiving her. But it you could also view it that he should stay true to his character; convincing the both of us that they can overcome it. Also, I do realize that Bay herself viewed it differently, that Bay herself was the one who told Emmett; 'hey, there's a grey area here.' Doesn't change to me that it's an entirely different situation. Whilst I am all for holding a person responsible, even when they're drunk; Emmett made a clear-cut mistake. Bay did not Opinions on that are going to differ, that's okay I'm just voicing mine I'm also by no means saying that I think that Emmett should've continue with the relationship the way it is. I think that if he had said that he needed time, if he had been clear about That; that it was not his intention to break up with her (because he did say, "Maybe you should come over here after graduation"), that Bay would've reacted differently. He basically gave up. I really don't do well with that line of him either "We shouldn't be working to make it work. It should just. . . . work. No. That's not how life works, that's not how relationships work. Sure, they do for some people, I'm not saying it never does. But for the most of us, our relationships need work, maintenance, we need to make it work. I don't think it's unreasonable at all that 19-year-old Emmett was not ready for the responsibility. I think it was unreasonable that after months of them not really talking to each other, he just seemed to give up.

Yeah that is how I saw it too

[ollibear]

Originally Posted by girl under the floor (View Post) Whilst I am all for holding a person responsible, even when they're drunk; Emmett made a clear-cut mistake. Bay did not Opinions on that are going to differ, that's okay I'm just voicing mine

I love hearing opposing opinions! I am not trying to persuade anyone to share my point of view. I just like comparing and contrasting.

As for Bay "not" making a clear-cut mistake, I do not even factor in the sex that happened between Bay and Tank (the gray part). When I analyze the situation, I am only looking at Bay's choices before the sex with Tank occurred, and to me, Bay made a number of clear-cut mistakes with Tank.

I am not one to condemn cheaters or to be bothered by cheating of any variety. If I was Emmett, then Bay's choices with Tank would not bother me. And if I was Bay, Emmett's choices with Simone would not bother me.

But if I was going to be upset by a partner's infidelity, then emotional cheating would bother (and threaten) me more than sexual cheating.

Emmett did not emotionally cheat on Bay with Simone. It was just sex.

Whereas Bay did emotionally cheat on Emmett with Tank. Bay relied on Tank. She needed him throughout her second relationship with Emmett. Tank became Bay's confidante for some of her innermost secrets. I feel that is more threatening to a relationship, than a night of drunken sex.

That's probably different from how some people feel, but that's my viewpoint.

Originally Posted by girl under the floor (View Post) But when Emmett messed up, HE was the one to say that They could overcome this. So why doesn't he then think the same thing when she messes up?

Because when people cheat, it is their job to convince their partners that they still care. Often times, people cheat to end a relationship. It's their way of saying, "I break up with you." If the cheater doesn't try to convince his or her partner that the relationship still matters, then the person cheated on knows the relationship is over.

When Bay first told Emmett that she had slept with Tank, I think that's what he thought: "Well, the other shoe has finally dropped, and she is breaking up with me. She chose to send me here to USC, so far away from home, by myself, and now, she is breaking up with me."

Remember, they had been fighting when he had visited just a few days earlier. Bay asked Emmett questions like, "Who are you?" and she told him, "It doesn't feel the same."

She wasn't happy with him. He knew it. And then, immediately following their argument, Bay goes off to a dorm party at Daphne's college and sleeps with her last boyfriend.

Of course, Emmett thought that Bay was calling to let him down gently, to break up with him. Why else would she be telling him this horrible information so kindly? Why else would Bay have done what she did (in Emmett's mind)?

So that's why Emmett doesn't think the same thing ("We are bigger than a mistake") when Bay messes up. Emmett doesn't think that it is a mistake. He thinks that Bay meant to do it and that she is ending things with him. If that's the case, he's out of there. Emmett isn't going to stick around for that. He already felt abandoned by his father. He isn't going to sit quietly, while Bay does it to him, too. Emmett has no interest in begging Bay to not break up with him. He has too much pride.

That's why Emmett cut off communication with Bay and invited Skye over to his dorm room to watch a movie. Emmett didn't want to listen to Bay's explanation. It hurt too much to consider the likely possibility that she might be breaking up with him. In that moment, Emmett just wanted to shut the door to all of that pain and move on with his life.

But then Daphne let Emmett know her perspective on what occurred, and after that, Bay shared the whole story with Emmett. She told him that her sex with Tank was just a stupid, drunken mistake.

When Emmett returned to LA, after the fight in the rainstorm, and after Bay had shared every intimate detail that she could remember, about what really happened between her and Tank, Emmett STILL told Skye, "Bay and I didn't break up. We are just giving each other space."

I do think Emmett thought the same thing ("We are bigger than a mistake"), after he realized that Bay just messed up and that she wasn't breaking up with him. I do think that Emmett still believed he and Bay were meant to be. But Emmett needed time to heal and to feel secure in Bay's love again. Something like what happened between Bay and Tank shakes a person's belief. Emmett needed Bay to show him she still cared, especially after she had shut him out of so much of what was going on in her head, and especially after she had turned to Tank time and time again.

Long ago, at Blue River Road, when Emmett told Bay that they could overcome his one mistake, he also told Bay, "I'll wait, however long it takes, until I can figure it out." [Emmett was referring to figuring out how to glue the fabric of their relationship back together again.]

And yet, when Bay surprised Emmett on the beach, and he told her that he wasn't ready to move in with her, that he still needed time, Bay said, "No, you do this now. It's done. It's forever." That's a far cry from Emmett's contrition, in the same situation. Bay did not feel Emmett was worth the wait. She did not want to take the time to figure out how to repair the fabric. Bay kept telling Emmett she made mistakes, but she never apologized for them or tried to make amends.

Maybe that is why Emmett started to feel as though he had to let her go. Maybe that is why Emmett doubted if they are still bigger than a mistake. Bay did an inadequate job of showing Emmett that her feelings for him are sincere.

Originally Posted by girl under the floor (View Post) You can view it that he models after what Bay did; making her wait, not forgiving her. But it you could also view it that he should stay true to his character; convincing the both of us that they can overcome it.

I do think Emmett was staying true to his character. He hadn't given up hope on their relationship. He said that their time apart didn't have to be forever.

Bay didn't say anything like that to Emmett, when he apologized for cheating on her. At the time, she gave Emmett no hope whatsoever, and still, he held on.

Whereas, Emmett gave Bay hope for their future on the beach, and she wasn't willing to wait any length of time. Instead, Bay told Emmett that either she moves in with him immediately, or it was over forever between them. (It's ironic considering Emmett had just been forced to wait a year for her, and if the judge had given Bay the full three year sentence, then she would have expected him to wait "a few years" for her.)

A long time ago, when Emmett cheated, he knew that he still cared about Bay, and he was willing to take time and prove that to her. Now, when Bay cheats (at the very least, emotionally cheats), she doesn't apologize and isn't willing to take the same time to show Emmett that she still cares.

Originally Posted by girl under the floor (View Post) Also, I do realize that Bay herself viewed it differently, that Bay herself was the one who told Emmett; 'hey, there's a grey area here.' Doesn't change to me that it's an entirely different situation.

There is only a gray area about the sex, because Bay has no memory of whether she wanted to go all the way with Tank or not. But Bay does remember, and she does know, that she wanted to do all of the other things she did with Tank that were inappropriate and most definitely within the realm of cheating, especially when done with an ex-boyfriend, to whom she had been emotionally close.

If Bay had done all of those things at the dorm party with a complete stranger, it would have still been disloyal to her relationship with Emmett, but it would not have been nearly as much of a betrayal as doing them with her ex-boyfriend.

Bay flirted with Tank. She made goo-goo eyes at him. Bay chose to knowingly and willingly sit on Tank's lap and let him put his hands all over her body, even along her inner thighs. She ground her bottom into his crotch. The other female in the chair races was sitting on her partner's lap, too, but they weren't doing anything like that. Bay shared her innermost fears with Tank about her health problems, but she could not tell Emmett. Bay shared her relationship problems with Emmett, with her ex-boyfriend Tank. That disclosure is such a huge betrayal of her relationship with Emmett. Tank has not seen Emmett, since all of this occurred, but that one decision by Bay gave Tank all sorts of ammunition to use against Emmett, if he ever so desires. Tank could taunt Emmett with his knowledge of Emmett's private relationship with Bay. Intuitively, Emmett knows this, even if Tank chooses not to use the information. The damage is done.

I agree with you that Emmett's cheating and Bay's "cheating" are entirely different situations, but I don't agree with you in how they are different.

I feel that Bay's betrayal was of greater significance than Emmett's. His cheating was a sexual act, with no meaning or importance behind it. Her cheating (even without the sex) was still both a physical and an emotional act. Bay's interactions with Tank had deep meaning and importance behind them to her. Bay shared secrets of her innermost soul with Tank, while she was being overtly sexual with him.

Emmett didn't do any of that with Simone.

Originally Posted by girl under the floor (View Post) I'm also by no means saying that I think that Emmett should've continue with the relationship the way it is. I think that if he had said that he needed time, if he had been clear about That; that it was not his intention to break up with her (because he did say, "Maybe you should come over here after graduation"), that Bay would've reacted differently. He basically gave up. I really don't do well with that line of him either "We shouldn't be working to make it work. It should just. . . . work. No. That's not how life works, that's not how relationships work. Sure, they do for some people, I'm not saying it never does. But for the most of us, our relationships need work, maintenance, we need to make it work.

From my perspective, Emmett did say he needed time. He was clear with Bay about that.

I didn't see Emmett as giving up. I saw him as saying that his feelings for Bay had shifted, and he no longer felt ready to move in with her. If I had been Bay, my boyfriend's feelings would have mattered to me. I would not want to move in with him, unless he was ready, too.

Bay probably did fear Emmett was breaking up with her, but he wasn't saying, "It's over forever between us. There is no hope." Instead, he was saying, "I need to focus on school right now to ensure my future, and I am not ready for such a big commitment in our relationship, too."

If I had been Bay, I would have respected that. It wouldn't have been easy. It would have been scary and painful. But I would have wanted to give us the best possible chance that I could, and so I would have respected his feelings and gone on with my life.

As for Emmett's line, "We shouldn't have to make it work. It should just work," I agree with him. Bay told Daphne that she kept trying to "make it work" with Tank, and it just never did. That's because no one can force feelings.

Feelings either exist, or they don't. And it's true that feelings can come and go like the tide. In a relationship, people shouldn't give up, when the feelings disappear. They should keep doors open. I didn't see Emmett closing any doors. He wasn't giving up. He just didn't want to force himself to feel something that he didn't feel. He wanted to wait and see if the feelings returned.

Doing what Bay did with Tank (dating him, but not really feeling anything for him) usually leads to disaster. I am glad Emmett didn't make that mistake with Bay.

Emmett needed time to heal. I know Bay was anxious, and maybe she didn't even want a relationship with Emmett anymore, but if she did, she needed to give him that time. No good could ever come out of forcing the situation.

Originally Posted by girl under the floor (View Post) I don't think it's unreasonable at all that 19-year-old Emmett was not ready for the responsibility. I think it was unreasonable that after months of them not really talking to each other, he just seemed to give up.

Emmett left for LA in early September. Bay visited LA in early December. At the beginning of their time apart, Emmett tried texting and video calls, but Bay had cell phone troubles. Emmett tried visiting for Fall Break. But Bay felt insecure over how happy he was at school, and they fought.

When Emmett tried to reconnect with Bay after their fight, she told him what she had done with Tank. Emmett visited Bay again. And although he didn't want to listen to all of the details, he did.

After that, I don't think talking to Bay felt good anymore. I think it hurt Emmett too much. The wound was too raw for more talking at that time. If Emmett wanted to succeed in school, he needed to cut off that kind of pain.

After everything that had happened between them, since their first time making love under the stars (with the shadow of Tank hanging over them), I think Emmett truly doubted the sincerity of Bay's love for him.

If Bay wanted to talk to Emmett and reopen the lines of communication between them, I think she needed to give him time to heal. Bay needed to show Emmett that he is worth the wait.

[girl under the floor]

I love hearing opposing opinions! I am not trying to persuade anyone to share my point of view. I just like comparing and contrasting.

Will respond to the post later, it's very late for me and I've been out all day, but just wanted to say:
You know it's the same for me right? I like discussing! And I like it almost even better when you don't fully agree with each other
(And it still stays clean and respectful which it does!)

You write so compelling though that most of the time I have my opinion. Then I read all of your arguments and I'm just like: 'okay, she's right'.

[ollibear]

Originally Posted by girl under the floor (View Post) Will respond to the post later, it's very late for me and I've been out all day, but just wanted to say: You know it's the same for me right? I like discussing! And I like it almost even better when you don't fully agree with each other (And it still stays clean and respectful which it does!)

I do know that it's the same for you! And I love discussing this stuff with you so much.

Thank you for being such a good friend. It is fun when we disagree. I read your posts, and I find myself wanting to take the opposing view point along with you and showcasing all of the evidence the supports that point of view, too. I can't help myself!

Maybe that's one of the reasons I love this TV series so much. Like life, there is not just one way to see things. Each character has a legitimate point of view, and he or she is right, in his or her own way.

Originally Posted by girl under the floor (View Post) You write so compelling though that most of the time I have my opinion. Then I read all of your arguments and I'm just like: 'okay, she's right'.

I need to rein myself in, but it is so hard for me to do! I would have loved to have been a trial lawyer. No one likes lawyers, though, so I need to be careful!

I have zero control when it comes to running my mouth, especially about characters I love.

And I do love Bay & Emmett. I'm going to miss them so much.

I see Bay & Emmett, in the same way Wilbur saw Charlotte, in Charlotte's Web:

"Wilbur never forgot Charlotte. Although he loved her children and grandchildren dearly, none of the new spiders ever quite took her place in his heart. She was in a class by herself. It is not often that someone comes along who is a true friend and a good writer. Charlotte was both."

Bay & Emmett are in a class by themselves. No one else will ever quite take their place in my heart.

[~AnastasiaGrey~]

Its okay thats the fun part of debating lol

[ollibear]

I love Emmett. Whether I watch him in the TV series, or see those clips of him in this music video that is set to a sad song, I find myself feeling every emotion Emmett feels.

In social media, a lot of fans condemn Emmett. I see his point of view as clearly as if it was my own. Every mistake he has made is a mistake I would have made, too, in his situation. I feel certain Emmett was always doing the best that he knew how to do.

I love this new video that Gil just made about Emmett. It's beautiful.

[~AnastasiaGrey~]

Originally Posted by ollibear (View Post) I love Emmett. Whether I watch him in the TV series, or see those clips of him in this music video that is set to a sad song, I find myself feeling every emotion Emmett feels. In social media, a lot of fans condemn Emmett. I see his point of view as clearly as if it was my own. Every mistake he has made is a mistake I would have made, too, in his situation. I feel certain Emmett was always doing the best that he knew how to do. I love this new video that Gil just made about Emmett. It's beautiful.

Yeah especially given how he been feeling recently

[girl under the floor]

Thanks for that vid Amy
And sorry for not responding to the post, sometimes it's just too much

[~AnastasiaGrey~]

Originally Posted by girl under the floor (View Post) Thanks for that vid Amy And sorry for not responding to the post, sometimes it's just too much

Well take a little out of time sometimes I do that

[ollibear]

Originally Posted by girl under the floor (View Post) Thanks for that vid Amy And sorry for not responding to the post, sometimes it's just too much

I understand, Paula. I have been taking time to heal my heart, too. Everything about this show breaks me.

I want so much to send you those quotes. I am hopeful that I will do it tonight, but facing them is painful. We'll see. I need to go make dinner for my daughter first. (Well, if I can make dinner. Since my back won't let me stand up straight, Eve made our breakfast for us, and I gave her the instructions from the kitchen table. Eve might be making us dinner, too. )

I read so much hatred for Emmett in social media that I imagine everyone feels that way about him here and everywhere else, too.

I forget that someone out there (besides me) might still like Emmett. Even when I see evidence of it, on the Bay and Emmett thread, I don't really believe it.

The writers have done such a hatchet job on Emmett's character, and I know that I still love him, but I consider myself to be a loony, a crazy person.

No one with a rational mind could still like Emmett. Right?

Maybe the writers believe that Emmett's depression will make all of his past sins forgivable, but it doesn't do that for me.

I had not believed that Emmett had made any mistakes. In my mind, he did his best with any and every situation, as it came to him.

But now that Emmett is telling everyone he has made all of these mistakes and he has so much regret and remorse for the awful things he has done, well, now I have to find a way to forgive him.

I don't think I can. Depression doesn't cut it for me. It's not an excuse for the things that Emmett has done.

On Switched at Birth, I have always seen everything through Emmett's eyes. Now that Emmett hates himself, I find myself hating him, too. I hope Emmett seeks help and learns to like himself again soon, so I can like him again, too.

I wish the writers had not used the depression to excuse Emmett's past behavior. It doesn't work for me. I miss L.A. Emmett. I loved him.

When Daphne and Bay found Emmett at Carlton, and Emmett lamented that everyone must hate him now, Daphne said "You just lost yourself out there, but we're here to help you get back," I cringed. Emmett didn't lose himself in L.A. He was doing well in school. He let go of an unhealthy relationship with Bay, in favor of trying something new with Skye. He was trusting people, including his professors, interacting in the hearing world, and taking risks. Those things were positive.

I don't want Emmett to "get back" to the person he was in Kansas City. That Emmett was passive aggressive. He cheated on Bay. He frequently disrespected his mom and dad. He didn't do well in school. He wasn't a good friend to Daphne. He avoided interacting with hearing people or taking risks. He spent most of his time moping.

I feel as though Daphne helping Emmett "get back" to his old self will stunt his growth.

I miss L.A. Emmett, and I am sorry things turned sour for him there. I feel as though his life will never be as good as it was during his freshman year of college.

I still cannot believe that Emmett told Skye things will never be as good as they were during high school. Emmett was miserable in high school. He was lonely. He thought about dropping out. He fought with his mother and father constantly. He didn't have any friends. He was catfished and bullied by Matthew. He and Bay treated each other poorly, during the short time they were together.

Most of the time, Emmett was eating pineapple out of a can and playing video games, while trying to avoid visitation with his father and fighting with his mother.

If those are Emmett's good ol' days, he has problems.

[girl under the floor]

I still feel for him
And I still hope that at the end of the series, he's a version of Emmett I'll love