[Slayerfan714]

True!

Whatever happened to Smak?

[Slayerfan714]

Bumping this because I wonder if Tess and Bay are a Zarra and Bay redux. Any thoughts?

Or are Tess and Bay a Natalie-Bay redux?

I kind of want to start a discussion about Bay and her female friends. Bay's been friends with Simone, Zarra, Mary Beth, and Natalie.

All different friendships and all different personality types. I am just curious what to make of Bay's very different female friendships.

[AnneH]

Idk. I don't test Tess yet. It could go the zarra route where bay puts trust in her and then ends up getting screwed over and in even more trouble.

[ollibear]

Originally Posted by Slayerfan714 (View Post) Bumping this because I wonder if Tess and Bay are a Zarra and Bay redux. Any thoughts? Or are Tess and Bay a Natalie-Bay redux? I kind of want to start a discussion about Bay and her female friends. Bay's been friends with Simone, Zarra, Mary Beth, and Natalie. All different friendships and all different personality types. I am just curious what to make of Bay's very different female friendships.

Good discussion topic! And let's throw Daphne into the mix, too, because in some ways, she has been a friend to Bay.

Simone and Bay probably had the most in common, and I feel Simone could be a good friend to Bay now, with the growth Simone has experienced, but because of the depth of the betrayal, twice, that will never happen, nor should it.

Zarra and Bay had chemistry, and although Zarra is a user, she was good for Bay in some ways. Zarra broadened Bay's perspective on life, and they shared some good times together. It never could have lasted continuously, though, because Zarra is someone who will always use Bay. They might have sporadic meaningful connections throughout their life, though, if Zarra ever makes it back to KC.

Mary Beth has some good qualities, and there is a sweetness to her friendship with Bay, but I have always sensed that Mary Beth is jealous of Bay and doesn't always have Bay's best interest at heart. Sometimes Mary Beth is able to be generous of spirit with Bay, and other times she isn't. Bottom line, Mary Beth's loyalty is not 100% with Bay. She is good to Bay, but her real loyalty rested with Ty, and sometimes rests with herself. Bay is a friend, but their bond is not that deep.

Natalie likes Bay, and the two girls operate with a similar moral code. That's good. I feel like they could share a deep bond, if Bay moved more into the Deaf community. What does everyone think might be a reason why Natalie and Bay have not formed a closer friendship? Do you think it's simply because Bay spent most of her free time with Emmett and Natalie spent most of her free time with Hilary? Is it because of the two different cultures? is it something else? I like that Natalie stood up for Bay during the uprising at Carlton. And I like that Natalie was intuitive enough to recognize that Bay was attracted to Noah early in the game. I believe Natalie also recognized Bay & Emmett's strong feelings for each other. I'd like more scenes between the three of them.

As for Daphne and Bay, have we ever seen them have fun together? The closest to fun that I can remember is when they played pool together with Nacho and his brother. They had a nice sisterly chat, when Bay was nervous about sleeping with Ty. Have Daphne and Bay ever shared another meaningful moment together, in the entirety of the series?

I really hope Bay does not ever consider a friendship with Tess. That would be a nightmare waiting to happen. Tess is not able to be a friend to anyone, until she gains some security in her personal life. Bay being friends with Tess would be like trying to help someone who is drowning, with no life preserver. At this point, Tess's desperation will cause her to pull Bay down under the water with her. No good can come out of a friendship like that.

Natalie is my favorite friend for Bay, and then, I actually put Zarra ahead of Mary Beth. Zarra is a user, but she takes advantage of Bay in a way that is honest and forthright. Mary Beth fakes a loyalty that isn't there, and to me, that's dangerous.

Simone and Daphne, because of the depth of their betrayal, and Tess, because of her extreme desperation, do not make my friendship list for Bay at all.

[Slayerfan714]

Originally Posted by Amy Good discussion topic! And let's throw Daphne into the mix, too, because in some ways, she has been a friend to Bay.

Good point!

Simone and Bay probably had the most in common, and I feel Simone could be a good friend to Bay now, with the growth Simone has experienced, but because of the depth of the betrayal, twice, that will never happen, nor should it.

I do think they had a lot in common due to their backgrounds and I do think Simone was embarrassed and ashamed after sleeping with Emmett. I did like how she didn't judge Bay after the stealing of the money. Not that Bay wasn't wrong, but I wasn't a fan of what either John or Kathryn said to her. And in that moment, I did see sincerity with Simone. However, like you, I don't think they could or even should go back to being friends.

Zarra and Bay had chemistry, and although Zarra is a user, she was good for Bay in some ways. Zarra broadened Bay's perspective on life, and they shared some good times together. It never could have lasted continuously, though, because Zarra is someone who will always use Bay. They might have sporadic meaningful connections throughout their life, though, if Zarra ever makes it back to KC.

I understood why Bay was attracted to a friend like Zarra, but I feel the way you do. Zarra, although broadening Bay's perspective, was too much of a user. And a friendship like that, if it did last, would only do more harm to Bay.

Mary Beth has some good qualities, and there is a sweetness to her friendship with Bay, but I have always sensed that Mary Beth is jealous of Bay and doesn't always have Bay's best interest at heart. Sometimes Mary Beth is able to be generous of spirit with Bay, and other times she isn't. Bottom line, Mary Beth's loyalty is not 100% with Bay. She is good to Bay, but her real loyalty rested with Ty, and sometimes rests with herself. Bay is a friend, but their bond is not that deep.

I liked Mary Beth at first. I still like her, but I don't always feel she has Bay's best interests at heart. I will always view the Ty lie as messed up. Was it noble? Maybe, but it was also cowardly and hurtful and I thought Mary Beth saw that at first. Maybe she did and just felt what Tank did was worse and wanted to prove that Ty was better. I don't know. We haven't seen much of their friendship since season 3. Bay did say Mary Beth was her friend when Daphne kissed Travis, but beyond that, nothing.

Natalie likes Bay, and the two girls operate with a similar moral code. That's good. I feel like they could share a deep bond, if Bay moved more into the Deaf community. What does everyone think might be a reason why Natalie and Bay have not formed a closer friendship? Do you think it's simply because Bay spent most of her free time with Emmett and Natalie spent most of her free time with Hilary? Is it because of the two different cultures? is it something else? I like that Natalie stood up for Bay during the uprising at Carlton. And I like that Natalie was intuitive enough to recognize that Bay was attracted to Noah early in the game. I believe Natalie also recognized Bay & Emmett's strong feelings for each other. I'd like more scenes between the three of them.

I guess it's just because they are living separate lives at the moment. Natalie and Bay seem fond of each other. I'm sure if they have scenes, they'll be friendly.

As for Daphne and Bay, have we ever seen them have fun together? The closest to fun that I can remember is when they played pool together with Nacho and his brother. They had a nice sisterly chat, when Bay was nervous about sleeping with Ty. Have Daphne and Bay ever shared another meaningful moment together, in the entirety ofthe series?

Not really. The pool and Nikki's bachelorette party but that turned out to be a bit of a disaster with Nikki drunk dialing Coto. They haven't ever really had fun together.

I really hope Bay does not ever consider a friendship with Tess. That would be a nightmare waiting to happen. Tess is not able to be a friend to anyone, until she gains some security in her personal life. Bay being friends with Tess would be like trying to help someone who is drowning, with no life preserver. At this point, Tess's desperation will cause her to pull Bay down under the water with her. No good can come out of a friendship like that.

Yes, I agree with this. Tess is in no position to be a friend. But for some reason, they like telling other character's stories through Bay and I just got the impression they have this whole background for Tess to make her sympathetic and that will only happen if she interacts more with Bay.

Natalie is my favorite friend for Bay, and then, I actually put Zarra ahead of Mary Beth. Zarra is a user, but she takes advantage of Bay in a way that is honest and forthright. Mary Beth fakes a loyalty that isn't there, and to me, that's dangerous.

That's an interesting perspective. I guess I'd have to say Natalie too even though the way they started wasn't great. But I did appreciate her wanting to keep Bay at Carlton.

Simone and Daphne, because of the depth of their betrayal, and Tess, because of her extreme desperation, do not make my friendship list for Bay at all.

Same.

[ollibear]

Originally Posted by Slayerfan714 (View Post) Yes, I agree with this. Tess is in no position to be a friend. But for some reason, they like telling other character's stories through Bay and I just got the impression they have this whole background for Tess to make her sympathetic and that will only happen if she interacts more with Bay.

I cannot figure out what story the writers may want to tell with Tess.

She is a single mother, poor, without any support. Is this going to give Bay a direction in her own life (helping people like Tess)? Is Tess supposed to show Bay how lucky she is, to not be in the same boat (a single mother without any support)?

What is Tess's purpose?

Zarra showed Bay someone she might have been, if the switch never happened. What will Tess show Bay?

[Slayerfan714]

Originally Posted by ollibear (View Post) I cannot figure out what story the writers may want to tell with Tess. She is a single mother, poor, without any support. Is this going to give Bay a direction in her own life (helping people like Tess)? Is Tess supposed to show Bay how lucky she is, to not be in the same boat (a single mother without any support)? What is Tess's purpose? Zarra showed Bay someone she might have been, if the switch never happened. What will Tess show Bay?

Me either.

I guess they could use her to say, "Yeah this part of your life is messed up, but you don't have X, Y, Z."

I guess I could see Bay in some kind of people-helping capacity. She has the heart for it, but I don't know what direction they want to take Bay in. I always thought Bay could help people out through her art. Whether through art therapy or something else.

[ollibear]

Originally Posted by Slayerfan714 (View Post) Me either. I guess they could use her to say, "Yeah this part of your life is messed up, but you don't have X, Y, Z." I guess I could see Bay in some kind of people-helping capacity. She has the heart for it, but I don't know what direction they want to take Bay in. I always thought Bay could help people out through her art. Whether through art therapy or something else.

Do you think any of the characters will ever mention Zarra again? Is there a chance we will see her?

I'm guessing she might be gone, but it does still feel like a loose thread. Life has a lot of those, though.