[Slayerfan714]

Originally Posted by GrhmLz (View Post) Good comparison. Their sibling relationship is like their safety net, something they'll always have to fall back on, which is each other. But that doesn't mean they won't have differences of opinion on aspects of their lives or pursue other interests that the other may not like or really even understand.

Yes, I agree. I think the difference is Toby supports Bay; not necessarily gets her. I don't know why it's a problem for her to seek out a friend or for Toby to either. It's like saying if you're in a relationship, you shouldn't need anyone else, and I don't think that's true. Both Toby and Bay have a right to interact with people who they have common interests with. And what about Toby? He's been feeling alone lately too, even though he knows he has Bay. Why is it up to Bay to seek him out? He can do the same.

[Wingster]

I think he gets Bay plenty actually

anyways...I guess it's Bay that may give Toby the cold shoulder when she learns of his renewed friendship with Emmett.

[americanamuchacha020]

I think Toby forgiving Emmett is what will push Bay to forgive him as well.

[ollibear]

Originally Posted by americanamuchacha020 (View Post) I think Toby forgiving Emmett is what will push Bay to forgive him as well.

I agree. Nikki's story really changed things for Toby. I think Bay will follow Toby's lead on this one.

[Slayerfan714]

I don't want to keep arguing this point, but it's not that I don't think Toby doesn't get Bay at all. I just don't think it's mutually exclusive that just because they have each other that they can't hang out with anyone else.

[Wingster]

I wonder when Toby will learn about Zarra and what his reaction will be...sneaking out is one thing...stealing money and lying is another (although it's similar to the old Toby.)

[Slayerfan714]

I would think or hope he'd try to rationalize/reason with her like she did when he was gambling. Like you say, Toby knows better than anyone what it's like to hit rock bottom. True, he didn't steal from his parents, but he broke into the school, stole tests, and sold them to pay for his enormous gambling bill. He's no stranger to doing things you wouldn't do until you're desperate.

It might be another way for them to bond and look out for each other.

[Slayerfan714]

I was rewatching the finale and Bay has a pig in the car when she's loading it to leave, and for those of you who haven't read the book, Toby gave "Bay" (Daphne) a pig when he came to the hospital to meet his little sister for the first time, and Kathryn mentions Bay still has it. I think the name is Mr. Oinkers or something. I'd have to go back and find it, but I think it's funny and kind of adorable that she was bringing the pig with her. Not that I liked the running away, but not many teens would bring stuffed animals with them, at least, I don't think they would.

[ollibear]

Originally Posted by Slayerfan714 (View Post) I was rewatching the finale and Bay has a pig in the car when she's loading it to leave, and for those of you who haven't read the book, Toby gave "Bay" (Daphne) a pig when he came to the hospital to meet his little sister for the first time, and Kathryn mentions Bay still has it. I think the name is Mr. Oinkers or something. I'd have to go back and find it, but I think it's funny and kind of adorable that she was bringing the pig with her. Not that I liked the running away, but not many teens would bring stuffed animals with them, at least, I don't think they would.

I did notice the stuffed pig in Bay's trunk, as she packed up The Thing. And I have read Kathryn's book, but I didn't even put two and two together. Good eye! When I first saw that scene, I wondered if the stuffed animal was one of the many things that gave Emmett the idea that Bay might be leaving. It's not something most teens would pack for a day trip, but if they were leaving home for a long, long time, they might.

Poor Bay! So glad Emmett and John found her.

[Slayerfan714]

No, it's something sentimental, and that could have tipped him off, but I think it was the art supplies.

But I thought it was sweet that she brought the pig. I really love Bay and Toby. They are probably one of my favorite TV brother/sister relationships. "I was locking my door" "It was not that bad."

"You must be angry girl" "Don't make me regret bring you."



I love that Toby hasn't let the switch affect his relationship with Bay. There's always that fear that things could get ugly and one of them could say "You're not really my sister/brother!"

[ollibear]

Originally Posted by Slayerfan714 (View Post) "I was locking my door" "It was not that bad." "You must be angry girl" "Don't make me regret bring you."

I love the dialogue on this show in general, and particularly between Toby & Bay. The dynamic in their relationship is so cool! There is the history that they share, the mutual respect that they have for each other, the recognition of each others' talents, the protectiveness that each feels for the other.

And it all comes out in their dialogue and their body language. Both the writers and the actors have nailed this relationship.

I agree. Toby & Bay have the best brother/sister interactions on television.

[GrhmLz]

It'll be interesting to see what new directions the show takes their relationship in. Like, will it be a case of being there but too overly involved in some things, or will they take a more distant approach and just be the support system from afar, an ear to lend.

[Slayerfan714]

Yeah, Heather, it will be interesting to see how they continue. I think Bay and Toby tend to be the second part. They don't get too involved in each others' business unless it is damaging (gambling), but they are always there to listen.

And it all comes out in their dialogue and their body language. Both the writers and the actors have nailed this relationship. I agree. Toby & Bay have the best brother/sister interactions on television.

Agreed. Vanessa and Lucas really do nail it.

I also love the "There's a few girls at school I wouldn't mind making coffee with" "Just make sure you use a coffee filter"

Also I think it was that same scene where she told Toby if he took the last lemon square she'd shave his eyebrows off in his sleep. Such a bro-sis moment. Like, I love you, but if you take that piece of cake I was craving, you will incur my wrath.

I honestly can't think of another brother-sister duo I have enjoyed this much. I liked Amy and Bright on Everwood and Nolan and Emily on Revenge, but the latter pair aren't really related, at least not by blood.

So, yes, I love Bay and Toby.

[ollibear]

Originally Posted by Slayerfan714 (View Post) Agreed. Vanessa and Lucas really do nail it. I also love the "There's a few girls at school I wouldn't mind making coffee with" "Just make sure you use a coffee filter" Also I think it was that same scene where she told Toby if he took the last lemon square she'd shave his eyebrows off in his sleep. Such a bro-sis moment. Like, I love you, but if you take that piece of cake I was craving, you will incur my wrath. I honestly can't think of another brother-sister duo I have enjoyed this much. I liked Amy and Bright on Everwood and Nolan and Emily on Revenge, but the latter pair aren't really related, at least not by blood. So, yes, I love Bay and Toby.

And Bay and Toby aren't related by blood either, but their relationship is so believable that I forget that.

If the switch had not occurred, I am sure Daphne and Toby would have had a good brother/sister relationship, but it would have been different. Toby would have really missed out on something unique with Bay. Some of her sarcasm seems to have rubbed off on him. Daphne is so positive and upbeat. She would not provide Toby with the same witty banter, and I think it enriches his life.

In the episode where Daphne dreams of an alternate universe, Daphne and Toby have a good brother/sister relationship, but the two characters do not exchange the same kind of witty retorts. I love the verbal volleyball match that Bay and Toby share!

[Pippa Plum]

Someone mentioned a Bay and Toby "incest" storyline earlier, which cracked me up because I actually thought there would be an "incest" storyline when I started watching the show, just not between Bay and Toby. I had seen a SaB youtube video, and I thought Emmett, Toby, and Daphne were biological siblings and Emmett, Toby, and Bay "adoptive" siblings. So I thought Bay and Emmett were brother and sister, and you can probably see where I'm going with this.