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ollibear 04-09-2017 02:58 PM

#510 "Long Live Love" ~ Episode Discussion
 
Episode Title:

Long Live Love

Air Date:

Tuesday, April 11, 2017

Synopsis:

In the emotional 90-minute series finale of the award-winning drama, Kathryn becomes nostalgic when she realizes that it's been five years since the switch was discovered and the two families started living together. As she searches for memories, Kathryn discovers a long buried family secret - stretching all the way back to the switch - that changes everything.

Daphne competes against Mingo for a six-week paid internship in sports medicine.

Bay is celebrated for her tattoo work in a magazine spread, but her struggle to prove herself as an artist to John threatens to destroy their relationship.

Toby meets Amelia (guest star Lauren Potter, "Glee"), a young woman with Down Syndrome who changes his perception about his son's future.

Melody, Emmett and Travis make some major decisions about their lives, and Regina takes a chance on love.

Director: Steve Miner

Writers: Lizzy Weiss & Linda Gase

ollibear 04-11-2017 09:35 AM

Well, this is IT! I can't believe it's tonight!

Here are my predictions!

BAY: I believe that she will find a way to convince Travis to leave for Tokyo without her. She will do this, as she did for Emmett, because it is right for him. I also believe that Bay will be experiencing some success in her own tattooing career and not want to leave home for that reason. (Tokyo could have been great for Bay, though, especially if she had opened her mind to anime.) By the end of the episode, I also believe that Bay will at least appear open to rekindling her love affair with Emmett.

DAPHNE: I believe that she will recognize that becoming a doctor is not for her. She will probably choose a career path related to medicine though, because she does seem to like science. My guess is that Daphne will combine that love of science with her love of sports to consider a career in sports medicine. I also believe Daphne will rekindle her love with Mingo.

EMMETT: I believe that he will find success with his photography. Perhaps "Live Ink" magazine will offer him a position on their staff. I also believe Emmett will decide that he still loves Bay and will make a move to reach out to her.

KATHRYN: Well, the episode description says that Kathryn uncovers a family secret that changes everything. I'm stumped, to be honest. I guess it might have something to do with the family considering a move long ago. Perhaps Kathryn wonders if the switch would ever have been uncovered, if they had moved far away. After all, everything hinges on Bay taking that blood type test in biology class at Buckner. What else could it be? Hmm...perhaps Kathryn & John almost didn't have a second baby?

JOHN: I don't think much will change for John. Kathryn's growth as a person has been good for their marriage. He is happy coaching baseball at UMKC. I believe he loves being a grandfather and may even become involved in Special Olympics. Now that Travis is soaring in Tokyo, I predict John will develop a stronger relationship with Toby, too, and perhaps, one day, his two future son-in-laws.

REGINA: I predict that she will dive headfirst into a committed relationship with Luca believing him to be the one for her and recognizing that, despite appearances, their relationship actually has a nice balance of trust, chemistry, and practicality.

TOBY: I believe that he will balance his love of making music with being a husband, dad, son, and brother. I find myself most curious about Toby's relationship with Daphne, in the end. I wonder if that will be touched upon at all.

In just 11 hours, we'll know how well I did predicting the futures of these characters I love so dearly. :blinkie::hotpinkie::pinkie:

ollibear 04-11-2017 08:38 PM

Well, all of my predictions are wrong, and that was the worst episode of "Switched at Birth" I have ever seen. It was the worst finale of any TV series I have ever seen.

It was overly sentimental and empty and meaningless.

At least, I kept hope alive until the very end.

I'm ready to shut down this board. If anyone feels differently, speak up.

nailpolishchick2 04-11-2017 08:55 PM

I got my answer tonight on whether or not I would regret watching this show. And my answer is YES. Huge mistake. Lizzy Weiss completely ignored history. I hate her. I will never believe her and Travis are this big love because history said otherwise, I dont believe it. After tonight, I am finished with this show. I will never EVER watch a show by Lizzy Weiss ever again. She wasted five years of my life and for what. Absolutely nothing.

~AnastasiaGrey~ 04-11-2017 09:09 PM

Yeah I wasn't happy at all.. and it was just nothing. to me worse finale ever

and Amy Yeah I am ready to close it as well. its just disheartning.

ollibear 04-11-2017 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ~AnastasiaGrey~ (Post 89780224)
Yeah I wasn't happy at all.. and it was just nothing. to me worse finale ever

and Amy Yeah I am ready to close it as well. its just disheartning.

I wanted Bay & Emmett together, but I could have been happy with a well-written finale, if they remained apart.

I would have preferred Bay end things with Travis and remained on her own, rather than turn Travis into The One, but I could even accept that, if well-written.

However, I draw the line at Lizzy Weiss allowing Bay to orchestrate turning Emmett into Travis's househusband to dust all of his trophies, take pictures of him, and clean up after him on the road in Japan.

It wasn't a good enough future for Bay to be Travis's tag-along, but it was good enough for Emmett. Right....

Emmett doesn't even like Travis. He couldn't even make eye-contact with him at the art gallery. And he is going to follow him to Tokyo as his tag-along?

What a way to take a great character and completely decimate him! At the very least, Emmett should have been able to go off on his own someplace and start over again. The idea of Emmett sharing some sick brotherhood with Travis, where he gets to spend the rest of his life watching Travis & Bay be intimate with each other is TOO MUCH.

How would Bay like to watch Emmett be intimate with Daphne? She wouldn't. It's not fair that Lizzy Weiss penned a similar future for Emmett.

And of course, Daphne has Mingo as her true love now.

What an overly sentimental and maudlin ending to what was once a good show. I hated it.

sawako 04-12-2017 12:42 AM

I'm my even going to watch this, so over it

Barstool Prophet 04-12-2017 02:13 AM

Okay I am so confused.

So John ripped Regina a new one the first season when he found out she knew about the switch but knew Bay wasn't his the whole time and kept it a secret? A comet going over the house? Emmett and Travis besties? Eric is going to go to prison so he can be with Regina? She is raising that kid? Does Regina even have a job? Regina kept the switch for 16 years but couldn't lie to her boy toy for a week?

Japan came up and I was like Ty? Then no Ty...

The Downs syndrome stuff was depressing. I just wished they had of left that out. Toby is married with a kid and he is excited to live in his parents guest house?

Daphne is becoming a doctor? I don't see it. Mingo gave up an awesome internship for her? Are there any people on the planet that won't ruin their lives for her? :lol: I just can't.

Really no closure for Bay and Regina. No recognition that Bay gave up everything for her. Why where Bay and Daphne laying so close together on the lawn? :lmao: That's new.

Travis is playing Baseball in Japan? Is this going to be a spinoff :lol:

I was happy for Melody, she got the happiest ending :lol:

Are Bay and Travis together? I am confused.

othfan1980 04-12-2017 03:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ollibear (Post 89780825)
I wanted Bay & Emmett together, but I could have been happy with a well-written finale, if they remained apart.

I would have preferred Bay end things with Travis and remained on her own, rather than turn Travis into The One, but I could even accept that, if well-written.

However, I draw the line at Lizzy Weiss allowing Bay to orchestrate turning Emmett into Travis's househusband to dust all of his trophies, take pictures of him, and clean up after him on the road in Japan.

It wasn't a good enough future for Bay to be Travis's tag-along, but it was good enough for Emmett. Right....

Emmett doesn't even like Travis. He couldn't even make eye-contact with him at the art gallery. And he is going to follow him to Tokyo as his tag-along?

What a way to take a great character and completely decimate him! At the very least, Emmett should have been able to go off on his own someplace and start over again. The idea of Emmett sharing some sick brotherhood with Travis, where he gets to spend the rest of his life watching Travis & Bay be intimate with each other is TOO MUCH.

How would Bay like to watch Emmett be intimate with Daphne? She wouldn't. It's not fair that Lizzy Weiss penned a similar future for Emmett.

And of course, Daphne has Mingo as her true love now.

What an overly sentimental and maudlin ending to what was once a good show. I hated it.

I'm the opposite. What I liked about the ending was staying true to characters and almost to real life rather than trying to please the fans in terms of couples.

Bay and Emmett gave it 2 shots and both times it ending with a lot of pain and breaches of trust. Most couples, let alone a couple under 20 years old survive that because the trust goes. You can find a path to be friends but to have the level of trust, ease required with a long term partner. The thing I have learnt as I have gone through life is we have first loves that are often passionate, but the partner we settle down with is our best friend, our lover and someone we trust implicitly. And I would have struggled with an ending of Bay/Emmett together for that reason. Bay/Travis have a normal, healthy relationship...is it this great dramatic Romeo/Juleit story? No. But that's true to life. We date our romeos, get hurt and then we realise what is important. Trust, honesty, friendship, fun, supporting each other, making it work and common goals.And Bay and Emmett couldn't do that twice! And Bay and Travis have managed to have a healthy relationship with little drama, support each other, be there for each other and ultimately beat a number of obstacles Bay/Emmett never could. That is what made that choice the right one in my opinion. For Bay to have turned around in the finale and gone I can't live without Emmett would have felt like another doomed reaction based on feelings rather than thinking about what was right for her and them.

As for Emmett not liking Travis. They fell out over Bay. They were best friends and like brothers. To throw away the years of friendship over a girl Emmett himself dumped; it was right and typical for Bay (the person who came between them) to try to finally mend that as she finally knew what she wanted and had a place in the world with art, where she was happy. She could have ended things with Travis, emmett gone away...but I thought it very Bay to try to repair their relationship given the previous episode with his mum, Emmett's depression and the fact the boys are so closely linked through Emmett's mum. It's different if Travis wasn't some sort of foster son.

Finales, when ending shows, don't need major drama. Its about the character's story's coming together. And Bay's is one that rang true. Despite her rather stupid mistake taking the fall for Daphne, she found a place in the world where she could be an artist and have a career which made her happy. And tattoo artist feels quite realistic given her tagging past. and she found peace in her relationships and what she wanted from a guy. She didn't need drama, passion. She needed trust, honesty, respect and friendship with someone she could grow with. And unfortunately she never got that with Emmett. Sometimes you can't go back and love isn't enough. And love can take different forms.

ollibear 04-12-2017 05:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barstool Prophet (Post 89782303)
Okay I am so confused.

So John ripped Regina a new one the first season when he found out she knew about the switch but knew Bay wasn't his the whole time and kept it a secret?

:lol: That would be confusing! That's not what happened, though.

When Bay revealed the results of her biology-class blood test at Buckner (and remember John joking with the family about Kathryn having a fascination with a mail carrier who has snaggly teeth), John was bothered by the fact that Bay has AB blood type and he and Kathryn both have A.

So John, without telling anyone, immediately took some of Bay's hair from a brush and got it DNA tested. John learned that Bay was not his child and assumed Kathryn had had an affair, but that was only a couple of weeks before Kathryn did a similar test at Bay's request, and the whole family discovered that Bay was not their biological child.

So John only kept the secret that Bay was not his child, for a week or two at most. When the family discovered the babies had been switched at birth, at least, John learned that Kathryn had not cheated to produce Bay.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barstool Prophet (Post 89782303)
A comet going over the house?

That part bugs me greatly.

The writers didn't even have the wherewithal to remember that Angelo had given John a state-of-the-art telescope, when he received all of the money from his lawsuit against the hospital. That would have been a nice way to bring Angelo's memory into this final episode.

But worse than that, looking up at the stars was always Bay & Emmett's gig. In every season, you will find an episode of Bay & Emmett gazing up at the stars together. Sometimes they did that in multiple episodes per season. And now, in Season 5, the writers make a concerted effort to negate that memory for fans. Looking up at the stars suddenly becomes the family's jam, and not something Bay & Emmett do together.

Oh, and for good measure, the song that played during the first time Bay & Emmett made love together, under the stars, ALSO plays as the family looks up at the stars together, because, you know, Bay & Emmett cannot have anything special that's just their own, not even a song, in the end.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barstool Prophet (Post 89782303)
Emmett and Travis besties?

That is perhaps the most unbelievable part of the whole series. Lizzy Weiss is a MASTER at telling the audience important information, without showing us anything.

We've never seen any evidence of that kind of relationship between Emmett and Travis. The idea of Emmett moving to Tokyo, Japan, to follow Travis around on his professional baseball team is ludicrous. It was not even a good enough future for Bay to choose, and she is supposedly in love with Travis and she definitely shares a sexual relationship with him.

So, even though, Bay will not go to Tokyo to polish Travis's trophies and learn meditation and the ancient art of basket weaving, Emmett will????

And it wasn't even Emmett's idea, but Bay's? So Bay orchestrates Emmett's life for him, even when they are not a couple, first sending him to USC, and now, sending him to Japan.

Bay may be an important character on this show and important in Emmett's life, but no one holds that kind of power over another's life. Bay isn't so special as to keep calling the shots for Emmett, even after they break up. The writers made a stupid decision, and it only serves as evidence as to how much the writers wanted to decimate Emmett's strength and autonomy as a character.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barstool Prophet (Post 89782303)
Eric is going to go to prison so he can be with Regina? She is raising that kid? Does Regina even have a job?

Okay, you are right. Maybe THIS is the most unbelievable part of the whole series. Eric is a former gang member. He knows what prison is like. He knows what will happen to him in prison for three years. But he is going to accept that, in order to be with Regina when he gets out? And he is going to trust her raising his son? One that he has risked everything to protect?

I would not trust Regina raising my child. Eric knows about Daphne's crime spree. Does he really think Regina will be able to raise Will all by herself in East Riverside? And won't he miss some of the most important three years of his son's life? That's so unbelievable.

And what a slap in the face to Bay that Regina wants to raise another child, but she takes no interest in Bay. Regina wasn't even willing to help Angelo raise his daughter Abby, who is Bay's biological sister. But Regina is all over raising another man's son.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barstool Prophet (Post 89782303)
Regina kept the switch for 16 years but couldn't lie to her boy toy for a week?

I felt bad for Luca. He didn't deserve that. But he did dodge a bullet by escaping his relationship with Regina. It may hurt him now, but he'll be luckier in the long run.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barstool Prophet (Post 89782303)
Japan came up and I was like Ty? Then no Ty...

Was Ty supposed to be in Japan? I thought he was in Germany.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barstool Prophet (Post 89782303)
The Downs syndrome stuff was depressing. I just wished they had of left that out. Toby is married with a kid and he is excited to live in his parents guest house?

I agree. The Down syndrome stuff could be lovely to explore, if Toby was in a relationship with someone who is his soulmate. But instead, he is stuck in this relationship with Lily, who doesn't really love him. They only married because of the baby. He is once again living in his parents' home. And now, he is giving up his music, too.

I guess it doesn't really matter, though, because this show never explored anything with much depth.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barstool Prophet (Post 89782303)
Daphne is becoming a doctor? I don't see it. Mingo gave up an awesome internship for her? Are there any people on the planet that won't ruin their lives for her? :lol: I just can't.

Okay, you're right! THIS must be the most unbelievable turn for the whole series.

Daphne is no more going to become a doctor than Toby is. Lizzy Weiss is living in her fantasy world. I am glad Weiss has this world of fiction, because someone like Daphne could not exist in the real world.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barstool Prophet (Post 89782303)
Really no closure for Bay and Regina. No recognition that Bay gave up everything for her.

It really sucks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barstool Prophet (Post 89782303)
Why where Bay and Daphne laying so close together on the lawn? :lmao: That's new.

Weiss says Bay and Daphne are the true soulmates of the series. All I see is a leech and a host.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barstool Prophet (Post 89782303)
Travis is playing Baseball in Japan? Is this going to be a spinoff :lol:

In an interview yesterday, Lizzy Weiss said she would love to do a spin off with Travis and Emmett in Japan. Like I would believe that. I am quite sure Lizzy Weiss does not want to work with Sean Berdy again. She would need to recast his role.

I sure would not watch another Weiss production. Her storytelling is meaningless.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barstool Prophet (Post 89782303)
I was happy for Melody, she got the happiest ending :lol:

Really? I thought it strange how she keeps taking in 19 year old young men. That's how old Travis was when she took him into her home, too.

Why does Melody want to rescue young men her son's age, when her own son obviously needs more of her attention? I don't get it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barstool Prophet (Post 89782303)
Are Bay and Travis together? I am confused.

Yes, Bay & Travis are together. In interviews published last night, Lizzy Weiss said that Travis is The One for Bay, and together, they have what it takes to build a relationship that will last for the rest of their lives. Bay & Travis are long-distance runners now.

Lizzy Weiss and Vanessa Marano both said in interviews that Travis will never hurt Bay. He will be loyal and trustworthy for their whole lives.

I find that unrealistic, too. Any human being as neglected as Travis was in his formative years, not even sharing a language with his family, and especially considering Travis also suffered sexual abuse, is not going to be emotionally healthy enough to be some perfect mature suitor for Bay for the remainder of their lives.

Quote:

Originally Posted by othfan1980 (Post 89782826)
I'm the opposite. What I liked about the ending was
staying true to characters and almost to real life rather than trying to please the fans in terms of couples.

I knew the second the episode ended that you would love it. That was one of the first thoughts I had as the final credits rolled.

Quote:

Originally Posted by othfan1980 (Post 89782826)
Bay and Emmett gave it 2 shots and both times it ending with a lot of pain and breaches of trust. Most couples, let alone a couple under 20 years old survive that because the trust goes. You can find a path to be friends but to have the level of trust, ease required with a long term partner. The thing I have learnt as I have gone through life is we have first loves that are often passionate, but the partner we settle down with is our best friend, our lover and someone we trust implicitly. And I would have struggled with an ending of Bay/Emmett together for that reason. Bay/Travis have a normal, healthy relationship...is it this great dramatic Romeo/Juleit story? No. But that's true to life. We date our romeos, get hurt and then we realise what is important. Trust, honesty, friendship, fun, supporting each other, making it work and common goals.And Bay and Emmett couldn't do that twice! And Bay and Travis have managed to have a healthy relationship with little drama, support each other, be there for each other and ultimately beat a number of obstacles Bay/Emmett never could. That is what made that choice the right one in my opinion. For Bay to have turned around in the finale and gone I can't live without Emmett would have felt like another doomed reaction based on feelings rather than thinking about what was right for her and them.

Oh, I didn't want Bay to feel she cannot live without Emmett. That would have been horrible.

I just wanted Bay to trust herself enough to be able to go for the deeper, more fulfilling connections in life.

Quote:

Originally Posted by othfan1980 (Post 89782826)
As for Emmett not liking Travis. They fell out over Bay. They were best friends and like brothers.

No, they weren't. They had a few moments of being pals, but they were never best friends or like brothers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by othfan1980 (Post 89782826)
To throw away the years of friendship over a girl Emmett himself dumped;

What years of friendship? Travis and Emmett dislike each other throughout most of their junior year of high school, and it is only during their senior year that they become semi-friends. But they are never all that close.

Quote:

Originally Posted by othfan1980 (Post 89782826)
it was right and typical for Bay (the person who came between them) to try to finally mend that as she finally knew what she wanted and had a place in the world with art, where she was happy. She could have ended things with Travis, emmett gone away...but I thought it very Bay to try to repair their relationship given the previous episode with his mum, Emmett's depression and the fact the boys are so closely linked through Emmett's mum. It's different if Travis wasn't some sort of foster son.

I suppose that it is typical for Bay, but it's one of the few qualities I dislike about her. I was hoping that Bay would mature out of this need to orchestrate Emmett's life for him.

Plus, the idea of Emmett going to Tokyo is so STUPID. Why would he go there to be a photojournalist? It makes no sense. The majority of Japanese people do not even speak English. Emmett is Deaf. Travis may have an interpreter through his baseball team. What is Emmett going to do?

Lizzy Weiss just needed a way to get rid of Emmett's character in the end, so she stuck him in Japan with Travis.

When Bay comes to Tokyo for her Thanksgiving visit, I am sure that watching Bay and Travis have an intimate, sexual relationship will be just what the doctor ordered for Emmett's depression.

Oh, and I suppose Emmett's depression is all cured now, because you know, bygones.

Quote:

Originally Posted by othfan1980 (Post 89782826)
IFinales, when ending shows, don't need major drama. Its about the character's story's coming together. And Bay's is one that rang true. Despite her rather stupid mistake taking the fall for Daphne, she found a place in the world where she could be an artist and have a career which made her happy. And tattoo artist feels quite realistic given her tagging past. and she found peace in her relationships and what she wanted from a guy. She didn't need drama, passion. She needed trust, honesty, respect and friendship with someone she could grow with. And unfortunately she never got that with Emmett. Sometimes you can't go back and love isn't enough. And love can take different forms.

Love is always enough, and you can always go back, if you choose to go back.

As for Bay growing with Travis, a real-life Travis who had been neglected by his parents and never even shared a language with them, one who had been sexually molested as a child and never faced it, is not going to be ready to grow in a mature relationship with anyone. He is going to need counseling and help to overcome his anger and trust issues.

Lizzy Weiss's finale fantasy world does not ring true to me at all.

Barstool Prophet 04-12-2017 08:47 AM

Ah I missed that part. I meant more John kept it a secret, but if it was a short amount of time then it isn't the same thing. The Toby thing bothers me. Toby never had a real moment with either girl to say anything about being his sister. I never saw any chemistry between him and his wife. No more music for Toby? But he loved it. No mention of Angelo's kid?

I hope you are not right about the spinoff. I was kidding :lol:. Where was either Grandmother?
You know she is going to end up caring for Eric's kid :lol:.

I don't think everyone paired up was necessary.

This finale was supposed to give me closure No flashbacks. Except Emmett and Bay whom she didn't want to be with? :lmao:

John S 04-12-2017 10:08 AM

Give the thread another day or 2 before closing it down for good.

The reason why Bay and Daphne laid head to head on the grass was because that had been the promo shot since the series began.

Although negative, I believe that my predictions would have been a better ending than what we saw last night.

ollibear 04-12-2017 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John S (Post 89786082)
Give the thread another day or 2 before closing it down for good.

The reason why Bay and Daphne laid head to head on the grass was because that had been the promo shot since the series began.

Although negative, I believe that my predictions would have been a better ending than what we saw last night.

Your predictions were too negative for me, but I agree that they would have made for a more honest ending than what we saw.

I just do not understand Emmett moving to Japan to follow Travis on an adventure. And I loathe the thought of Bay visiting them for Thanksgiving, as she promised, and Emmett watching the two of them in an intimate relationship.

How is that going to work for his depression?

Speaking of which, what about his depression? He tried to commit suicide a month ago, partly because Bay sent him off to USC alone, where no one spoke his language, and he felt alienated. Now, Emmett is going to be in Tokyo, where no one speaks his language again, and few people even understand written English.

Is everyone rushing off to Tokyo to begin a career in photojournalism these days? With no training? What have I missed?

charming_essa 04-12-2017 01:08 PM

I'm sorry that the finale was not what people hoped for.

I just didn't care about John having taken the paternity test and not telling Katherine. It came out of nowhere. I think they just needed them to have something going on in this episode and that was all they could come up with. It had no affect on anything really.

It is so clear to me that Daphne is John's favorite child. He might as well have just come right out and said it. I did like the scenes between Daphne and Kathryn and how knowing Daphne has changed Kathryn's way of seeing people with disabilities.

I was fine with the resolution to Daphne's story. I expected her to continue to pursue her dream of being a doctor. She and Mingo are a cute couple. I was okay with whichever way that went.

The short scene at the end between Bay and Regina was nice, but did nothing to make up for the fact that the story has been neglected for nearly the entire series. I feel like Regina never really put forth any effort to get close to Bay.

I've always liked Regina and Eric together and I was pretty sure she wasn't going to run away with him, but I found it very unbelievable that after running for all these years, he's now willing to turn himself in and go to prison. Also I'm pretty sure you can't just hand off your kid to whoever you want to raise them while you're in jail. There is a process in place for those situations and since (I assume) Regina is not licensed for foster care and she and Eric are not married, she wouldn't just be granted custody. :rolleyes:

The Travis/Bay/Emmett resolution was terrible. Emmett and Travis are just barely on speaking terms. Why would Emmett want to go to Tokoyo with him and travel around with a baseball team?? That makes no sense. I also really hate that they started this depression storyline for Emmett and then dropped it. Totally not buying that Bay and Travis are *the one* for each other. Nope, Emmett or no Emmett, I don't buy it. Also a huge disappointment to fans of Bay of Emmett who have been waiting for a reunion, or at least some hint of one. This is the part where you say "screw canon" and embrace fanfiction.

I didn't care about Melody and Gabe or Toby and Lily so no real opinion on those storylines.

I came to this board really late, but I have very much enjoyed posting with all of you the last few months.

girl under the floor 04-12-2017 02:31 PM

I'm reading this thread and since I've already missed lots of episodes, I might not watch for a very long while :look:

It sucks guys :pout:

ollibear 04-12-2017 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by charming_essa (Post 89787800)
I'm sorry that the finale was not what people hoped for.

I just didn't care about John having taken the paternity test and not telling Katherine. It came out of nowhere. I think they just needed them to have something going on in this episode and that was all they could come up with. It had no affect on anything really.

It is so clear to me that Daphne is John's favorite child. He might as well have just come right out and said it. I did like the scenes between Daphne and Kathryn and how knowing Daphne has changed Kathryn's way of seeing people with disabilities.

I was fine with the resolution to Daphne's story. I expected her to continue to pursue her dream of being a doctor. She and Mingo are a cute couple. I was okay with whichever way that went.

The short scene at the end between Bay and Regina was nice, but did nothing to make up for the fact that the story has been neglected for nearly the entire series. I feel like Regina never really put forth any effort to get close to Bay.

I've always liked Regina and Eric together and I was pretty sure she wasn't going to run away with him, but I found it very unbelievable that after running for all these years, he's now willing to turn himself in and go to prison. Also I'm pretty sure you can't just hand off your kid to whoever you want to raise them while you're in jail. There is a process in place for those situations and since (I assume) Regina is not licensed for foster care and she and Eric are not married, she wouldn't just be granted custody. :rolleyes:

The Travis/Bay/Emmett resolution was terrible. Emmett and Travis are just barely on speaking terms. Why would Emmett want to go to Tokoyo with him and travel around with a baseball team?? That makes no sense. I also really hate that they started this depression storyline for Emmett and then dropped it. Totally not buying that Bay and Travis are *the one* for each other. Nope, Emmett or no Emmett, I don't buy it. Also a huge disappointment to fans of Bay of Emmett who have been waiting for a reunion, or at least some hint of one. This is the part where you say "screw canon" and embrace fanfiction.

I didn't care about Melody and Gabe or Toby and Lily so no real opinion on those storylines.

I came to this board really late, but I have very much enjoyed posting with all of you the last few months.

Thank you so much, Essa, for being part of the discussion! I appreciate your empathy, too.

Today, I've been feeling a little sick to my stomach and heartbroken over this story, and your kindness makes a difference.

I thought the paternity test John did five years ago was a nice foil for Angelo's paternity test 17 years ago. Both men thought their partners had cheated on them. Angelo was confrontational and demanded the truth from Regina. He said that he could forgive her, if she would only tell him the truth. But when Angelo didn't believe what Regina told him (which was the truth), she ordered him to leave. Whereas John never even shared with Kathryn that he had suspected and "confirmed" her indiscretion. He just accepted what she'd "done" all those years ago and decided to love her and the child anyway. That's a strong and mature human being, if you ask me, and that's the text book definition of real love. It's why I've always felt that Bay & Emmett could get back together, after their mistakes, because when you really love someone, then that love is unconditional. It doesn't matter whether you trust them or not, because you trust yourself, and you know your love for them is true.

I liked the scenes between Kathryn and Daphne, too. They were poignant. I also like the scenes between Kathryn and Bay. It's beautiful the way Bay allows herself to be vulnerable with Kathryn.

As for John, I think he just understands Daphne's goals better than he ever understood Bay or Toby's goals. He gave that same exact speech to Toby in the batting cage when Toby was trying to tell him that he wasn't going to give up his music career. He told Toby, "I just don't know how to help you in that world." Why would the writers repeat the same story for Bay?

Regina was her typical self-centered self. I like her with Eric or Luca, but I don't care about either relationship. I didn't feel anything when she talked to Bay or Daphne. I'm numb to anything to do with Regina. You are right about Regina not being Will's guardian. Why would Eric leave his impressionable son for three years anyway? Those are important years for a tween.

I agree with every word you said about Bay, Travis, and Emmett. The boys were never shown to be close, and the idea of Emmett following Travis to Tokyo is ludicrous. In an interview today, Lizzy Weiss added to Bay's Thanksgiving promise and said the three of them will spend every Thanksgiving together for the rest of their lives. WTF?

I agree about Melody & Gabe and Toby & Lily. No reason to care, although I am sad Toby now wants to give up music. For some reason, it feels as though Weiss writes women to douse men's passions more often than not. I hate to seek that.

teaholic 04-12-2017 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ollibear (Post 89783560)
And what a slap in the face to Bay that Regina wants to raise another child, but she takes no interest in Bay. Regina wasn't even willing to help Angelo raise his daughter Abby, who is Bay's biological sister. But Regina is all over raising another man's son.
...

I thought it strange how she keeps taking in 19 year old young men. That's how old Travis was when she took him into her home, too.

Why does Melody want to rescue young men her son's age, when her own son obviously needs more of her attention? I don't get it.

I have so much to say about this episode, but I just wanted to respond to this quickly. I had the same reaction as you about both Regina and Melody, but then I thought about it, and I think it might be realistic. It's not great, and I don't think it's a wise decision for either of these women (although way worse in Regina's case), but I think it makes some psychological sense. Maybe they feel like they screwed up with their own biological children, and rather than untangle the mess in those relationships and have to deal with the anger, resentment, and disappointment that their children probably feel (again, obviously way more in Bay's case than in Emmett's), they would like to make up for it by starting fresh with another child who sees them as being perfect, and with whom they have a clean slate.

I know a person like this in real life, a man. He was pretty uninvolved in his first daughter's upbringing and kind of neglected her, especially after he divorced her mother. But with his second daughter, he was an absolutely doting father from the get-go, even after divorcing her mother, and fought a hard custody battle to make sure he could be deeply involved in her life. At the time this was happening, the eldest daughter was still a teenager and could have used her father in her life, but there was some bitterness and hurt that he would have had to overcome; whereas the second daughter was very young and thought her daddy was perfect. Guess what? He continued to ignore the eldest daughter, to the point she ended up changing her last name to her mother's, whereas his relationship with the youngest daughter continues to be really close.:rolleyes:

ollibear 04-12-2017 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by teaholic (Post 89789103)
I have so much to say about this episode, but I just wanted to respond to this quickly. I had the same reaction as you about both Regina and Melody, but then I thought about it, and I think it might be realistic. It's not great, and I don't think it's a wise decision for either of these women (although way worse in Regina's case), but I think it makes some psychological sense. Maybe they feel like they screwed up with their own biological children, and rather than untangle the mess in those relationships and have to deal with the anger, resentment, and disappointment that their children probably feel (again, obviously way more in Bay's case than in Emmett's), they would like to make up for it by starting fresh with another child who sees them as being perfect, and with whom they have a clean slate.

I know a person like this in real life, a man. He was pretty uninvolved in his first daughter's upbringing and kind of neglected her, especially after he divorced her mother. But with his second daughter, he was an absolutely doting father from the get-go, even after divorcing her mother, and fought a hard custody battle to make sure he could be deeply involved in her life. At the time this was happening, the eldest daughter was still a teenager and could have used her father in her life, but there was some bitterness and hurt that he would have had to overcome; whereas the second daughter was very young and thought her daddy was perfect. Guess what? He continued to ignore the eldest daughter, to the point she ended up changing her last name to her mother's, whereas his relationship with the youngest daughter continues to be really close.:rolleyes:

That's a good point! I never thought about it that way. If that's what the writers were aiming for, then I wish they would have shown Regina and Melody feeling insecure as parents at some point. They both seem so confident. Also, why didn't Regina or Melody want a chance for a redo with a young child? Why are they both choosing children that are grown or almost grown.

But still, food for thought! That could be one reason for Regina and Melody reaching out to Travis, Matthew, and Will.

Wes&FredFan 04-12-2017 08:58 PM

I didn't ship Emmett and Bay. In fact I was definitely in the minority around this board, but I still posted for a while. Even when I felt my interest in the show slipping away.

I was glad that Bay didn't end up with Emmett in the end, but I truly empathize with those who rooted for them. I liked her with Travis and felt that ending with them was the way to go. I liked that Bay and Emmett had a convo at the end, and he rode off on his motorcycle a la James Dean, which is how Bay referred to him earlier in the series. It seemed like they were doing a salute to Dawson's Creek, where Joey and Dawson tell each other they're soulmates, even though she ends up happily with Pacey in the end. Not very original, but I shipped P/Jo too so I was happy with that ending.

The Toby/Lily story stalled on me a while ago, but I like that Toby learned that there are different levels of retardation with Downs Syndrome and Carlton's life might be different than the one he feared.

John getting a paternity test and staying wasn't a big bombshell. Just shows that he thought Kathryn had cheated on him, but still loved her to raise Bay as his.

I understand the betrayal that Bay/Emmett fans feel though. They were jerked around the entire series. To add insult to injury, the final song that played was the same one Emmett and Bay slept together to, so that deliberate "gotcha" must have been painful. I figured that Daphne would end up with Emmett if they weren't going the Bay/Emmett route, since Melody and Daphne were always so close anyway. I was always indifferent to Mingo/Daphne. I was looking for an Emmett/Daphne scene since they're supposed to be best friends. They spent way too much time on the whole "bombshell" and Regina/Luca breakup. I can't even remember the last time Melody and Regina had a scene together, and they're supposed to be best friends as well.

For a show that started off like gangbusters and that I looked forward to watching to one that I didn't care if I missed ... sad. But since there's another ship I have from a different fandom that is the writers' favorite play thing to beat around and screw up, I know all-too-well how it feels when you as a fan are tortured and put through the ringer of horrible storylines.

Best wishes to all on this board and I hope to see you around :ff:.

griselda 04-13-2017 07:58 AM

I would rather see Bay and Emmett together.
Emmett following his directorial career.
As she is with Travis because he is a player of baseball-I mean that John was and sometimes people choose as couples who resemble their parents-

~Janice~ 04-13-2017 09:36 AM

Loved the show, sorry to see it end.

Erinįƒ¦ 04-16-2017 02:09 AM

I finally watched the finale and wow, I'm so sad knowing it's over. I only started watching the show because one day I was struggling through a depressing break-up and just needed something new to watch while browsing netflix. I hit watch now and an addiction began :lol: this was only a couple of years ago so I was lucky enough to binge watch through the first 3 seasons and it went by so quick :rotfl:

Now to the negative things.
I went into this finale with my expectations low not just because the show was declining in quality but also because the last 9 episodes were just not great at all. So it made me extremely hesitant for the finale and I felt I was right.
I'll kind of explain what went wrong in my opinion.

+ There was simply too much crammed into one episode.
We went bouncing around from one character to the other and then another and another and then we had to go back over again the same way to tie up the loose ends. Why couldn't they begin tying up these loose ends a couple of episodes before? This would have been beneficial not just to the show writers but even more so for fans!

+ They showed characters that I flat out did not care about
I'll be as nice as I can about this but I can't stand Matthew. Not only was he irrelevant but I will never be okay with the way he catfished, humiliated, blackmailed and assaulted Emmett and got away with it because Matthew was in the closet. I don't care if you're gay, bi, or straight dude, you don't get a pass for doing these things and suffering no consequences; at least not from me. I was angry when Bay and Natalie talked Emmett out of reporting him because he wanted to and certainly had every right to. So seeing his face on my screen on the FINALE really annoyed me because he took up screen-time that I would have rather seen go to someone else, like a MAIN character. Again, if they just had to have him, why not do it in the earlier episodes?! I wouldn't like that much either but I'll tell you what, I would take that over his appearance in the finale.

+ Iris
UGH! I really couldn't stand this chick through out her entire appearance on the show, only in this finale was she a good friend to Daphne (for ONCE) but I'm also so annoyed that Mingo had to apologize for following the rules of dressing up as his favorite artist at a COSTUME PARTY. And if he had to apologize to her then he certainly should get one back after the way she treated him before this incident even started. This girl hated Mingo from the start because he had "the nerve" to be honest with Daphne by telling her he didn't want anything serious and that he simply was having fun. I get that it hurt Daphne and Iris wanted to protect her friend but not even after Mingo changed his mind and proved himself to be an incredible boyfriend to Daphne, she absolutely gave him the cold shoulder and abandoned Daphne as her friend. She was very snotty and rude and she ruined about 5 of those episodes this season.


+ Bay/Travis Relationship
I like Travis, and I love Bay. So for a quite a while I was questioning to myself that if I like them both as individuals then why can't I seem to get behind them as a couple? And I think I've figured it out. Not only just because Bay and Emmett will always rank over any other pairings in the show but also because Bay and Travis only began dating recently. They first kissed in the finale, and then we only got to see their dynamic for these last 10 episodes. This just doesn't leave enough time to decide whether I think they are good for each other or not. But with that said, I still have always had a difficult time getting behind them because it seemed like Bay only saw them as friends and was so caught off guard by that kiss (though to be fair, she did kiss him back). I think she had been going through so much heart break from Emmett that sometimes it feels good to have another person flatter and compliment you and think the world of you. The pain of heart break lessens a little bit and things don't feel so bleak. Please know that I'm simply stating my interpretation, I don't want any shippers of Bay/Travis to feel put down or offended. I could be wrong, but I feel this makes more sense in my mind.

+ Bay/Emmett Relationship
The only thing they got right here was that beautiful flash back montage because seeing some of the best Bemmett moments at once was such a shot to my heart and made me think "how could they still not be endgame after showing all of that beautiful history?!" I mean they did show the bad moments between them toward the end so I'll give them that. When I think of Bay and Emmett, I think strong history, special, true loves, timelines, conquered learning the same language just so that they could be together, and as Emmett once stated, a power couple.
With Bay and Travis, I don't see or feel any connection that is remotely the same. I have always felt like a guy like Travis wouldn't "excite" Bay (not saying implying sexually, can't really judge things that happen off screen) quite like Emmett did. Everytime I see them, I always get the impression that Bay is with him because he's been so good to her. Kind of like she may have fell in love with the idea of comfort, and feeling safe knowing that Travis won't hurt her because he adores her. I base this on two scenes in particular.

- The first being after her and Travis's first kiss in the S4 finale. She's talking to Daphne at the hospital waiting for baby Carlton to be born and Bay kind of gushes about him being a good kisser and Daphne asks her if she's considering him because he's the "best' guy and she's not sure.

- The first example wouldn't really matter had it not been for this second scene. And that would be right after Emmett tells her he should have never let her go. Bay again, turns to Daphne and she talked about how that confession made her heart leap, but feels badly to admit that because Travis is so amazing (this isn't verbatum, just paraphrasing) and it almost reads to me that she still loved and wanted to be with Emmett but felt badly about breaking Travis's heart, and also she did not want to cause an even bigger rift between Emmett and Travis as she was already feeling gulty enough. So she may have felt a little stuck but I'm completely willing to say that I could be dead wrong.


+ Bay/John
It was heart breaking to watch Bay's expression going from feeling proud of herself to feeling like she'll never be good enough as John praised Daphne for her upcoming accomplishments as a doctor. Then having to him insult her passion and call t nothing short of a dead end. I mean I am glad that this was addressed because it always seemed to me like Bay was everyone's red-headed step-child who let Daphne get away with quite a bit even in the time Bay took the blame for Daphne herself. However, again I wish this had been dealt with sooner because the John/Bay storyline started and ended so fast since they only had one episode left. I kind of hoped that maybe Daphne would step in and come to her defense a little bit but I don't blame her really, eh, I think she's hesitant to argue with John because she seems to have a great bond with him and feels like one wrong move and it could come crashing down. I get John's perspective in the way that every parent wants to see their child go to college and get a good education and an even better job, but we're 5 seasons in and he still acts surprised that Bay is a person that marches to the beat of her own drum?

+ Regina...Ugh
I hate Regina, always have and always will. Sorry to anyone that loves her. But she was absolutely an attrocious parent to Bay so much so that I am actually prepared to make a gifset or two off all the times she screwed Bay over, and it wasn't even just Bay, she did some crap parenting with Daphne as well. So, poor Luca. We just had a few episodes ago where Regina suspected Luca of cheating, actually not susupected, she took it as fact and stalked the guy :lol: she talks about how much he wants to scream or cry before she knows anything. Then, Eric comes back into the picture and is making out with him within the firt 5 seconds of seeing him again! Like...what? Then we're supposed to be sympathetic for her because she's just too guilty to tell Luca. Well, I did feel sympathy, for Luca. He can do better.

+ Bay/Regina
Did anyone's heart shatter at Bay's tearful expression as Regina announces her plans to move out to go be with Will, who is someone else's kid? It was like a direct paralell to the moment in S4 when Bay finds out she's moving out and only tells Daphne (a common theme) and Regina says something along the lines of "I didn't know it would matter this much" and a tearful Bay say's "of course it matters, you're my mom". Ugh, very sad. And it's just another moment where Will comes before Bay. First a trumpet recital, now a mother figure for two years. I'm not trying to say that she shouldn't take care of Will while Eric does the right thing, but had Regina been a better parent to Bay then maybe it wouldn't be so hard for me to get behind her on this.

+ Bay/Emmett (part II)
It's fine for them not to be endgame (although I strongly preferred this) but seeing that go to Bay and Travis instead just doesn't seem real. I don't understand why we were given so many moments between Bay/Emmett that would hint at endgame or true love such as...

- Bay telling Daphne how Emmett's confession made her heart leap because she had been waiting for him to want her back
- The tattoo project they both decided to keep a secret
- The very obvious looks given to one another during said tattoo scene and talking about old times that were so special
- The scene where Bay tells Travis goodnight and then actually goes to see Emmett right when he sends a text
- And of course in the finale, that little montage of all the memories and history


Anyway that's all I've got for now. I did see that there is a thread about the board closing and I completely understand why most are leaning toward this being something that should happen, so Amy and anyone else who would be interested, I did promise to make over the Bay/Vanessa OP and while I did not get around to doing much, I DID get the banner finished! So if anyone is interested, I'll be posting it in the Bay/Vanessa thread just so anyone who was curious wanted to see it :)


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