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Old 07-29-2014, 08:48 AM
  #31
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Bay and Tank were both very OOC last night. I don't like it.
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Old 07-29-2014, 10:09 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Lucresiare (View Post)
It was a good episode, full of drama. Of course, I was disappointed by the fight between Bay and Emmett and annoyed that she choose to talk to Tank rather than Emmett but I didn't get bored a single minute in this episode (it isn't always the case).

I am happy we had scenes with Melody and deafness was one of the themes of this episode. The reason I watched SAB is because of the deaf community. I expected that Travis would go to College. Actually, I thought he would be the only one. Hopefully, he gets a place last minute if Daphne doesn't go.
Yes. I agree!

I especially agree about enjoying the scenes with Melody and the continued exploration of Deafness. In previous seasons, when Emmett was not a big part of the story, often Deafness wasn't either, and it is nice to see that even if Emmett's role is minimal, the writers are still exploring that community.

I was fairly sure Travis would NOT get into Gallaudet, but I do believe he will go to college. He has Melody on his side, and she sees his potential. Her idea of a satellite campus at UMKC is amazing. I could see Travis going there, and perhaps, Melody will advance her own career that way.

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I find Daphne out of character. I can't believe she really went so far as sabotaging her mother. I have the feeling she's not only angry about Angelo's death, but also about the fact Regina didn't reveal the switch.
I saw an interview with Katie Leclerc recently where she said EXACTLY that. All of Daphne's anger stems from her deep feelings of betrayal at her mother's decision to keep the truth from her for 13 years. Angelo's death only triggered that anger AND her mistrust.

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I don't go with it. He was totally out of character, as you say. It looks like writers are going to make him the new Emmett, someone who she could bond with and talk to. He wasn't at all like that before.
I only said that I would go with it, because I don't feel I have any choice. The more I desire to see the story that I instinctively feel should be unfolding, the more the writers choose to hold it out of my reach. I am absolutely powerless.

There IS a natural, organic story that needs to unfold between Bay & Emmett, but for some reason, it is being tampered with and artificially modified.

It is disheartening.

It ABSOLUTELY appears the writers are making Tank the new Emmett, and it happened in the blink of an eye. In episode 3x14 (Oh, Future!), everything was on track, and in episode 3x18, everything has been derailed.

I understand how Angelo's death may have triggered the derailment of most things in the storyline. But I do NOT understand how Angelo's death could have made Tank go from a boorish drunk to a perfect gentleman in 0 to 60.

Lizzy Weiss said that Bay & Emmett's biggest struggle in Season 3B would be her immense feelings of guilt over having cheated on Tank. Well, all of that came to roost last night. I don't understand Bay's feelings. Tank's life would be EXACTLY the same as it is now, if Bay did NOT cheat and simply hopped in her car instead of kissing Emmett and returned to break up with him.

Is Bay supposed to feel as though she didn't have a right to break up with Tank? I know Bay was hurt herself by cheating, but I don't understand why Bay cannot see that the cheating is NOT what is causing Tank's problems and that Tank's problems are NOT her responsibility, nor Emmett's.

Bay has a right to live her life and so does her boyfriend. For her not to see that, it kills me. And it especially bothers me that Bay does not understand that, right now, her loyalty should not lie with Tank.

By putting Tank's needs ahead of the needs of her own boyfriend, Emmett, Bay made a serious mistake. Bay preached to Daphne about how family should come first in the episode Uprising. Well, boyfriends should ALWAYS come before ex-boyfriends. Bay was wrong.

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What make you think that she betrayed him ? It is not such a big deal that she went to that dinner. They may get over that (if the writers want to). It's not like they broke up, they are still a couple. Drama make shows more interesting, otherwise
Bay could choose to have dinner with Tank every night for the rest of her life, and it would NOT be a betrayal of her boyfriend Emmett. The dinner has NOTHING to do with Bay's betrayal.

Everyone is different, but here is how I feel:
I would rather my romantic partner sleep with 100 different women than to sit on the news that he did not get into a college for months. According to Travis, it is now three weeks until their graduation. Bay has known she is not going to Pratt since before Angelo died, and it is obvious she has not yet told Emmett. It seems so unfair to me for her to listen to his news about Gallaudet and not say one word about her own news. In fact, Bay's whole focus was on Tank. It wasn't on her future with Emmett at all.

And it would gut me, it would ABSOLUTELY rip my heart out, for my romantic partner to share his fears about a possible hereditary brain aneurysm with his most recent ex-girlfriend, instead of sharing those fears with me.

It would be especially heart-wrenching, if we always had been close and I had just seen him through the death of his father.

Ultimately, I would want my romantic partner to share his fears with anyone who could make him feel better, because my priority would be meeting his emotional needs, however they needed to be met. But when the dust had settled, and when I realized that my romantic partner had chosen to share all of those fears with his last girlfriend instead of me, I have to say that it would cut me like glass. I would not hold it against him or be angry, but I would be deeply wounded.

I really would rather my partner sleep with 100 different people than to shut me out emotionally like that.

Bay is hiding the truth from Emmett in the same way Ty always hid the truth from her. It is disrespectful, and it is the kiss of death for a close emotional relationship.
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I think she really meant that he'll always have her and it is still the case. At least, I hope. They aren't very close at the moment, but actually they are quite close (in general) compared to many teenagers. It is what make me believe they'll be together for long. Even if they break up, I can imagine them finding each other again in 5 or even 10 years, when they are more mature, and be a couple again.
That line "You'll always have me," proceeded by what they had just shared emotionally, told me, as a viewer, that Bay & Emmett had a very intimate relationship emotionally.

Every single thing that has happened (and more importantly, that has NOT happened) between Bay & Emmett, since that moment, tells me how distant they are emotionally.

I HAD thought that Bay's listening to Emmett about Angelo's living will was a sign that they are emotionally intimate, but Emmett was not there during any of the whole-family scenes in that episode, and while Bay DID listen to Emmett about the will, she also yelled at him and threw a fruit bowl across the room, and that's abusive.

I cut Bay some slack because she was losing her father, but after tonight's episode, and her not even so much as texting Emmett during her visit to Chicago in the LAST episode, I just do NOT see Bay as someone who has an emotionally close relationship with Emmett.

My guess is that, now that Bay & Emmett are back together as a couple, the reality of Emmett's cheating has left an emotional gulf between them.

In last night's episode, when Emmett got onto his motorcycle at Carlton, l couldn't help but feel that he deserves a fresh start with someone new.

When Bay said, "But I did something awful to Tank. And the least I can do is be there when he tells his dad that he's de-pledging....I owe it to him. We both do," what Bay was really saying is "Emmett, you did something awful to me."

And don't think for one minute Emmett didn't hear that message, because he DID hear it, despite being Deaf. Emmett got it. He knew what she meant. I could see it on his face.

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Actually, it wouldn't be hypocritical, it would be very sincere. Hypocrisy would be to pretend he doesn't care and is ok with that.
So very, very true. Anytime someone is being honest about their real emotions, that is the OPPOSITE of hypocrisy.

And Emmett wanted to be friends with Bay, after he cheated on her, because Emmett wanted to continue a romantic relationship with her.

What is Bay's reason for wanting to be friends with Tank after cheating on him?

Emmett HAS to ask himself that question. I completely understand Emmett not wanting Bay to continue a friendship with Tank.

Last edited by ollibear; 07-29-2014 at 10:16 AM
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Old 07-29-2014, 11:11 AM
  #33
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I think part of her holding on to the friendship she has with Tank makes her feel like she has some control over something in her life. She didn't get into Pratt, her bio dad died, and she is carrying the burden of fear that she might have the same condition that killed her father could very well make her want to "fix" what she feels like she broke. That does NOT excuse that she told Tank instead of Emmett about her medical crisis.
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Old 07-29-2014, 01:14 PM
  #34
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I really like toby and tanks' friendship.
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Old 07-29-2014, 02:43 PM
  #35
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I didn't really think that Bay or Tank were out of character last night...I know, not a popular opinion. But since day one of meeting him, she was always uncharacteristically open with him. Remember them outside the frat party? And she is the type that goes the extra mile for people she cares about. So I thought it was nice that they were getting back to what they originally were. I think Tank might have seemed a little off because he's showing more backbone. He was hurt, but at the end of the day he is a genuinely good guy. It's okay for him to be mad at Bay, at the end of the day she does deserve it. And it's okay for her to feel bad. She always cared about her and Tank always worked hard to help her when she needed it.

Just my opinion of course.

As for Emmett and Bay...I'm glad they are making it awkward. The characters both got hurt (Bay more) so they will have trust issues. And they took time to grow as people without being together. They have to take the time to figure out how they work together now. They can't have the same exact relationship. They are different people now.
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Old 07-29-2014, 04:37 PM
  #36
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I finally watched the episode.
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Old 07-29-2014, 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Kassiek (View Post)

As for Emmett and Bay...I'm glad they are making it awkward. The characters both got hurt (Bay more) so they will have trust issues. And they took time to grow as people without being together. They have to take the time to figure out how they work together now. They can't have the same exact relationship. They are different people now.
They're not making Bay and Emmett awkward, they had a fight..
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Old 07-29-2014, 05:07 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Kassiek (View Post)
I didn't really think that Bay or Tank were out of character last night...I know, not a popular opinion. But since day one of meeting him, she was always uncharacteristically open with him. Remember them outside the frat party? And she is the type that goes the extra mile for people she cares about. So I thought it was nice that they were getting back to what they originally were. I think Tank might have seemed a little off because he's showing more backbone. He was hurt, but at the end of the day he is a genuinely good guy. It's okay for him to be mad at Bay, at the end of the day she does deserve it. And it's okay for her to feel bad. She always cared about her and Tank always worked hard to help her when she needed it.

Just my opinion of course.
I agree that Bay was open with Tank from the beginning and that Bay goes the extra mile when she cares for someone.

But it seems strange for Tank to go from being rather self-centered (excusing the dog fight, making Bay feel guilty for not wanting to have sex, being upset with Bay for talking to Emmett about Ty's lie) to being a man who is selfless and forgiving of Bay's transgressions.

When Tank finally stood up to his dad, it was as if a switch flipped. He became a different character. It's not that he wasn't always a good guy, because you are right, basically Tank IS a good guy. But as they were exiting that restaurant, Tank became Prince Charming.
Tank: I'm sorry to put you in an awkward position.
Bay: It's okay.
Tank: No, it was really cool of you to come, especially after I was such an ass the other day.
Bay: I totally deserved it. And I'm really sorry for how everything ended. Can we go back to being friends?
Tank: Yeah, I would love that.
By the way, it's so sad to me that Bay and Emmett never communicate that effortlessly. I guess that's because of their language barrier. Or maybe it's something else. But it's sad to me.

Quote:
As for Emmett and Bay...I'm glad they are making it awkward. The characters both got hurt (Bay more) so they will have trust issues. And they took time to grow as people without being together. They have to take the time to figure out how they work together now. They can't have the same exact relationship. They are different people now.
Yes, awkward IS real.

And yes, Bay & Emmett cannot return to the same exact relationship. (I wouldn't want them to do that anyway.)

But would it have hurt the writers to show us one more Bay & Emmett kiss in the last SEVEN episodes? We've only seen one kiss, since they became a couple.

Or would it have hurt the writers to show us one more conversation?

Bay & Emmett had a couple of sweet moments together in Episode 3x14. Their words to each other at the end of that episode held a lot of meaning.

But at the beginning of that episode, Bay pushed Emmett away the first two times he tried to kiss her. Emmett managed to sneak one quick kiss, and that is the only kiss they have shared as a couple this season (3B).

I understand that in 3x15 Toby returned and there wasn't room for Emmett's character in that episode.

I understand that in 3x16, Angelo was dying and Bay expressed more anger at Emmett than anything else.

I understand that in 3x17, Bay went to Chicago and didn't see Emmett.

I understand that in 3x18, Bay was feeling guilty about cheating on Tank and alleviating that guilt took precedence over celebrating Emmett's admission to Gallaudet.

But last night, Travis said that they are three weeks away from their high school graduation. Bay & Emmett made love last fall (winter at the VERY latest).

So in all of this time, Bay couldn't tell Emmett that she didn't get into Pratt? It was obvious he doesn't know.

Bay couldn't text Emmett (perhaps while she was in Chicago) to say, "I miss you," or mention him to Daphne or Toby.

Oh, I know, we are supposed to assume that Bay did all of that. But would it hurt the writers to let us see evidence of SOMETHING?

We have no indication one way or another as to whether Bay & Emmett have even continued their sexual relationship. Yet, last night, we saw an indication that Daphne & Nacho are starting one. Ditto Lilly & Toby.

If the writers do not want to show us Bay & Emmett on a date at a restaurant, I can understand that. After all, Bay & Tank's dinner advanced the plot and further developed the characters.

But I would like for ONE of the characters to at least mention in dialogue that Bay & Emmett are doing things together. For instance, Kathryn could tell John that Bay's over at Emmett's house one evening.

Just something would be nice. Anything.

We have now seen Melody & Gabe kiss more than Bay & Emmett this season. Cameron & Debbie have kissed more than Bay & Emmett. Mary Beth & Travis have kissed more than Bay & Emmett. Daphne & Nacho have kissed more than Bay & Emmett.

Heck, next week, Regina & Kathryn will have kissed as much (and maybe more) than Bay & Emmett.

I'm disappointed.

Last edited by ollibear; 07-29-2014 at 05:14 PM
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Old 07-29-2014, 05:20 PM
  #39
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I finally watched the episode.
so what are your thoughts.
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Old 07-29-2014, 05:41 PM
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so what are your thoughts.
I think having almost 24 hours to process it before watching was helpful. There were parts that were disappointing. A big part was the lack of Emmett and Bay & Emmett, but I guess I was anticipating worse?

I don't know.

Do I wish Bay had confided in Emmett instead of Tank? Yes. Of course. If I look at it objectively though, it makes sense. There's no stake in her relationship with Tank. He's not involved in the situation, not really. He's an outsider and in some ways, that makes it easier.

With Emmett, there's a lot to consider. It's not just that she's in denial and scared; she is, but she loves Emmett and knows how much Emmett loves her. It's not like Bay has a terminal disease where she and Emmett are going into it knowing she only has X amount of time left, even if it's an undetermined amount of time, like six months to a year. This is something that may never happen or it may happen and that's kind of harder to process.

I'm not even sure what I'm saying. Just that while I want Bay to lean on Emmett, I can understand why it's easier telling someone removed from the situation. Doesn't mean I like it, but trying to wrap my head around it.

As far as other aspects of the episode, I liked that Toby still has a connection to Sharee. Not sure about him and Lily and where that will go or if it should go somewhere so soon after his divorce.

Daphne and Nacho is just going to end in disaster.

It definitely sucks to get rejected from where you want to go, but then again, college isn't for everyone.

Regina and this East Riverside Project just needs to end. Sigh.

I'm interested in seeing where this satellite school idea goes.
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Old 07-29-2014, 05:42 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by ollibear (View Post)

We have now seen Melody & Gabe kiss more than Bay & Emmett this season. Cameron & Debbie have kissed more than Bay & Emmett. Mary Beth & Travis have kissed more than Bay & Emmett. Daphne & Nacho have kissed more than Bay & Emmett.

Heck, next week, Regina & Kathryn will have kissed as much (and maybe more) than Bay & Emmett.

I'm disappointed.
Agree with everything you said and I am disappointed too.
Each time there is an outstanding couple in a show, it seems that the writers give them less screen time than any other couples. I remember in The Borgias, there was lot of sex scenes, including orgies with prostitutes...but our favourite couple had only one sex scene in the entire show ! I have noticed that it is often like that. The more we love a couple, the less we see them, like if the writers want us to root for them more and keep us hanging on. I must admit it works well for me. I am now afraid for the future of Bemmett and it makes me ship them more, whereas before I was perhaps a bit more tedious.
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Old 07-29-2014, 08:06 PM
  #42
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Do I wish Bay had confided in Emmett instead of Tank? Yes. Of course. If I look at it objectively though, it makes sense. There's no stake in her relationship with Tank. He's not involved in the situation, not really. He's an outsider and in some ways, that makes it easier.
I agree with this entirely. Humans tend to find it easier to confide in strangers. I've been there. Florence and The Machine has written a song about it. And we saw Bay do it with Tank very early on.
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Old 07-29-2014, 09:36 PM
  #43
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After being sooo angry last night about the lack of Bemmett, and Bay confiding in Tank before Emmett...I kinda, sorta get it. It still sucks. But i get it. She's been in denial about it and fears that talking about it will make it real. I think too, it's not that she doesn't want to tell Emmett..I think she's worried how it will effect them. Almost like she's scared to tell him that he could lose her one day, and there's nothing either of them can do about it. It may happen tomorrow or it may happen never..Bay dying doesn't really effect Tank, not in the way it would Emmett. Idk..
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Old 10-04-2014, 08:45 PM
  #44
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Went back and re-watched this episode tonight, and I resent it so much. I resent it every bit as much as Drive in the Knife.

It still bothers me that the music from Bay & Emmett's first prom night is playing right after Tank's father tells the two love birds (Bay and Tank) to sit closer together.

What is the symbolism of THAT?

I remember during Season 1B when Emmett treated Bay so cavalierly (not returning her texts, walking away from her when she was trying to talk to him, being a general jackass).

In Season 3B, Bay treated Emmett cavalierly, too. I'm weary of these two doing these sorts of things to each other.

I could understand it better when Bay did it during Season 2A. Emmett had cheated on her. They were not in a relationship. They didn't even have a friendship at that point.

It bothered me, but I could understand it then.

But in Season 3B, Bay & Emmett WERE together. Yes, Angelo died, and yes, Bay was scared about her possible aneurysm, but I did not like seeing her go out to dinner with Tank and tell him about her aneurysm. I did not like seeing her keep the aneurysm secret from Emmett. I did not like Bay ignoring Emmett's text the night she had dinner with Tank. I did not like seeing Bay stand up Emmett at their graduation party OR take the fall for Daphne without letting him know first.

I am sure my feelings are exactly how the writers want me to react, which disappoints me even more. Why do Bay & Emmett have to treat each other so poorly?

Yes, humans trample on the feelings of others much of the time, but sometimes, humans (especially those who are sincerely in love) treat each other well.

Why can't we see more of that here and there? Why does it always have to be so much grief with Bay & Emmett?

I understand that conflict makes for a good story, but I want to see them facing conflict together. These plot turns where they are disrespectful to their beautiful relationship have me fed up and disappointed.
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Old 03-28-2015, 07:56 AM
  #45
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Went back and re-watched this episode tonight, and I resent it so much. I resent it every bit as much as Drive in the Knife.

It still bothers me that the music from Bay & Emmett's first prom night is playing right after Tank's father tells the two love birds (Bay and Tank) to sit closer together.

What is the symbolism of THAT?

I remember during Season 1B when Emmett treated Bay so cavalierly (not returning her texts, walking away from her when she was trying to talk to him, being a general jackass).

In Season 3B, Bay treated Emmett cavalierly, too. I'm weary of these two doing these sorts of things to each other.

I could understand it better when Bay did it during Season 2A. Emmett had cheated on her. They were not in a relationship. They didn't even have a friendship at that point.

It bothered me, but I could understand it then.

But in Season 3B, Bay & Emmett WERE together. Yes, Angelo died, and yes, Bay was scared about her possible aneurysm, but I did not like seeing her go out to dinner with Tank and tell him about her aneurysm. I did not like seeing her keep the aneurysm secret from Emmett. I did not like Bay ignoring Emmett's text the night she had dinner with Tank. I did not like seeing Bay stand up Emmett at their graduation party OR take the fall for Daphne without letting him know first.

I am sure my feelings are exactly how the writers want me to react, which disappoints me even more. Why do Bay & Emmett have to treat each other so poorly?

Yes, humans trample on the feelings of others much of the time, but sometimes, humans (especially those who are sincerely in love) treat each other well.

Why can't we see more of that here and there? Why does it always have to be so much grief with Bay & Emmett?

I understand that conflict makes for a good story, but I want to see them facing conflict together. These plot turns where they are disrespectful to their beautiful relationship have me fed up and disappointed.
I am still thinking about this episode.

I hope, at some point this summer, Bay reflects on her choices.

We never got to see Emmett reflect on all of his stupid choices, in Season 1B. He's not the star of the show, so we never got to see the real work that he did, in order to grow and become a better person and a better partner to Bay. But he did do that work, and I think he was a good partner to Bay, during their second relationship.

It bothers me to read on this board (and the spoiler board) that Emmett did not treat Bay well. I don't see that. I disagree with all of the complaints.

So Emmett didn't want to talk about the rape. Who would?

He's only nineteen. He doesn't have the maturity of someone older. Rape is painful and scary and heartbreaking. Yes, Emmett should be there for Bay, but he WAS.

Emmett was willing to leave school and return home to be with Bay.

When Bay insisted that they talk about it, that Emmett listen to her share the details of what happened, he did. He gave her his full attention.

I don't blame Emmett for not being okay with what happened between Bay and Tank.

This situation is NOT as simple as saying, "Oh, well, Emmett cheated on Bay, so now, he has to forgive her." Emmett is not refusing to forgive Bay. On the beach, he even said that, in a few years, they might get back together. He is not holding a grudge.

This situation is about Emmett not being sure of how strong Bay's feelings are for him and how strong his feelings are for her.

Everything that happened, from Bay taking the fall for Daphne, to partying at the dorm with Tank, has taken a hit on Emmett's confidence in them as a couple.

How could anyone blame Emmett for that?

Who would be completely confident in a relationship with someone who has made the choices Bay has made?

To me, the show would have been unrealistic, if on the beach, Emmett had told Bay to pack her bags and move to LA, that he loves her, and together, they will get through anything.

Emmett would be foolhardy to have done that. Bay has been impulsive and conflicted. She needs to figure out her direction in life, before she commits to a relationship. And moving 2000 miles is a commitment.

And Emmett didn't rub Bay's nose in his happiness, when he returned home for his surprise visit in Episode 4. He was happy, but he had all of this great stuff happening. He should not have walked off during their argument, but I don't think that makes him an awful person. He texted Bay an apology as soon as he got back to LA. He apologized again, the next time he video-conferenced with her. He knew that was wrong.

Long-distance relationships are tough, and Emmett never asked for one. If he had known that Bay was not going to be moving to LA with him, he would not have chosen USC. And the toughest part of a long-distance relationship is saying goodbye. I can understand why Emmett left in the middle of their argument. It's easier to leave when you are angry, than it is when you are not. And leaving is REALLY hard to do.

And Emmett's movie short does not bother me at all.

We saw the end, on the beach. We saw the part that Emmett did not want Bay to see. The only thing Emmett took from Bay's life was their scene together in the rain. And it was his scene, too.

The whole thing with Bay and Tank is a huge gray area, and this episode ("It Isn't What You Think") is where it started gaining steam.

Personally, I believe that if people choose to drink, then people need to be responsible for their actions while they drink (and that includes consenting to sex). I don't subscribe to the "someone-drunk-cannot-consent" reasoning. But even if I did subscribe to that reasoning, I would still have a problem with the whole Bay and Tank thing, because it wasn't just about sex. There was more to it than that.

I don't know what was going on in Bay's mind, when it comes to Tank, but I do think that is something Bay needs to explore. Even if there is never another opportunity for Bay and Emmett to rekindle their love, Bay needs to figure out WHAT was going on in her mind, when it comes to Tank.
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