Jinzle

I respectfully disagree. Rumple was not responsible for her imprisonment. That was 100% Regina. Rumple thought she was dead and (IMO) blamed himself because he had sent her away. Cora choosing power over him and losing Bae are just some of the tragedies that he went through after gaining power. His power protected him against physical harm, but not emotional harm. Yes, I know it was entirely his fault he lost Bae, but as a parent I know how I would feel losing a child. Especially if it were my fault. IF you break your leg and there is no doctor to set it and it mended crooked, are you to blame for walking 300 years with a limp? Finally a doctor (Belle) comes and sets the leg. Do you immediately walk on it without any pain or limp? Or do you go through Rehab? Right now Rumple is in a type of Rehab. He is trying to be strong. He is trying to be the man he KNOWS Belle deserves. He will become that man. I have faith in him. I have faith in Belle.

Austenphile

Yeah we have to agree to disagree other than the fact that it wasn't Rumple's fault Belle was imprisoned. My point is that Belle needs as much as he does but it's always about how she helps him, so unequal, even with most fans. I used to like them together but I am tired of watching a good woman give and give and give.

ETA That said he makes a great villain.

Seamstress90

I would say that when you are, or do something long enough, it becomes a part of who you are. Rumple has had the power of the DO for centuries (while he was a mortal man just for a few decades), so of course it has become a part of him. I don't think it's possible for him to ever be completely rid of that side of him. He will always be a man who loves power and is willing to do anything it takes to protect those he loves. But that doesn't necessarily make him a villain (if it did, he wouldn't have been able to pull Excalibur from the stone). He can become a better version of himself, make sure he puts his family before power (which doesn't necessarily have to mean he has to give it up), and eventually turn the darkness into light (and become the Light One?). Right now he thinks he can't do it, but I think he will surprise himself. I don't know if it happens this season, but it will eventually. I'm sure of it. It's a slow burn redemption arc (A gradual process, as Rumple would say), and I actually like it that way.

Against_all_odds

He's involved with every single storyline,even when it makes absolutely no logical sense for him to do so. Even Henry called in one episode and it made me die laughing. I don't get why everyone has to be connected to him,either. I know that he's the writers favorite,but they have more than enough material without shoving him into everything. He magically gets away with stuff none of the other characters can. He's seemingly invincible even though Regina and anyone else would easily get killed or suffer if it were them. He meets every single criteria for a Gary Stu known to man. Neal should have been given a storyline independent of his father, but he didn't really get much,imho.

What Jingle said makes sense,but Austinphile said is absolutely true. What about Belle's feelings? Rumple takes and takes and the truth is,the man is a sociopath. He wants to believe that he's capable of feeling the kind of true,unselfish love his wife feels for him,but he can't. It's toxic and unfair to make a good woman have such a difficult and draining relationship. She has a child to think about and that kid will wind up just like Bae. Rumple never meant to hurt Bae,but he can't stop being who he is. He's a taker and if he'd open his eyes,he'd realize that he has a grandson,a wife and a new child in his life to fill those gaps that were hollow before.

Jinzle

Well to be truthful. Henry has never expressed any interest in his paternal grandfather, expect to snoop for his mother. Rumple has shown he cares for Belle and I disagree with the Gary Stu label or him being a sociopath. The definition of a sociopath is "a person with a personality disorder manifesting itself in extreme antisocial attitudes and behavior and a lack of conscience." None of these tendencies he has exhibited. Yes he a greatly flawed man, but he has not demonstrated himself to be antisocial or lacking a conscience. If that were true, he would have left Henry in Neverland, never spared Robin's life, die to protect his family, or give up Belle to Will because he was thinking of her happiness, not his own. Nor does he have the omniscience that a true Gary Stu would have (think Wesley Crusher or Seven of Nine). In fact the writers have made him look kinda foolish. He spent so many years trying to find a way to get to Bae and there were beans and slippers and doorways and whatever that in 300 years he failed to discover.

obisgirl

I really enjoyed this episode. Once's bread and butter are these character-centric stories. Zelena, Cora and Regina -- all of their performances were excellent.

If this is the last time we ever see Barbara Hershey on this show, I think it was a great send-off and good closure for her character. I liked how she finally learned and accepted that love is strength, she took ownership of causing pain to both of her daughters and healed their relationship, recovering their lost time together.

I love Bex and Lana's performance too. The moment both of these ladies started crying once they remembered, I started crying too! Everything between the Mills' women was perfect and so beautiful executed.

The stuff with Prince James and David was a little rushed but I liked the contrasting relationships. There's Zelena and Regina' broken relationship and the healing that happens because of Cora, and the fact that James couldn't be saved. Cruella as always is a joy. She could be sassy about anything and I would still love her performance. I think she's going to be the character I'll miss the most once this half arc is done.

I liked seeing the Mills' sister reunion and reconciling finally.

The only thing that bothered me was a timeline related issue. In the flashback, there's Barbara Hershey and an elderly Henry Sr., and I'm like, okay, Regina is still a child. Those two characters shouldn't be aged that much. Other than that, I really enjoyed this episode.

fox24

My two cents on exalibour is I think you need potential for good and bad to pull it it's how Arthur, Gold, and Nimue were able to pull the sword or drink from the cup. It doesn't always mean pure hero.


I don't believe gold made an effort to bond with henry post s3.

I do believe if rumple can be redeemed has to be willing to give up powe. He could get it back but I feel he needs to be willing to live without it

Against_all_odds

Then how do you explain that nonsense with Frankenstein? If he's so terrified of a world without magic and he needed Regina to cast that spell,how the hell did he get there? Even Henry was baffled and said that Frankenstein wasn't in the storybook.

Why is he always connected to every single story? Can't some thing just be stand alone? For once,I'd like a character's storyline or scenes to not involve him,he connected to him or have him be a key element.

It feels like the writers are madly in love with him. The only characters I think they love as much are Regina and Emma. I used to think it was Snowing,but Snowing hasn't gotten what they used to.

With Belle,it's like Austenphile said-He's a taker. We get that Rumple has problems,but what about Belle? Don't hers count? Doesn't her pain and her needs count? She can only be so strong for so long and she can't be his rock all the time. She's going to have to be there for him and their baby now and it's not going to be easy trying to beg him to not be dark an evil and make sure that her baby is a hero/heroine.

If they mature the way you think they will I'll be a happy camper,but she gives more than she gets.

Jinzle

Confused as this has nothing to do with Belle and I am not sure your point here.

Because he is one of the main characters, as are Regina and Emma. In fact I would say that Regina and Emma are in almost every episode, Rumple is not.

In what true life relationship is 50/50? There is no such relationship. During certain periods of a relationship it can be as little as it is 100/0. He is trying. Since pulling the sword from the stone he has not used any dark magic. Not that he gets any credit for that. Even at his absolute worse, I'd take him over any of the heroes.


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He died to protect Henry (as well as Bae and Belle). What effort has Henry made at having a relationship with Rumple? Rarely does he even acknowledge him as his grandfather unless he wants something. He goes as far as calling him "Gold" which is rude from an adult, let alone a child.

fox24

PEveryone calls him Gold actually Henry called him Grandpa in s5 and said he showed he changed. I do believe that it's the adult who has to do the bonding both regina and Hook ask if they could spend time with Henry in 3b. In 4a cause I don't count 3b when he was enslaved did Gold ever go to the Charmings or emma and ask if he could take Henry for icecream or to the movies. In 4b he let henry be taken by Cruella yes she couldn't kill but she could traumatize him and main him. Cruella did cut the Charmings hands.
In 4.22 i pretty sure he could have asked isaac to give henry protection in the au but he didn't

Rumple has used dark magic since exalibouur. Pushing Milah into the river when she wasent attacking and force choking Gaston

scififan2009

Gold said he's not interested in helping with Operation Firebird. He and Henry are not on the same side. So they have nothing to say to each other. Besides, Henry's first loyalty should be to his mothers and Snow and Charming. Not to the man who has done nothing but bring them all misery.

Austenphile

Rumple's not any more a main character than Hook, Charming, Snow, or Henry. He is the main antagonist so he's been directly related to every storyline as far as causing problems for the rest of the gang, including this last episode. But you're right that all the other main characters have been in more episodes than he has.

First of all, calling someone by their last name isn't considered rude in most cultures. In fact, many call it a sign of camaraderie so that argument holds no water. By that logic, Hook calling Emma "Swan" would be rude. The entire military would be rude Rumple taunting all of them all the time saying what failures they are and how much better he is than them is far more rude.

Rumple never said he was dying to protect Henry. He went to NVL for Bae when he died, he specifically said it was for Belle and Bae. In fact, he has tried to kill Henry on multiple occasions not to mention helping Isaac write the AU that left Henry completely alone and abandoned. And then there's the attempted murder of all Henry's family members. The only time he was even slightly interested in Henry was when he tried to use Henry recreate his relationship with Bae. Even in this arc, he isn't interested at all in Henry's safety and has been shown willing to leave him in the UW forever. Henry's a teen boy; it shouldn't be his responsibility to make nice with the man who has tried to kill him and the rest of his family.

And we're definitely going to have to agree to disagree about taking Rumple over the rest of the heroes.

Jinzle

What I meant is he is one of the original main characters. But truthfully, Hook has more screen time than Rumple even if he is standing around doing nothing with no lines. (That's not a slam on Hook, but more of a comment regarding writing.) He only tried to kill Henry once, at the swing set. Not in anyway condoning that behavior. Rumple was near death when Issac asked him what he wanted in the story. Rumple only asked that he'd be a man Bae would be proud of. Everything else that happened was pure Issac, not Rumple. Rumple had no way of knowing Issac would write the story the way he did. Henry called him Grandpa in One episode. In the very next he was back to calling him Gold. This is what alerted be before the big reveal, that something was up with Rumple. Perhaps where you live calling an elder, especially a family member, by their last name is acceptable, but in the South doing so without any prefix is the height of rudeness and disrespect. And as an adult, only someone who is very close to you would use only your last name. In fact, where I work, even my bosses call me Miss Jinzle because I am an "older" person and it is considered respectful.

I can accept your not liking Rumple, and that's ok. Not to bash, but I can't stand Emma. Sets my teeth on edge when I see her. Every time Henry introduces her as his "real mom" I want to punch the TV.

Austenphile

I live in the South, and grew up in the South But I have lived in England and California and been friends with people from a lot of different backgrounds. In fact when we lived in CA, my children were accused of being sarcastic and rude for saying "Miss Dena" or "ma'am" to older people.

And I don't dislike Rumple so much as love him as the villain I see him portrayed, like Cora, Pan or Cruella.

Jinzle

LMAO I can understand. I forget how many push ups I had to do in basic for saying,"yes sir".