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Old 12-07-2013, 09:50 AM
  #46
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What the hell is his game plan at this point? He's an eleven year old now, which means that he'll be watched like a hawk.
At this point, I think he's so surprised by the failure of his plan that he's desperate. Survival instinct is kicking in for him now. I don't think it's even a matter of fun and games for him anymore, his mind is going back to Malcolm's selfishness. Whether or not he plans to play and pit everyone against each other, he knows he's on shaky ground... out of his element. Desperation may make him even more violent than he was before.
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Old 12-07-2013, 10:12 AM
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At this point, I think he's so surprised by the failure of his plan that he's desperate. Survival instinct is kicking in for him now. I don't think it's even a matter of fun and games for him anymore, his mind is going back to Malcolm's selfishness. Whether or not he plans to play and pit everyone against each other, he knows he's on shaky ground... out of his element. Desperation may make him even more violent than he was before.


I agree, because the preview showed Henry outside the box as Peter. I don't get how he planned Henry's birth and death so carefully, yet he didn't plan for a backup. I don't see how he can pass himself off as Henry for long. The fact that he has so many people to get through this time is a giant obstacle to overcome.

p.s. I that Captain Swan icon. She and Neal are boring together.
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Old 12-07-2013, 12:29 PM
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No, not necessarily. Snow White and Charming are perfect, since he has no backstory and we didn't know how she was before she found the dwarves. Belle is the same, she just fell in love with Rumple. I've never been thrilled about putting him in so many stories, but her character is the same. Gipetto(sp?) is the same and they only changed August by so much.

They also did a great job with Archie and Granny and Ruby are faithful because they're using "Snow White and Red Rose" as one of their sources.

People are pissed off about Peter because even if Rumplestiltskin has gotten changed by a lot, his character hasn't been warped as far as his personality.

I don't think Hook was off-base. None of us knew what his life was like before Neverland and the only part that annoyed me was that Rumple was the crocodile. Even then, it didn't ruin Hook's characterization.

I loved their version of Peter until they made him an adult. Peter can be dark based on various interpretations, but the key portion was him being a child when he got to Neverland.

The writer's aren't perfect, you know. Everyone criticized the Cinderella thing, Whale left zoo after they figured out who he was and even Henry got confused and said that he's not in the book.
Do we know for a fact that they've used Snow White and Rose Red as a basis for the characters? I'm interested because I've never seen anyone actually ask them.

And, they've actually completely ruined Hook's characterisation. Hook was a raised as a gentleman, a real gentleman, with a British Public School education (he went to Eton, which is as public school as you can get). Public schools are the top private schools in the country, and Eton is generally regarded the top one of them all (YMMV - As a former student of another public school, I naturally disagree as a point of honour )

By the time of Peter Pan, he's middle aged, increasingly mentally unstable (witness the paranoia about the crocodile hunting him and his death), and obsesses about whether he or Pan has better manners. This version of Hook is none of that. And no matter how they spin it, he does not have good form. They parrot the words but they have no real understanding of the meaning of them.

They should have just called him John Sparrow and been honest about it, rather than trying to play him off as their 'interpretation' of the original Barrie character.

I agree about your comments on Peter though, they've ruined the entire point of Peter Pan by making him an adult, with adult understanding and emotions, rather than the child spirit of the original. Wanting to be a child again is totally different to not wanting to grow up.

It's like they've only seen a bad copy of the Disney version that missed out whole chunks, and thought they'd just fill in the blanks with bits from other popular movies, without actually bothering to Google, let alone read the original material.
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Old 12-07-2013, 01:42 PM
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Ok, you have a point about Hook. The Milah thing annoyed me and she wasn't worth the trouble. Neither of them needed her and he could have found someone better to mourn.I was glad she died, tbh.

Hook seemed somewhat in character at first because he was a devious bad guy, Emma couldn't trust him and he was all about getting the "crocodile".

I didn't like him at first. CD is hot, but you're right-They may as well have called him John Sparrow. A friend of mine wondered when Walgreen's was going to call-They want their guyliner back.

Someone mentioned Snow White and Red Rose, so I didn't raise an eyebrow about her relationship with Ruby.

I think I changed my mind because he's a woobie now. I liked that he said Pan was a demon, though. Part of me needs to believe that magic made Malcolm a demon.

Gold shouldn't have bothered with him-He was trivial and his wife was a stupid cow who hurt Bae emotionally.
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Old 12-08-2013, 09:20 AM
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Old 12-08-2013, 11:13 AM
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OMG! How do he and Nina Dobrev know each other?

He was such a cutie when he was a kid!
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Old 12-08-2013, 11:59 AM
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Aww so cute

Looking forward to seeing Robbie as Henry tonight
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Old 12-08-2013, 03:09 PM
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I agree, because the preview showed Henry outside the box as Peter. I don't get how he planned Henry's birth and death so carefully, yet he didn't plan for a backup. I don't see how he can pass himself off as Henry for long. The fact that he has so many people to get through this time is a giant obstacle to overcome.
The only thing that makes sense to me is that Pan had some source of future info--maybe the Shadow, maybe something else--that was able to feed him Henry specific information. It's also worth remembering that Pan remains a grade A manipulator who wants to be top dog. Being perceived as always winning is probably more important to him than winning itself. Also, if Pan didn't get all the information he needed at once (his knowing everything act was just that, an act), his actions make a bit more sense.

My guess is that Pan didn't know about Bae's son being the one he needed when he first took Bae. Pan's relationship with Rumple remains confused. Malcolm was mainly selfish, but Pan seems more sociopathic. A sociopath might not care about his son but he might feel possessive towards him. Going after Bae at that point might have really been about exercising control over Rumple. It could also be, if Pan didn't know about Henry and his heart at this point, he became interested in Rumple when he gained his powers. Pan may have wanted to manipulate him (Rumple said he could keep Belle from aging) or take his powers (yes, it would involve killing his only son. I don't see him having a problem with that).

By the time Pan goes after Bae in London, he knows enough to have Henry's sketch. He has to compare it to Bae either because he actually hadn't paid enough attention to remember what Bae looked like (possible) or it was part of manipulating the Lost Boys. He'd gone through a lot of trouble to get Bae but had no particular use for him once he was in NL. In fact, he had the extra problem of making sure Bae didn't come to harm (or not fatally) without letting Bae (or anyone else who might use it against him) know why he'd brought Bae there. Being able to compare Bae to a picture and then dismiss him as not the one meant he didn't have to give bigger explanations or risk looking like he'd made a dumb mistake.

By the way, I'd like to think Pan had a plan to let Bae escape but that Bae did it on his own. Pan just tried to take credit later for the psychological effect. After all, Rumple can't be the only one to think of making a deal for firstborns. Tricking or conning Bae into agreeing to give up Henry before he'd been born would have been right up Pan's alley.

It makes me wonder, though, about the timing of Hook leaving NL. It was right before the curse was cast. Hook also knew enough to realize Belle was Regina's prisoner (something Rumple didn't know) and that she would be a good source of information for finding the dagger and killing Rumple. If Rumple was dead long before the curse was ever cast, he'd never come looking for Bae--or any possible children Bae might have.

So, Bae gets to our world and Pan keeps tabs on him. He probably realizes Emma is the savior, etc. Maybe, at first, Pan was delighted with how things were working out. With his own track record, Malcolm/Pan might have assumed it would be easy to get Bae to dump a pregnant, teenage girlfriend. Once Bae proved he was actually ready to settle down with her, Pan conned August into breaking them up.

Which means, now I think of it, Pan may have been hoping he could derail Emma as savior. After all, while Emma's life before this hadn't left her full of faith in her fellow man, this was the bit that really squelched it. If it hadn't been for Henry coming to get her, I don't think she'd ever have come near SB--and Pan's plan wouldn't have had Henry anywhere near SB.

So, in conclusion, I think Pan is a good manipulator, but he pretends to be a lot better than he is.

His Achilles heel may be that he buys his own hype. Other than manipulating the rescue team, in the past three centuries, his manipulations have been limited to messing with pirates (on an island where he controls most of the variables), controlling the Lost Boys (kidnapped children with something like Stockholm Syndrome, convinced of Pan's hype), and working to get one boy in particular to NL, which he still nearly messed up on.

Doubt me on the mess-up? Neal came close to sticking by Emma before Henry was born. August stopped to see Neal before going to SB and Neal seems to have thought about whether or not to go, then. He thought about it again when he got August's message that the curse was broken. Pan also failed twice to get Henry as a baby (Regina and the family before her both beat Pan's agents).
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Old 12-08-2013, 04:33 PM
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You have some really good points, but Peter is larger than life and unless the theories everyone has come up with pop up, I'm tired of him. I don't see him having a problem killing his own son, but I don't get how Malcolm became Peter. They were both so different and if that's how Malcolm was as a teenager, why did he change so much?

I wish they had shown Tiger Lily or a stronger Wendy. The "Lost Girl" joke was apt, but Emma is enough of a BAMF to show all the boys up. Sometimes I wonder if he just needed male energy or he's afraid of women.

I'd rather Bae have escaped on his own. He was scrappy and thought for himself. It's Peter's seemingly endless contacts and omni-present b.s. that makes me wonder, though.

I would love if he had those fatal flaws. At least it would knock him down a peg and make him seem more realistic. all the other villains have had a lot more depth and dimension, even if Hook's characterization probably did get messed up.

The only think that irks me more than Peter's persona is Felix existing only to keep uttering "Pan always wins." Dude, we get it-You're his #2.
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Old 12-08-2013, 04:55 PM
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OMG! How do he and Nina Dobrev know each other?
Not sure exactly when this was. She looks really young so I would assume it was sometime in-between her Degrassi days.
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Old 12-08-2013, 07:04 PM
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Ah, it probably is.

Robby was on so briefly, but he was awesome. Now, Henry!Pan wasn't. Not only did he fail to seem menacing, he seemed like a child hipster who thought smiling was mainstream.
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Old 12-08-2013, 07:17 PM
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I loveeeee Pan can you add me too please?
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Old 12-08-2013, 07:33 PM
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I liked the BodyPan!Henry much better than the BodyHenry!Pan. RK was great in tonight's episode!
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Old 12-08-2013, 09:16 PM
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Yep. I can't wait for Pan to leave, but look forward to Robbie's final appearance.
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Old 12-09-2013, 04:05 AM
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Great work by Robbie in last night's eppy
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