phoenix_shine

Heather I can see why this whole thing upsets you and I can definitely understand the ambiguity this situation creates. I won't try to change your mind, we are all entitled to our opinions and yours is perfectly legit . However, I'd say don't take this this seriously until at least you get to watch the next episode. Personally, I really want to know what happens afterwards and what will be Robin and Regina's reactions to what has occured between them. What has happened has happened, but where they go from now on and how they choose to handle things now that their hearts are openly given to one another, that's the real deal now.

I truly believe that Robin is going to be as respectful to Marian as he can be. I'd even say that this kiss constitutes as a moment of "weakness", but it's not exactly what the term stands for, this situation is nothing but regular so no regular forms of speech can apply. For what is worth, I don't think that what happened makes either of them any less honourable, truthful, righteous or good. Both tried to stay away, and walk by that code. They HAVE been truthful, righteous and good! None of them lied to Marian, she knew all along that her husband was in a relationship with Regina and she probably even knew that even if he stayed with her, his heart lied elsewhere. And she also saw how both these people have changed during the time she has missed. What he said means that IF sometime, in the future Robin has to throw all these things away for Regina, then he is willing to do so. And now he feels that this is what he's doing, he's defying the code, because he still feels bound to his wife (even if BY LAW he is not).

But the way I see it, he is being more truthful, righteous and good now than what he was in the premiere, because NOW he is choosing correctly, not according to what us, fans want, but what his own heart wants. He should have made the same choice ever since then. Back in the premiere he chose to stay with Marian, but what good did that choice provide them? None! In the end, he was suffering, Regina was suffering, Marian did not have her old husband with her, but only a shadow of that man... How was that any more right?

Anyway, my point is, wait till you see how this gets resolved and don't get disappointed

I have to say that with all of Elsa's attention on Emma, I hadn't noticed all these parallels you just mentioned! Good catch dearie!! Somehow, I feel that Regina WANTS Robin to keep looking for a cure for Marian. I think she feels responsible for her safety, because she made a promise to find a cure for her and she still hasn't managed to do so. So, if Robin searches for a cure, I think Regina will approve!

GrhmLz

Thank you for trying to understand. It is just harder for me right now because I know most OQ fans are very happy with how things transpired this past episode and I acknowledge that my viewpoint is in the minority opinion, although there are a few others out there too

I know hindsight is 20/20 and what's done is done but just in reflecting back, I really would have appreciated it more if Robin had not been so hasty with his decision-making. I think he should have stepped back from both women, not making any promises, speeches, or committments to either one until he really sorted out the confusion. This would have made perfect sense, nobody would expect anybody in this predicament to sort their feelings out overnight. Next, Marian should have been told the entire truth, which I am not truly convinced she is aware of the entire extent of it {soulmates & him not loving her}, and then have it explained to her why he was choosing Regina in the present. She would have been hurt, sure, but in the long term, I think it would have been less damaging then what is occuring now, in my opinion.

You are right, we do not know yet what will transpire next episode and I will have to watch and gauge for my reaction, lol. I personally would like an acknowledgement that it was a mistake, not because he feels how he feels or that he loves her, that is not the mistake, but because the timing to act on it I feel was way off, until this is resolved with Marian first. Marian does deserve at least that much, she did nothing wrong in the situation.

Throughout this, I have admired Regina's steadfastness in standing by doing the right thing. Out of the two, I would expect her to react to what just happened and maybe pull away until things are fixed. At this point, it is just WAY confusing how this curse will break and how the Marian situation will be resolved.

DR76

If Robin had done that . . . he would boring. Thank God he turned out to be not as perfect as many seemed to want him to be.

And I don't think Robin can tell Marian . . . yet. She is still in a frozen state.

Maggie_R

Chris - I agree with everything in your post. We are thinking alike again.

Heather (I guess I should start using your real name instead of your screen name? ) - my apologies if my post came across as not sympathetic to a different point of view, as I did not intend that. To be honest, I was attempting to express my opinion without trying to convince anyone to change theirs. Because while I do my best to understand other points of view, I know that sometimes you have to just agree to disagree. And that's fine, as Chris said, all opinions are legit!

I agree with Chris that in some of this we have to wait until the next episode to see where things go, and most likely even beyond that. This is an ongoing story and who knows what twist they will come up with next. And for this week, at least, I'm happy to be along for the ride.

I must admit I enjoyed Dark!Robin at Granny's. I thought Sean did a wonderful job with that scene, and as much as I loved the calm and strong Robin from Season 3, I'd like to see more of this conflicted, flawed and passionate Robin.

GrhmLz

I disagree.

I think 'faithfulness' gets confused with the idea of 'perfection' as there are plenty of 'imperfect characters' who do not committ adultery.

Also, any suggestion, in my opinion, that pushes the idea that characters who hold to standards are boring, or just because imperfections exist that they should be rooted for or embraced, to me, is flawed reasoning. Sorry. I just do not share that perspective. I can admit that Robin is flawed and not like what I see at the same time. I would also advocate that with Regina. I love her, she is my favorite character, and I find her background sympathetic. I relate to how she became who she was but that does not mean I embraced the evil or bad acts committed by her in the name of 'imperfection.'

Marian may be in a frozen state NOW, but that was not the case when she first came back. So there was ample opportunity not to jump the gun with a decision one or the other regarding a relationship or committment, which was my point. The problem is he chose to act on his feelings after the curse took effect on Marian, so of course, he can not tell her anything unless she wakes up.

No worries, just to reassure you, I never thought you were being intentionally dismissive to my point of view at all. It was not rude or made personal to slight how I feel about it, which believe me, I have encountered those types of posts in my time spent on message boards, lol. When I responded back to you, I was just countering your position with my own perspective and why I see it differently.

I thanked Chris for her input simply because I do understand that it can be difficult to relate to an opposing opinion, especially when you do not share it.

Right now, the reactions and follow-up to that kiss are definitely in a state of limbo until the next episode airs. Or I should say, I hope we are not left wondering about it since it was left as a cliffhanger.

To clarify, I do not think a conflicted Robin is a bad thing to see but ... I truly believe the insinuation of cheating or the act of committing adultery is a very touchy subject matter, and in my opinion, a bad writing road to venture down for conflict, when we talk about relationships and couples that viewers enjoy, even for entertainment purposes. Part of the reason I believe this to be the case is because this is not a common place mistake everybody makes and plenty of imperfect people to not engage in it or give into it.

Personal growth conflict and angst I feel are more enjoyable components to watch when we talk 'imperfection' and relationship issues. For example, the idea that Regina does not see the good in herself. This is internal conflict and it works. This can impact a relationship with Robin in interesting ways. Also, from OUATIW, it was briefly hinted at in Robin's episode with Will, that he may have had an aversion to magic. It could have been interesting to have Robin deal with being in love with a magical pracitioner, reveal a possible history that turns him off to magic, etc. This could all be internal to the individuals and the relationship.

Of course, water under the bridge, as they say - they chose not to pursue it that way, and I get what is done is done but that still does not stop me from reflecting on a better direction for this couple.

External drama with a triangle is just cheap, in my opinion, and does not serve the characters all that well. It is why I despise love triangles, I usually find them immature and degrading to the characters involved most of the time. Here, in this example, we have the context of Robin turning on a good code made to a third a party, his wife, in order for him to be with the woman he loves. That is supposed to be the highlight and it is a turn off for me.

Maybe this explains a little better where I come from on it, even if others do not agree.

Of course, I think the issue at this point for some of us OQ fans is whether or not Robin is committing adultery when kissing Regina. I happen to think so, so that is why I have problems with this direction.

lianamed

GrhmLz, I know you were not talking to me about this, but if you don't mind, I just want to say that I do agree with this part of your post. At the moment Marian came back, Robin made a choice. It was probably the wrong one, since he made it based on obligation only, but it was a choice. He told Marian he was going to stay with her, so, being with Regina while Marian is "Frozen" is being unfaithful to a commitment he made to her.

And that's the part I don't agree, because, for me, since Marian did die originally (as far as we know), and that was changed by magic, his vows are not valid. But this is a technicality, since both characters involved in this consider those vows valid, I guess.

So, I suppose we could say there was intent of comitting adultery, even if it wasn't really adultery, if you get what I am saying. The characters clearly believed those vows valid, and acted on it any way.

ice choco

Can my username in the OP be changed please?
I was #033.

*Dark_Angel*

With the whole issue of adultery and cheating (the two terms have different meanings), it depends on perspective and also what exactly went on between Robin/Marian after she came back. If Robin had meant what he said to Regina in 4x01 about honoring his "vows" (i.e. comittment to his wife) and going back to his wife and acted upon it with Marian, then yes, by kissing Regina, he technically did cheat (since Marian is not dead, just frozen) but he DID NOT commit adultery since the vows have been broken 30+ years ago since she died. We saw Robin/Marian/Roland acting like a family when getting ice cream just before she got frozen, and we also saw Robin/Marian together at the town meeting smiling at each other/almost acting like a couple again in public. It would be less messy (if that's even possible) if we knew that Robin had told Marian that he still hasn't decided who to choose yet and that he is in love with Regina. He did originally go back to Marian, so as much as I hate the premise of a love triangle, this is one. I just wouldn't call it adultery because she was his EX-wife and he was widowed for so long.

I would feel more comfortable if we had seen a confrontation between Robin/Marian about him having moved on after 30+ years and that he has changed into a different man since they got married and that he is still torn as to what to do. Maybe we'll get a flashback.

I knew there was no right way for the writers to approach this ever since we knew that Marian was going to be back in the picture.

Don't get me wrong though, I fully enjoyed the kiss and am ecstatic that Robin acted with his heart. I just wished that it had been solidified first that Robin/Marian are no longer committed to each other as a couple.

Rhonwen

It's changed

lianamed

The fact that it's not adultery is what still keeps me rooting for them, BUT I feel extremely uncomfortable at the same time, since it's cheating AND the characters do believe the marriage is valid (for whatever reason, might even be ignorance on the writer's part).

It's like David and MM all over again, with two main differences: 1. I doubt the writers are aware Marian&Robin's marriage is no longer valid and if they are, they don't even bother making it clear for the viewers (we all knew David&MM were not committing adultery back in season 1) and 2. Kathryn wasn't in love with David, whereas, as far as we know, Marian is in love with Robin.

GrhmLz

Just to expand somewhat on the concepts of adultery v. cheating, I think in today's times the meaning is almost pretty synonomous because a married individual is likely to phrase an unfaithful partner as 'cheating', very much in the same way a dating partner may. Adultery is just a specific legal {or biblical} term applied to a legally married couple, and even how 'legally' was defined has varied throughout history. But, generally speaking, the actions amount to the same thing when any type of mutual committment is involved and broken. So at its core, both terms are telling you that somebody was unfaithful to their partner with a third party, maybe more in some cases (if there is more than one affair).

However, applying this to the Robin|Regina|Marian situation, I am not sure exactly how the custom or the laws worked in the Enchanted Forest pertaining to marriage. Are marriages considered binding by ceremony only? Are the marriages recorded by legal documentation or not?! What are the binding laws if a spouse is presumed dead but then returns? Do they hand out certificates for a legal divorce? We really do not know those specifics regarding EF legalities of marriage.

So I work with what I know and what I feel is the obvious. Right now, I do know that Robin married Marian, she became his wife, and to my knowledge, they never 'divorced.' SB is like an extension of the EF from what I can tell, because it is a magically created town existing among our world due to a curse, but these characters are not actually living in our world, with the rest of us. Marian is now a part of that world, with characters who should technically be like 28+ years older. For all intents and purposes, she came back as Robin's wife, not an ex-wife. I can see a 'legal binding' still being in place here because Robin and Marian never consented to a separation {aka. divorce} nor to go their separate ways in the EF or in Storybrooke just yet. Which, for me, fits the definition of still being married, and later, legal adultery, if Robin pursues another woman. To complicate things further, there was an intent on Robin's end to honor his vows. He is breaking them, against Marian, by kissing Regina. From where I sit, it is both legal adultery and cheating, if Marian is still in a position of believing that Robin is remaining her husband and keeping faithful to their vows.

In response to a few responses ...

See, I could maybe see some of the validity to this point if we were talking about the original timeline and we knew for sure Marian actually died. Right now, that plot point is muddy at best.

As of now, the reality is Robin believed his wife to be dead but she was not. She was going to be executed by the EQ but lived. We know she survived because of Emma's interference, but the fact now remains, that part of history is changed and Marian never really died.

The other problem at this point is the fate of Marian is even questionable within the unchanged, original timeline. We assume she died, offscreen the writers|creators may tell us that she would have died by Regina, but we just do not know. We never saw the original timeline play out and there is still the questionable history regarding what Robin Hood meant when he vented to Regina that he was responsible for her death because of a job he had done.

In the end, I just do not feel it was ever conclusive beyond a doubt that Marian was ever technically dead, in the unchanged timeline nor in the changed version of events. Which could very well mean, there was no 'until death do us part' that made the vows null and void.

The triangle still sucks, but I agree, I think this would have offered a softer blow as far as the storyline goes. Marian would likely still have been hurt, and I would certainly still have felt bad for her and her predicament, but at least it would have been honest and upfront.

I think we will still get this type of confrontation at some point but it just sucks that it will probably be 'after the fact' now.

The flashback idea would have been nice but I just find it hard to believe it would have transpired like that already, when Marian appeared content playing 'happy family' with Robin and Roland at the ice cream shop, not to mention how comfortable she was in Robin's presence at the Mayor's office, moments before she succumbed to the curse.

sherry02

This is a good point. The fact that we have no idea what the status of Robin and Marian's relationship has been since her return makes this even more confusing. Have they talked about this at all? Did they agree to re-commit to the relationship in any way, verbally, emotionally, physically? Anything? It makes a difference, because if they did, then Robin is cheating, plain and simple. If they haven't talked about this though and Marian was clearly aware in the premiere that Robin had been seeing Regina, then perhaps this matter is still unsettled in her mind as well.

I agree with Jade though that I don't see this as adultry because their marriage ended years ago for Robin and he grieved and moved on. Perhaps it could be argued that legally it would be considered adultry since I supposed on paper they are still married (probably no laws on what happens if it turns out that your deceased spouse is not actually deceased?), but from a practical standpoint, I would not call this adultry.

I admit that it's complicated though and I completely respect the viewpoints of those who feel differently. The one thing it seems we can all agree on is that bringing Marian into this storyline was a huge mistake.

PianoForte

It looked like they did. Robin certainly seemed determined to honor his vows and he immediately broke up with Regina, not giving her false hope. Add those two short scenes we saw of Robin and Marian together and it looks like they both agreed to re-commit to the relationship. Marian thought that her husband was faithful to her. So there really is no way around this, Robin is cheating on his wife who is essentially in a coma right now. I know a lot of people loved that he chose Regina, but I can't help but think how horrific that will be for Marian. She was dragged to the future only to discover that her husband has been dating the Evil Queen who almost executed her, then she was frozen and when she'll wake up, Robin will tell her that he chose Regina and their marriage is over. It's horrific. Are we just supposed to ignore that because Marian is nothing more than a prop in OQ story?

However, I think the aftermath of this will be interesting. They'll probably both feel guilty. Regina will probably feel awful because Robin betrayed everything he believes in for her and I doubt that's something she ever wanted.

GrhmLz

This is what I find bothersome. Everything presented thus far makes her character sympathetic and somebody to root for, not root against. So the idea that she is some worthy obstacle, or the drama she brings forth is the worthy obstacle, for OQ, is disappointing.

Also, any future story attempting to discredit her, or flame her character in any flashbacks at this point, will sadly look like revisionist attempts to divert away from OQ's beginnings together, post s3-finale.

Is it scary that I think that is the writing plan, though? To create forbidden drama so that there is some consequence to Marian finding out about them, and their status as soulmates, this way?

Very true.

I think the idea behind this might be for the audience to gauge Regina's reaction to it, witness how Regina handles the aftermath, and what Regina will ultimately do about the situation. She is the one who is supposed to be changing, redeeming herself and freeing herself from the past, so there can be guilt. I hope Robin feels guilty too but I expect that Regina is likely to exhibit it, afterall, she has been adament about how Marian should come first and be saved. Which further supports the notion that this is truly a Regina-centered arc, not a relationship arc.

phoenix_shine

Thought I'd post this here, to lighten up the mood a bit! I just found this vid on youtube and peed myself laughing! OQ fangirls react to 4x07!!