confessor_meggy

and Whale will finally become the hero of the story!

On Lily/Emma hearts, I thought their light/dark was switched? So if it was 50/50 and 50/50 to begin with, after the switch they'd be 0/100 and 100/0? No?

koodles

Yeah but in that case I think Rumple was able to take comfort in the fact that even though he was physically weak in LWOM he was still immortal.

We have had it stated several times in 4B that the DO darkness won't just die. I don't think Rumple would have been able to die physically in NYC. Maybe his humanity would have died just like it almost did in Storybrooke but I think his body would have remained to serve as a host for the darkness.

BUT NOW this is really the first time Rumple will be truly mortal since becoming the DO. He has faced periods of not being able to use magic and having his old leg injury back but that's very different from truly being a normal man again.

I'm looking forward to seeing how Rumple deals with all of that next season.

I don't think anyone on the show ever said their light and dark was switched. I think it was explained a couple of times that all the potential darkness was sucked out of Emma and implanted into Lily.

But Seamstress90 made a good point that it doesn't mean that Lily does not have potential goodness within her. She just has a double dose of potential darkness.

Seamstress90

Good point. The Darkness is no longer tethered to his soul, so it's going to be different.

Yeah, that's the impression I got. And didn't Jennifer say in that interview that she thinks there's an empty space in Emma's heart because the darkness was taken out of her?

Perhaps that's why she became a thief? She didn't simply become 100% good when her darkness was removed, but rather 50% good and 50% something else (whatever it is she chooses to be). There was an empty space in her heart that needed to be filled with something..

fox24

Emmas is my favorite character but I don't find a hundred percent light and that's good cause like characters to be a bit flawed. We all have darkness

She's done some thing that a 100 percent light person wouldn't do

The chainsaw with Regina's tree
Being a thief Lily and her boyfriend was almost like Emma and neal only without the gu
agreeing to help neal with the watches and living on stolen money
Bashing the dude head in the pilot

koodles

I agree but at the same time A&E often portray certain crimes like theft and vandalism as being somehow right and heroic. I mean Robin Hood stole from the rich to give to the poor and is portrayed as an outlaw hero.

Compared to the other characters Emma not only has a better sense of right and wrong IMO, she is also incredibly forgiving and understanding. I see her ultimate goodness being that she really tries not to judge people at first glance. She tries to be open and forgiving. Even when she is not necessarily ready to forgive she even fights to save the lives of her enemies when she is able to.

Really the one thing that Emma has done that I found personally detestable was letting and even encouraging Regina to take Pinnochio, an innocent child, from Gepetto and give him to Rumple and the QoD. I found it truly disgusting that both women felt it was more of a priority to keep up Regina's cover than to protect a child. Unfortunately A&E succeeded in making it seem like this was a good thing. August (Eion) was back which made fans happy and he wasn't upset with Emma and Regina for kidnapping him which he really should have been. I wonder how Gepetto feels about this...

But whatever. For some reason this act by Emma was totally cool but Emma protecting her son from a crazy woman holding a gun to his chest was an evil act.
This show can be really silly sometimes when it comes to morality.

confessor_meggy

So excited! I also wonder if he'll struggle with the physical implication of being mortal. Like not thinking that now as a human being he can actually get hurt, so he might try something, maybe to protect Belle?, that is very painful/can lead to his dead because he still sees himself as unkillable (not rationally, but I bet it is difficult to understand that now you are vulnerable, after 300 years of almost nothing threating you phisically).
And the reverse of Emma. Will we see her being scared of being phisically hurt because she can't internalise she's now immortal? Or will she go crazy and take unnecessarly risks because she knows she is?

And that's why I'm confused I'll have to rewatch the scenes about Lily and Emma I guess...oh well

Sorry, I really think I'm not explaining myself rightly. I don't think the 100/0 leads Emma to be 100% good, just that it leads her to be 100% hero so 100% entitled to her happy ending in the end. Does that make sense? *Hides in a corner

Seamstress90

No, Emma wasn't 100% light. As I said, I think that when her darkness was taken out of her, she was 50% light and 50% just empty; as Jennifer said, there was an empty space in Emma's heart, in the place of her darkness. I think it was up to Emma (and her parents) to fill it, either with darkness or with light. Perhaps that's what the Apprentice meant when he said that Emma would need guidance..

Lucas4Brooke

Yep a think all characters on Once are not all light or all dark. Each one of them have 50%-50% and they decide if they either want to be "good" or "bad". THat's what makes them interesting, they're all flawed... including Emma. There's no clear heroes or clear villains, except perhaps for Cruella and Pan.

fox24

There is goodness in Lily. From what we seen she wouldn't have calmed down when Mal talk to her if she was all bad and she genuinely wanted to know her dad.

It's a good theory that Emma might have emptiness where darkness should be. I still think both girls are guided by choices but they either have a bigger chance to the right or wrong thing due to the egg split

I agree the writers do have a weird sense of morality

Seamstress90

Yes, there's good in Lily. I think she is 1/3 light (her goodness) and 2/3 dark (her darkness + Emma's darkness). She's more likely to make the wrong decision, but she's capable of making good decisions too.

koodles

Yeah I think A&E do morally grey situations pretty well. But basically every season there is at least one frankly horrible and selfish thing the "heroes" do IMO that is portrayed as "right" or heroic and therefore it is done without remorse or question. The morally grey situations are portrayed in such a way that is meant to cause the audience to question/debate whether it was right or wrong but those other situations are just established as the heroes doing what "they had to do" when there were very clear other options that weren't even considered.

This is actually one of the reasons I stopped watching after S3. Hoping the show doesn't do many more of those situations.

DR76

If Emma never had her inner evil since the Apprentice transferred it to Lily before her birth, how does one explain the morally questionable acts she had committed?



I do. To me, it's a sign of good writing.

T'Lynn

I agree. Since Emma was sent away and raised without love that emptiness was filled with some darkness and that's why she doesn't always make the best decisions.

DR76

I think the Apprentice's spell is a load of crap. I find it hard to believe that being empty leads to committing theft, property damage and murder. I do believe inner evil does.



Just because a person doesn't experience love doesn't mean that he or she will commit a crime or make a big personal mistake. That can happen to people who do find love and is willing to do anything to keep it.

confessor_meggy

But desperations can lead people to do horrible things, and having no love in your life is such a strong push towards desperation and emptiness.