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Old 04-16-2014, 01:54 AM
  #121
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So with only 4 episodes to go when do you guys think we will start getting answers as to the mysteries of how Hook got to Emma. Whom gave him the potion? What happened to the JR? Who gave him the note, etc.
.
There are still 5 episodes to air in the season.
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Old 04-16-2014, 02:36 AM
  #122
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There are still 5 episodes to air in the season.
But the finale is two episodes on the same night.
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Old 04-16-2014, 02:44 AM
  #123
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But the finale is two episodes on the same night.
4 weeks, 5 episodes. His original post said 4 episodes. The May 11th show are episodes 3.21 & 22 total of 22 episodes in a season.
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Old 04-16-2014, 02:47 AM
  #124
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*groan* I hate Maths.
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Old 04-16-2014, 02:49 AM
  #125
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*groan* I hate Maths.
That's okay.
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Old 04-16-2014, 08:12 AM
  #126
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Stalkerish vibe? Where the hell did that come from? I never got any stalkerish vibes from Hook at any time. Does this opinion come from some dislike of Hook?
It wasnt stalkerish, this is man who is in conflict looking at his love from afar... - thats the atmosphere created esp as we all know he loves Emma and there is something happening between them, and caring for her and her family

The only person who has been stalkerish and creepy is Zelena, you know pretty much all the time lol - thats who you call off their heads and selfish

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So with only 4 episodes to go when do you guys think we will start getting answers as to the mysteries of how Hook got to Emma. Whom gave him the potion? What happened to the JR? Who gave him the note, etc.

I'm thinking...

Potion= Glinda
Note= Rumple
JR= He traded it for a way to get back to Emma or the memory potion.

We have to find this out before the end of the season, there's no question about it.
I think Ariel's words which she said to him will come back into play.... "Isn't true love more important than a few planks and a sail"
Because we know he was filling his void of Emma in taking back his ship... he thought once he has his ship - he will be somewhat fine, but i dont think that void filled and he will realise this... that his ship isnt important, he was covering it up over the loss of Emma, We saw him say it to Ariel... when Ariel asked him what kind of man chooses a ship and he says the kind that empty and thought his ship would overcome it, but it didnt... so i think he is gonna realise and will give up the Jolly roger in the face of finding Emma... he chooses love and Emma... and hence he found her in NYCS, i think him getting the note gave him the goal and something to fight for and didnt hesitate in giving up his ship imo (unless he used his ship - which we know is enchanted sacrificed it for Emma, so he must of used in to make a portal or something)
Also as we saw the guilt and shame ate at him what he did to Ariel... even though he now knows she found Eric, and is happy - he still is guilty over what he did and now what Zelena has done to him
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Old 04-16-2014, 03:48 PM
  #127
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I have not gotten that vibe at all. Other than the season 1 finale, Emma and Regina have teamed up on multiple occasions to counter the prevailing antagonist, i.e., destruction of SB, saving Henry.

Secondly, wouldn't it stand to reason that Regina and Emma's magic would be quite different - dark magic vs 'light' magic.
I'm not saying it will happen but will I be surprised if it does? Nope.

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I don't think we know enough at this point. They have already establish in season 2 that Emma had some magical abilities, and it has slowly been developed then placed on the back burner only to resurface when needed. But it has always been something minor, I still believe like season 1 Emma will break the curse, but defeating Zelena will be Regina. Sibling rivalry is too great a writing opportunityplus whatever is the interest of the Snowing baby will fall within Emma's hands.
Eh. The writers have already shown that they aren't above squandering the best opportunities and potential to push a certain plot/character/couple. Again, I'm not saying Regina will be sidelined. But given the setup and the writers' track record, it's certainly isn't implausible to think so.
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Old 04-16-2014, 04:22 PM
  #128
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I
Eh. The writers have already shown that they aren't above squandering the best opportunities and potential to push a certain plot/character/couple. Again, I'm not saying Regina will be sidelined. But given the setup and the writers' track record, it's certainly isn't implausible to think so.
Maybe this is reference to another post I am unfamiliar with, but there is nothing in the setup or writer's track record to suggest anything else. The writers have made Zelena, Regina's half sister and the discovery of her full parentage a mystery. There was already has been one public showdown, and I'm sure it foreshadowed an even larger forthcoming one.

Wouldn't it be a more interesting tale if Regina lost in the early rounds only to wind up victorious at the end? Isn't that a far more interesting character study and growth on how she overcomes her early loses? The setup, IMHO, is there. Regina is in the midst of a redemption arc of self discovery. Without her key identity of the Evil Queen - what kind of woman is she, shouldn't she have moments of doubts and introspection?

There still is a lot more mystery to the Wicked story to uncover. We'll just have to wait and see.
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Old 04-16-2014, 06:11 PM
  #129
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Maybe this is reference to another post I am unfamiliar with, but there is nothing in the setup or writer's track record to suggest anything else. The writers have made Zelena, Regina's half sister and the discovery of her full parentage a mystery. There was already has been one public showdown, and I'm sure it foreshadowed an even larger forthcoming one.
So you think the writers have been persistent in writing a character-driven show? That they haven't allowed the plot or their own preferences hinder character integrity or the storytelling itself? If so, then we are certainly in disagreement.

As for the setup, yes a continuation of Zelena vs. Regina makes the most sense and given the setup, it certainly can happen. But I am not naive enough to think it's the *only* scenario in play. If the writers wanted to end with the Savior vs. Wicked, they certainly could, whether or not it's logical or interesting.

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Wouldn't it be a more interesting tale if Regina lost in the early rounds only to wind up victorious at the end? Isn't that a far more interesting character study and growth on how she overcomes her early loses? The setup, IMHO, is there. Regina is in the midst of a redemption arc of self discovery. Without her key identity of the Evil Queen - what kind of woman is she, shouldn't she have moments of doubts and introspection?
I agree with you here! It does make for a more interesting tale. But history has shown that the writers of this show (and many others) don't always go with the more interesting tale. That's my point.
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Old 04-17-2014, 06:54 AM
  #130
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So you think the writers have been persistent in writing a character-driven show? That they haven't allowed the plot or their own preferences hinder character integrity or the storytelling itself? If so, then we are certainly in disagreement.

As for the setup, yes a continuation of Zelena vs. Regina makes the most sense and given the setup, it certainly can happen. But I am not naive enough to think it's the *only* scenario in play. If the writers wanted to end with the Savior vs. Wicked, they certainly could, whether or not it's logical or interesting.



I agree with you here! It does make for a more interesting tale. But history has shown that the writers of this show (and many others) don't always go with the more interesting tale. That's my point.
I agree it will be more interesting, im betting by seasons end either Regina or Emma will have the dagger and will use it to defeat to Zelena, that is how I see the finale going.
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Old 04-17-2014, 08:52 PM
  #131
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So you think the writers have been persistent in writing a character-driven show? That they haven't allowed the plot or their own preferences hinder character integrity or the storytelling itself? If so, then we are certainly in disagreement.

As for the setup, yes a continuation of Zelena vs. Regina makes the most sense and given the setup, it certainly can happen. But I am not naive enough to think it's the *only* scenario in play. If the writers wanted to end with the Savior vs. Wicked, they certainly could, whether or not it's logical or interesting.
It will be logical though because Zelena will do something to Emma's family, her baby sister or brother. So I think, the story will make a logical turn for Emma to defeat the wicked witch and break the curse, she is after all the main character/protagonist IMHO.

Besides, Regina doesn't even have her own heart. She may get it at some point and Rumple will get his dagger but they will end up helping Emma defeat the witch.

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I agree it will be more interesting, im betting by seasons end either Regina or Emma will have the dagger and will use it to defeat to Zelena, that is how I see the finale going.
Is it not water that always kills the Wicked Witch of the West? They might just throw her over board on the Jolly Roger.
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Old 04-18-2014, 07:06 PM
  #132
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It will be logical though because Zelena will do something to Emma's family, her baby sister or brother. So I think, the story will make a logical turn for Emma to defeat the wicked witch and break the curse, she is after all the main character/protagonist IMHO.

Besides, Regina doesn't even have her own heart. She may get it at some point and Rumple will get his dagger but they will end up helping Emma defeat the witch.



Is it not water that always kills the Wicked Witch of the West? They might just throw her over board on the Jolly Roger.
What I meant was they are gonna need to be in control of rumple to beat her, no way they can beat her whist she is controlling him.
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Old 04-18-2014, 08:18 PM
  #133
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^^Right.

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It will be logical though because Zelena will do something to Emma's family, her baby sister or brother. So I think, the story will make a logical turn for Emma to defeat the wicked witch and break the curse, she is after all the main character/protagonist IMHO.

Besides, Regina doesn't even have her own heart. She may get it at some point and Rumple will get his dagger but they will end up helping Emma defeat the witch.
It's not logical when Zelena's beef originated with Regina and Rumpel. Doesn't matter to me if Emma is the protagonist. An arc that had little do with her shouldn't be twisted to make her the hero. As I said, her helping to defeat Zelena is inevitable but Regina and Rumpel should very much remain at the center.
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Old 04-19-2014, 12:24 AM
  #134
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So you think the writers have been persistent in writing a character-driven show? That they haven't allowed the plot or their own preferences hinder character integrity or the storytelling itself? If so, then we are certainly in disagreement.
I'm not really sure what you are saying here. The entire show is the personal preference of Eddy, Adam and writing team. So I'm not sure what 'character integrity or story telling you are referencing. Perhaps if you clarified with an example or two.

For example, "The Jolly Roger" was exactly as you stated "a character-driven" episode. It was the culmination of 17 episodes of methodical character growth and evolution. This is no overnight transformation and even in this episode highlighted the character's fall into old habits and the remorse and guilt of a fateful decision. Hook's confession of guilt and begging for forgiveness was a huge character development which still held consequences plus enhanced the plot; furthermore, it clearly leads into another future decision (JR still missing in present day SB) we already know occurs, as revealed in the final act of episode 3.11. How and why Hook arrived at Emma's door a year later is finally getting answered. This episode was the start of the answer and used it to explore his character.

Quote:
As for the setup, yes a continuation of Zelena vs. Regina makes the most sense and given the setup, it certainly can happen. But I am not naive enough to think it's the *only* scenario in play. If the writers wanted to end with the Savior vs. Wicked, they certainly could, whether or not it's logical or interesting.
Once again, I'm not clear what you are trying to say. "Only scenario in play" seems to suggest that you are disappointed that it isn't a lone story. If this is so, then I disagree.

As I have stated in my previous post, the battle between two witches, one of whom only discovered a sibling, was the marquee and is currently happening on screen, but, of course, it's not the only element, and we discovered additional clues in the premiere and each succeeding episode. There is more to the story - more depth and complexity. Isn't that preferred?


Quote:
I agree with you here! It does make for a more interesting tale. But history has shown that the writers of this show (and many others) don't always go with the more interesting tale. That's my point.
History has not shown evidence of this point. Some shows push the envelope and write a bold interesting tale - only a few will succeed. Others are meek and cautious and find success.

But I believe that is not what is happening here. My original post, which you admit agreement, is a reflection of what I see happening on screen not my wish. Eddy and Adam are going with a more interesting tale. The Fairytale characters are rooted in the known stories, but rehashed and remade into their own image. There may be homages to the original story in some small way (thus angering some fans when it isn't a closer reflection of the original tale), but it is their original creation.

Bringing it back to this episode, Captain Hook's origins may be in the "Peter Pan" story, but Eddy and Adam transformed the character to make an interesting tale (just as you accused writers of not doing) and created an entirely fictional persona of 'Killian Jones'. There are homages to the original Barrie work - He's English, gentleman with manners, 'good form', and especially in this episode (not in Neverland) a sword fight battle to the many Hook/Pan duels in Disney and cinematic history. Actually, I thought it was a nice touch towards Disney.

Another 'interesting tale' by OUAT writers is Robin Hood. In the original tale Maid Marian is Robin's true love, but in OUAT universe Marin was killed and Robin is now Regina's soul mate. Many, many viewers are extremely upset by this bold interesting twist and how the tale which E&A want to tell has yet to be told. Viewers may not approve the twist and changes selected by Eddy, Adam and writing team, but I would argue they are at least doing so - repeatedly.

So I'm a bit confused to what you we agreed upon. But at least you said we agreed.


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It's not logical when Zelena's beef originated with Regina and Rumpel. Doesn't matter to me if Emma is the protagonist. An arc that had little do with her shouldn't be twisted to make her the hero. As I said, her helping to defeat Zelena is inevitable but Regina and Rumpel should very much remain at the center.
As of this point in the story this may be true, but I don't believe this is the entire story. Clearly it has been shown Zelena has a keen interest in the Snowing baby. Therefore, I do not believe this limits the story to Regina and Rumple.

Secondly, the story isn't "twisted to make her the hero" Emma is the hero in the story. That is her role. If it wasn't then 3.12 and retrieving her was an entire waste of Eddy, Adam and writing team's time. The retrieval of Emma to Storybrooke signifies she's key to the story regardless of the villain. So nothing was twisted from or to anything or anybody - it is the story.
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Old 04-19-2014, 09:35 AM
  #135
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I'm not really sure what you are saying here. The entire show is the personal preference of Eddy, Adam and writing team. So I'm not sure what 'character integrity or story telling you are referencing. Perhaps if you clarified with an example or two.
Well of course the writers have preferences. I'm referring particularly to preferences for certain characters over others and how the writers have allowed that to affect storytelling. For example, the whole Hook/Emma/Neal "triangle" never really took flight but it was clear from the beginning that Neal was the underdog; that he was never going to be given a fair chance to "win" Emma. I say this as someone who liked all 3 characters and had no interest in Emma and Neal as a couple. But when the writing is so obvious, as to foretell who the writers prefer as a couple, I very much see that as bad storytelling and a turnoff for me.

As for "The Jolly Roger," I'm not arguing that it wasn't a character-driven episode. Indeed, the intent was clearly to show how far Hook has come, to paint him in a sympathetic light and to prove that he is worthy of the Savior. But I found it to be a waste of an episode, quite frankly. I learned nothing about Hook's character (personality, temperament, etc.) that I didn't already know and worse, it didn't advance the plot any more than what could have been accomplished in a more balanced episode.

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Once again, I'm not clear what you are trying to say. "Only scenario in play" seems to suggest that you are disappointed that it isn't a lone story. If this is so, then I disagree.
Ha. No, I'm not disappointed. My saying that it isn't the only scenario in play is merely to point out that Regina being sidelined is not out of the realm of possibility.

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As I have stated in my previous post, the battle between two witches, one of whom only discovered a sibling, was the marquee and is currently happening on screen, but, of course, it's not the only element, and we discovered additional clues in the premiere and each succeeding episode. There is more to the story - more depth and complexity. Isn't that preferred?
When did I suggest that it wasn't preferred? I've never said there shouldn't be other elements, other characters involved...only that the basis of Evil vs. Wicked should remain in tact.

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History has not shown evidence of this point. Some shows push the envelope and write a bold interesting tale - only a few will succeed. Others are meek and cautious and find success.
History has shown so for me. To say otherwise to is to suggest that every story the writers have told has been a success and I don't believe that to be true. You reference Hook and yes, as a character, I find him to be interesting and entertaining. The story of "The Jolly Roger?" Absolutely not. It was one of the most underwhelming tales for me and read more like a filler episode, save the confrontation between Hook and Zelena.

As for what I was agreeing with you on, that would be Regina winding up victorious after losing early on. That would make for a more interesting tale but it's not a foregone conclusion, which is my point.

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As of this point in the story this may be true, but I don't believe this is the entire story. Clearly it has been shown Zelena has a keen interest in the Snowing baby. Therefore, I do not believe this limits the story to Regina and Rumple.
Once again, I never said it was the entire story or that it should be limited to that. Rather, that has been the focus and should remain so, even as the writing explore other elements of said story.

Quote:
Secondly, the story isn't "twisted to make her the hero" Emma is the hero in the story. That is her role. If it wasn't then 3.12 and retrieving her was an entire waste of Eddy, Adam and writing team's time. The retrieval of Emma to Storybrooke signifies she's key to the story regardless of the villain. So nothing was twisted from or to anything or anybody - it is the story.
I'm well aware that Emma is the hero...the writing is not exactly subtle in that regard. And as I've said, her playing a key role in the story is to be expected. My argument all along has been simple: don't build up Evil vs. Wicked and not actually allow Regina to defeat Zelena.
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