Grace52373

I watched those shows too and I liked Gabrielle and Xena as friends, so not all fans were into them and Faith/Buffy, I saw them as enemies most of the time, friends or sometimes allies the rest. Neal was not useless because he was the catalyst to most of the plots and characterizations on the show i.e.; Henry, Emma, Rumple, even Hook! I don't like that he was killed off either, but the writers are going to do what they do, so I have no control over things either. The writers are telling a story and pairing Emma with the woman who cursed her family isn't on it. Apparently pairing Emma with a former pirate who fooled around with her son's grandmother is. I don't agree, but I also don't like either of these ships. Also, having good chemistry doesn't mean they have good romantic chemistry! If writer's followed that it would be mass confusion. Relationships on shows come about because of experimentation, realizing that two actors have chemistry that leans towards a romantic and/or sexual chemistry, or by plot, which leaves the writers hoping the couple works. I always though Emma/Regina had good chemistry as rivals and allies. Also, if the writers want a GBLT relationship, they'll write it.

As for being anti-adoption, where do you get that? Regina did more than just make Henry eat his veggies, she was willing to give him a potion to make him love her and only her, tried to poison his mother, kept his grandparents apart, sent him to therapy and was going to destroy the town and run off with him! It is amazing that he still loves her at all! Despite what she has done, Henry still thinks of her as his mom and wants her in his life. Also, maybe he wanted the good guys to win, but I never thought he wanted Regina dead. Maybe he is just one of those rare types of people who cannot be happy if others are miserable. I am also sure that like some adoptive kids just want to know where they came from, especially since Regina's love was obsessive in the beginning, but as she grew as a character, became less selfish and put Henry first instead of herself. I don't think the writers are anti-adoption, they are for real love vs obsession and/or a parent's inability to let go of a child when it is in their best interest and Regina isn't the only one guilty of that.

I am a fan of Neal I admit it and don't care what others have to say, because I know Neal made mistakes. I like Rumple and he made mistakes as well. How would you feel if your favorite character was killed off and you had to read through thousands of posts that he/she was useless, a plot device, glad he is gone let's just throw him in the ground and ignore he/she ever existed, see people celebrating his/her death because it clears the way for their favorite character and couple. Think about that and maybe you will understand why some of us Neal fans are bitter and frustrated. Swan Queen fans don't corner the block on frustration and bitterness!

fox24

I am sorry that you have to read these posts Grace. I do think his funeral scene was beautifully done

Grace52373

Thank you and I think his funeral was beautiful although my mom who also watches thought it was funny that they threw dirt on his grave when they haven't done that in years at least to our knowledge.

Austenphile

Well the EF folks are old fashioned. The custom depends on culture and some people practice it still for different religious customs. Some cultures (such as the rural South where I grew up) only have immediate family members do it. The last time I personally threw it was at my dad's funeral (which was over 15 years ago) but that is also the last funeral where I was immediate family and I no longer live there so I do not know if the cuatom still exists.

fox24

some religions still do it Jewish and catholics. Plus on Abcs Nashville the country artist Juliette did the song Don't put Dirt on my Grave. so yes it's still around

Kelaine

I've decided to assume FTL has strong customs about how soon after death the funeral should be held, especially if Dark Magic is involved in the death. They can kind of work around this by putting someone in a glass coffin (Snow White, Daniel) but they don't wait if they can help it.

Austenphile

That is what I think too. "Archie", Cora, and Blue all had funerals immediately.

xNaley23x

Just wanted to point out, that Hook was genuinely in love with Milah. So much so that he went three hundred years trying to avenge her death. I wouldn't call that fooling around.

As for the episode, I do agree with some of the thoughts here - Neal was essentially not a well used character. He had great potential to be, what with his history with Rumple, there was so much there that they could have delved into and used him for in regards to his father. And if they wanted to make him a serious potential for Emma as a love interest, I would have preferred if they went a different way about it (like perhaps not have brought him in with a fiancee). But regardless, considering who he was to people on OUAT - Henry's father, Emma's first love and father of her child, even Hook was close to him at a time; I do understand the send-off he got. Belle being there was probably even more important since Rumple could not be. And that was the saddest part for me. Out of everyone who should've been there for his funeral, the one person that mattered most wasn't.

I will miss Neal's character. But more for what he could have been, rather than the catalyst he was used as.

fox24

I agree with this post and am also sad for Bae played by DS who did connect with me

MagnusXXN

I swear, one day a kids gonna be born with two heads and three eyes. Thats had tangled up all the family trees here are. Most everyone is connected to someone some how, and almost everyone is related to Henry.

Sigh....

This is fiction. Spells, curses, all that stuff we watch for entertainment. A kid finding his real mom because he doesn't like eating veggies, saying such awful things to her, a mother with no legal connection to said boy takes him across state lines....

These things happen, are real, and the resounding statement from the writers is its ok because their blood related. Its been pointed out to them constantly, on twitter, at comic cons, and their grumples and thats not what we intend statements, doesn't stop the fact that it continues to happen and in new storylines.

Or the constant parent issues on the show, and fake out GLBT storyline we got. The writers need to see shrinks, there taking out their issues on a decent show.

Did you know there are thesis questions in Psy, Pop culture, and Politics classes at college that pertain to tv shows such as these? I had one with Buffy the Vampire Slayer. And what is portrayed isn't always what the writers mean, or say they mean.

Buffy was supposed to be girl power, underdogs saving the day, and a strong female in a mans world, well some of it and thats what Joss said. But my class concluded that with the number of abusive relationships, rapes, and women going back to their abusive parkners that the actual storyline under cut anything the writer may have been trying to say on that score.

The writers are telling us something, have actually taken the time to come out and make statements on certain storylines, but that doesn't mean because they say so we have to stop acknowledging what we're actually seeing on screen.

Gonna get off my rant, and point out how hot Zelene looked. Wow, the make up people are doing a great job. Not many people can actually pull off green and still look attractive.


): )

Jewel Leigh

Regina not being the best mother or making good choices is not the reason that there are anti-adoption themes on the show. It is in more subtle ways that the show gives less importance to or shows that Regina’s being a mother is less “real” than a biological parent.



I could write many long essays with specific examples of how this is shown, but the shortest way I explain is to paint a picture where Henry was Regina’s biological son. The writers and therefore the other characters would treat their relationship completely different (and there shouldn’t be this huge difference, because even if Henry isn’t Regina’s biological son, he is still her son. His adoption of course effects him, but it shouldn’t effect how others treat him and Regina). Anyway, if Henry was the bio child of Regina, he would never have been taken away from Regina in season 2. Maybe for like an hour while Regina was locked away, but Regina wasn’t ever prosecuted for her crimes and there was no evidence as to her abusing Henry. Thus, he would go back into her care and stay there.

Instead, to this day, Henry has not gone back into Regina’s care (except visitation, but hasn’t even spent a night with Regina). Right now, Emma is wanting to take Henry away from Regina completely, which would make it where he will never remember his mother and be taken away so he can’t even see her.



If that was reversed, and Regina was the one with custody of Henry and Henry had been given fake memories where forgot Emma and didn’t know he was adopted at all -- and then Regina was wanting to take Henry away to never see or remember Emma again -- if Regina was trying to do that, she would be painted as the villain. 



Yet, that is EXACTLY what Emma is doing. And while other characters point out that Emma is misguided and that moving away isn’t actually best for Henry, it hasn’t ever been said that what she is really doing is keeping him away from his mother. 


Henry doesn’t know it, but that is what Emma is doing. In such an instance, it makes no difference if Regina is a good or bad mother, just that she is his mother. His mother who raised him and technically, is still his legal mother (I would say Emma was given legal guardianship by Regina, but it doesn't cancel things). In any case, this ought to be more than a side thought.

When biological children and parents (Rumple and Bae, Emma and her parents) are separated, huge amount of focus is poured into getting viewers to root for their reunion and/or reconciliation. Adopted relationships... less so.

The reason that people in our world can have funerals so far after a death is because of the way they are able to preserve the body. I would assume people in the enchanted forest (particularly the working class people), would not have that choice, so burring the dead as soon as possible is the best option. Even today, Jews usually burry their dead within a day (religious reasons, but they also do not use any embalming on the bodies).

As Storybrooke was designed for people to not age, so I’m unsure if they have ways of embalming. If not, the choice to bury Neal before the body starts decaying is probably a good choice. It’s probably also what the people are custom to and it isn’t like they needed to wait for people to drive in for his funeral (I suppose they could have tried to free Rumple first, but they wouldn’t know when/if they could succeed at that).

scorpio_chick

I have to say that I didn't know people actually shipped Emma and Regina as a romantic couple until I came to the boards, lol. And no, it's not because they're both women (as a woman of color, I am especially interested in seeing way more diversity than what this show currently offers). But rather, I just don't see this amazing, obvious chemistry between Lana and Jennifer. I mean, they're good together but I've never watched them and thought, "wow why aren't they a couple?" I don't speak from any bias either, as I've watched this show from the beginning, when I had no investment in shipping (outside the adorableness of Snowing) and even then, I didn't see it.

As for Neal being useless, I could not disagree more. Given all his connections to the canvas, he could have proven as useful as any other character on the show. The writers simply wasted the huge potential of this character by killing him off.

MagnusXXN

Exactly. Just because Regina didn't give birth to him, that the decade she spent with him, teaching him, protecting him, loving him, doesn't count because Emma did give birth to him and after 11 years shows up in the picture.

These is an actual issue.

And now seeing as how predictable Once can be, Regina's future relationship with Robin will include Rowlin into a family unit, thus replacing Henry as her son. As if you can replace one child for another. This is an issue!

This is wrong! And I'm calling it now, this is whats going to happen.

Sometimes you have to take things out of context. I like to search for fanfiction, they usually take much more time to write in depth information and interaction between characters then the actual shows. And I stumbled across the pairing. And I though, huh...that makes a lot of sense.

Check out tv.com, there huge Swan Queen shippers over there.

I think they wasted Neal from the get go. You know, he could have been good. But as Rumples son, it was so obvious who he'd be. And that was a let down. Then he was never actually given a story line of his on.

Just bumbling around on the side lines, or in someone elses story line.

I've seen the actor on True Blood, Terriers, and Life. He's good, funny, scary, entertaining. He just never got the chance to shine as Neal, because the writers made such a fail out of that character.


): )

scorpio_chick

I certainly hope this is not the intent. I am not naive enough to think they won't try it, as I am a naturally cynical/skeptical person, lol but it would be so wrong, to say the least. I hope to see a story arc where, as Henry regains his memory, he reconnects with Regina. And eventually, a side story where Henry and Rowland get to bond as step siblings.

Oh, I totally get why viewers ship them now and I say, ship on! We all like what we like and I definitely don't begrudge any fanbase.


I agree that they wasted Neal and that really disappoints me but I loved the character nonetheless, if for no other reasons than MRJ's portrayal and Neal/Bae's huge potential.

Kelaine

True, most people wouldn't have had access to preservation spells, either. I'm just saying that, given that they SB should have had alternatives (and they had access to preservations spells) they probably had a very strong cultural/religious reason to push through on the funeral right away.

But, I like to imagine cultural background things for other world societies (and I've been known to throw very immature snit fits when I don't think writers have thought things out).

Although, many cultures even in our unmagical world have felt you needed to Last Rites in a timely fashion--especially if there seemed to be something slightly uncanny about the death--or Bad Things could happen.

In FTL, that could be more than superstition, and having been physically part of the Dark One for about a year probably counts for things likely to make a body more easily accessible to Dark Forces.