Jinzle

This is a place to post your speculation and theories concerning the the magical trio: Hat, Apprentice and the Sorcerer. Who, What, Where and How is the questions we want answered about this new wrinkle in our favorite show. Remember, Speculation is good , but no spoilers allowed.

There are burning questions for me;

1. How old is the Apprentice. He seems to be the same age when Zoso encounters him as he does in SB. Older than Rumple perhaps?

2. Did the Sorcerer create the first Dark One, and if so why?

3. Who is the sorcerer?

4. How did the hat come to be in the abandoned Mansion? Who put it there and why?

5. Why did the Sorcerer help the SQ?

So many more questions and so little information.





Just who is this mysterious Sorcerer?





The allure of the Sorcerer's hat has a power over Rumple that he cannot control





Was the role of the Sorcerer in this season foretold last season?





The Apprentice




Each star represents a magical being that has been placed in the hat. Who are they and why were the placed there?





The Hat in it's inactive state.

Rhonwen

Nice OP. I'll add that to the thread guide so it's easy to find.

SO what are your speculations for the Apprentice? and the sorcerer?

I think the hat was in the Sorcerer's house when Rumple found it.

I think it was too easily found so it must have been planted and that the sorcerer is evil and probably the oen that created the first DO or may be the first DO.

GalaxyDuster

I think the sorcerer is the author of the book... then again, it's hard to say... how far back does the book go, exactly? How old were Rumple and Hook by the time Snow or Charming were born? I'd love a list of suspects. It's possible that the sorcerer is someone we know, but more likely someone we haven't met yet. Maybe they will tease us for the entire series with hints of who it is, and reveal it in the very end? I love speculating.

Miss Cam

Interesting thread Lots of questions to have answered.

Rhonwen

So I'm thinking Yen Sid is the author and it's his home that the hat was in.

The Apprentice came across good, and he may be, but is the Sorcerer?

Why does the hat draw all DO's to go after it? It seems like Rumple as soon as he saw the hat became full DO, instead of the man that told Neal at his grave that he was going to do this right.

SO is the Hat sort of like the "One Ring" calls out to DO's with the promise of getting free of the dagger but in reality it will unleash a greater evil?

Is the Sorcerer the first DO? is he in the hat?

fox24

Good theory and Emma mentioned Lord of the Rings

Jinzle

What we do know and the questions they create:

1. The Apprentice told Zoso that no DO would ever open the box, but Rumple did. Was he able to open it because of Anna's tears, or because he over came his dark heart when he died saving the ones he loved?

2. But in SB, The Apprentice tells Rumple that no DO has ever been successful with the hat. Does that mean it has been in possession of other DOs before?

3. The Apprentice is described as an old knight who has dedicated himself to the service of good.

4. The Apprentice is the same age as when Zoso met him centuries ago. Does that mean the Apprentice and especially the Sorcerer are immortal?

5. The writers have stated, early in the season, The Sorcerer was someone we haven't met yet. It is possible that we have met The Sorcerer this season though.

6. The Sorcerer is more powerful than the BF or Rumple as evidenced d by how easily The Apprentice was able to create a portal between FTL and TLWM.

My Theory:

The Sorcerer is someone who is currently in SB and the author of the Book, as evidence by the page showing up in SB when Regina was about to give up hope. That implies the author knows exactly what is happening in SB. The fact he has not interfered suggest that everything is going according to his plan. The name Sorcerer implies a male but I wouldn't put all my money on that. He would well turn out to be female. I believe that The Sorcerer has long range plans that could be spread over centuries and maybe even a millennium. I do find it suspicious that Maurice does not want to tell his daughter the fate of her mother, going so far as to lock her in her room. Why not tell Belle her mother died a hero, protecting her child. I feel there is something else going on. Could Colette be the Sorcerer and it was some vital sorcery books that she couldn't leave behind? Did she really die? Dunno, maybe I am grasping at straws, but it is fun to do. What are your theories and observations?

Kelaine

I think that's the most likely answer but feel like I should point out that the ability to do one thing other people can't might mean a specific talent rather than general power.

Another thing: the Sorcerer, like Rumple, can see the future. It's unclear if s/he sees it more clearly than Rumple. S/he could make magical objects that function in our world (and led Ingrid to Emma). It seems likely that Ingrid was somehow able to use magic in our world, by the way (her ability to adapt and survive, and to set up a fake ID and everything else needed to become Emma's foster mom. Also, she didn't age. The curse might have impacted her in some way [like the people in FTL who didn't age even though they weren't drawn into our world] or it could have been something from her own magic).

GrhmLz

Awesome thread.

I am definitely leaning towards there being a connection between the Sorcerer and the book just like there is a connaction between the Sorcerer and the hat. The introduction of the Sorcerer at the very time both magical properties are shrouded in mystery, hat and book, is likely not just a coincidence.

Can the Sorcerer realm hop or realm jump? Is there a connection to Jefferson and his own hat enabling him to do the very same thing? The Sorcerer has a magical hat too.

The Sorcerer also appears to have no boundaries or restraints as it pertains to time and its limits. He was able to foresee Emma AND knew exactly when & where Emma would end up in our world, which is how he knew where to send the SQ in time & place. So can the Sorcerer time travel at will, as an observer rather than active participant, since the ability appears to go beyond just foresight, like Rumple.

I am stuck on the Sorcerer being of good intent or of bad intent. This might be dependent upon the hat and who it has been used against: good magic (positive intent) or bad magic (negative intent). Why is the hat in existence to begin with, what ultimate purpose does it serve? Is the Sorcerer not good or bad, but instead, oversees magical balance and order?

Maybe there will be some twist where some villain gained possession of the hat after Ingrid gave it up, and this villain is now posing as the Sorcerer? That could be why it was in that mysterious house and not being guarded by the Apprentice in SB. The real Sorcerer might be trapped in the hat with others.

So many questions.

Seamstress90

My theory: The Apprentice warned Rumple that he has no idea what he will unleash if he uses the hat. Perhaps the Sorcerer turned out to be evil, and the Apprentice had trapped him in the hat. But the Sorcerer had foreseen that it would happen, so he created a magical dagger (perhaps he even attached his soul, or a part of it, to it) and tricked someone desperate enough into taking it.. yes, I think the Sorcerer is the creator of the DO curse, and perhaps even the original DO. The first (or second?) DO only needed to touch the dagger to be cursed. The underlying idea of this curse is that the Dark One is drawn to the hat and tries to get it in order to release the Sorcerer (and once that happens, the DO will be "undone"). The host, however, isn't aware of this. He or she thinks that he/she is simply freeing himself/herself from the dagger, or getting more power.

GalaxyDuster

For some reason this storyline also keeps making me think of Jefferson... I bet that's not a coincidence!!!

Grace52373

Maybe he is like Jefferson a realm jumper, but he is not as limited as Jefferson. He has Rumple's sight and he is able to cross to the land without magic. he appears to be good but why would he help the SQ and why not provide Rumple with a way to this world without the curse?

I think either the sorcerer and judgey mcprentice or just the sorcerer has long range plans and appears to manipulate things so maybe he is the dark one but makes himself appear benevolent when he isn't. Bottom line, he had the hat last and he put it out in the open for Rumple to find it which makes me think he has some plan or trap for Rumple. Maybe he is being manipulated by the hat or it calls out to his do side bringing it to the surface because the apprentice needs him for something. If it is some kind of set up, this could bring everybody together to help Rumple and find out what the sorcerer's plans are. It may also go towards Rumple being forgiven.

GalaxyDuster

I'm definitely leaning toward this angle. It can't be as simple as it appears from the surface. None of us could see Peter Pan lined up to be Rumple's father halfway through season 3a, I'd like a similar surprise in 4a!

Jinzle

I've got a feeling it won't be resolved this season. They will probably drag it out for as long as they can.

Kelaine

I have two (connected) theories about the Sorcerer:

1. Rumple sees the hat as a means to free himself from the dagger while keeping his power. What if it's the other way around? What if the hat is meant to trap the Dark One and allow the Sorcerer to use his power without his limitations? But, to do this, the Dark One had to freely link himself and his dagger to the hat?

Everything we're seeing is about trapping the Dark One?

That led to the second theory. I'm not sure that I really support this one--it may be the result of reading some H.P Lovecraft--but here's the thought:

2. What if the Sorcerer is an entity that created the Dark One? Take your typical Eldritch Horror unable to completely manifest in the mortal world unless properly summoned or waiting for the stars to align or whatever. It manages a partial manifestation of itself and power through the Curse of the Dark One. Eventually, it hopes to get a Dark One to allow it to more fully manifest.

The hat is a lure. To use it, the Dark One has to change the nature of the dagger enough that it can interface with the hat. That done, he must link himself to the hat--I assume through the spell Ingrid taught him, which I assume was taught to her by the Apprentice.

The Sorcerer (aka, Eldritch Horror) or some part of it resides in the Vault of the Dark One. It won't allow the loss of a Dark One without a replacement. So, Rumple is sucked in there instead of being allowed a true death. The Sorcerer maybe even gets Zelena the information on how to bring Rumple back.

But, when Rumple comes back, some part of the Sorcerer is now riding along inside of him. Sure, Rumple wanted the hat before, but now he WANTS it, to the point that he's willing to do some extreme things to get ahold of it. The Sorcerer is inside of him, a silent cheerleader only Rumple can hear, urging him on.

And this would explain things like taking back the dagger. Belle would be the last person the Sorcerer would want with the power to control Rumple and put the brakes on him if necessary.

It would also explain why Rumple talks about himself in the third person sometimes and, when he does, calls himself "the Dark One" instead of "Rumplestiltskin."

It also explains other changes. Rumple used to be deceptive to the nth degree, but he didn't lie. Now, he says it's what the DO does. He told Charming (when he felt he was being railroaded into becoming Prince James) that everyone has a choice. Now, he says he (or, in a Smeagol/Gollum sort of way, "we") doesn't (don't) have one.

OK, I can also see why Rumple would feel that way, but it's still a disturbing shift.

It might also explain why he can't seem to bring himself to squash Ingrid. Hook only threatened Belle. Ingrid used her mirror curse on her and doesn't seem able to shield Belle from it (even if she wanted to) when she casts it on the town. Yet, Rumple hasn't even tried to turn the Snow Queen into a bowl of (melted) soup.

If there is something riding him, Rumple still seems to have final control. He has to be tempted and lured. Instead of lying to her, he had a moment of brutal honesty with Emma. We still see signs of the man he was, but he's sinking fast.

Assuming that's what's happening. Which I'm not sure I'm putting any money on. But, it's a thought.