CityGal

Sorry, I'm a bit late, but thanks for the thread.

I'm going to take it a step further and say Beauty, at the end, went against her long held values. I'm stunned that they had Belle push Gaston into the River of Lost Souls. Was Gaston the personification of such evil that he needed to be tormented for all eternity?

After only one viewing, this episode confused me. There were individual scene moments that I enjoyed a lot among characters, but when I step back I'm confused to where this episode specifically is leading mainly Rumple and Belle individually. Is it the start of new storyline for them or is it a one episode story? I'm just not sure.

And I'm not buying Hades is genuine with his feelings for Zelena. There's a lack of warmth when he talks to/about her. Or is that coldness a deity thing?

Red arriving on a tornado?! So is she dead or not?

Maybe I need to watch it again, but with less meds. It may help.


I was sipping water when I read this!

Belleislove

Well, it was pretty much accidental though. I don't think she intended to do that to him, but he was trying to kill her husband. I think that's the point Rumple was making to her earlier, that you do things for the ones you love. That certainly doesn't excuse all of Rumple's actions but it is exactly what Belle did in this situation. Or Snow did with Cora or Emma did with Cruella. Good people can do things you might consider "bad" when pushed to the limit or to protect others.

I do think that they were going with Gaston was evil just by the red eyes that appeared in the mirror. But he was evil in the movie as well. He may or may not have deserved being tormented for all eternity. We didn't see him do anything really evil but he was certainly not a good person. Same with Milah. Neither deserved to be tormented for all eternity but a lot of characters in this show end up suffering fates they don't deserve.

I don't know about Hades. I just find the whole Hades/Zelena thing to be incredibly uninteresting and not compelling so I admit I don't really listen to when they talk to each other.

Don't know about Red. It seems awfully easy all of a sudden to get to the UW.

Austenphile

I'm a huge Snow fan but I don't think the situation with her and Cora is really comparable to Belle/Gaston or Emma/Cruella. Both Emma and Belle acted in the heat of the moment to save someone with split second physical action. Snow, on the other hand, wanted to murder Cora for revenge (she said as much earlierthat episode) and she used dark magic in the most convulted of ways and traded one life for another that wasn't even one of her loved ones but the lesser of two evils as far as she was concerned. Yes, Cora needed to be killed. And had Snow killed her in battle or just crushed her heart instead of using the candle and tricking Regina into putting it in with such a manipulative manner hitting on all Regina's weaknesses, then I would say it was the same. I am a huge Snow stan but I can't defend her manner of killing Cora so I understand why they had her depressed about it. I don't think Belle or Emma are similar at all. They are more like Charming killing the soldiers to save Snow, Emma, or his mom (or Percival to save Regina). Or Snow killing the ogre to save Emma or Medusa to save Charming.

Belleislove

I think it's a valid comparison in that good people did something they themselves would consider wrong, to protect someone. Yes, Belle and Emma did it more in the heat of the moment, and I didn't mean every particular was the same.

Just that it shows good people can take a life and not be evil. I think it is true that they were all pushed to their limits and did something they might not otherwise have done. It's not the exact same things but I think they all have guilt now over what they did. Although frankly, I don't think they should.

I do wonder whether this is intentional on the part of the writers, which I would assume it is, to show that not everything is clearly right or wrong?

Now in the real world, I think obviously Snow would have been considered guilty of murder. Belle wouldn't, imo, because she did something in the heat of the moment and to keep her husband from being killed. So it is different in that respect, I agree. But I think Snow will know how Belle feels, and I would actually like to see this addressed at some point.

Austenphile

I do think this show has shown that not everything or everyone is right or wrong. And usually they are very clear about killing for revenge vs killing in self defense or to protect someone. That's why I never understood the whole Emma/Cruella thing and I hope they don't have Belle moping around like Snow did in season 2. The Snow's dark heart depression storyline was why I didn't like the back half of season 2.

Belleislove

Yeah, I honestly didn't care for that story for Snow either.

There are some interesting moral dilemmas the show presents, whether they mean to or not. But it's always interesting discussing them with others.

fox24

Great discussion everyone

Against_all_odds

I don't think Gaston deserved it at all,but it was an accident. I liked those two at first,but what he did to the baby ogre was just awful. I can't believe I'm saying this, but Rumple deserves her more. They're both ,but Belle knows and expects him to lie to her, because he's evil. Gaston pretended with her, which is a lot worse.

Hades is cold in general because of the deity. If you've seen Percy Jackson, Clash of the Titan or anything else, he's a very cold,very negative and bitter god.



I think it's Pan's wife. He's all alone in the underworld,no one will give him the time of day and the shop is awfully quiet. Maybe it can come to life with the right spell.

fox24

I agree gaston did some bad things but I felt going to the river of Lost souls was to harsh. He wasent Cruella he had potential for good or at least to be redeemed

fox24

sorry double post

Belleislove

I thought the actor was good. And quite a cutie too. And yeah, Gaston was a jerk but I don't know that he deserved what happened to him. On the other hand, it was actually accidental and I think they intended him to die almost like he did in the movie. I think Gaston could have gone either way but since he turned to be pretty bad in the movie I think he was always intended to be bad on the show. So if he had stuck around I honestly think he would have stayed someone with the potential to be really dark.

I would have actually liked a longer arc with him, especially considering he's such a recognizable and popular Disney villain. Non-magical of course but still.

Against_all_odds

So would I,but considering that this isn't a tradition B&B story,it's pointless. TLK didn't turn the beast into a man and he's still a villain. He may say he wants to change,but in his fight with Belle,he pointed out that it's a matter of perspective. He likes being evil,so he's not the Beast from the movie.

I let go of that eons ago or I would have stayed bitter about Rumbelle. I could stop posting and watching the show,but then I would have missed out on the rest,which I loved. If Gaston is the same villain from the movie and Rumple is Rumple,what does that say about Belle?

Right now,she's this woman who keeps seeing good in a man no one else trusts. Emma threatened to tell Belle,but now Belle knows. I don't want more flashbacks and further exploration of his character to make her look like she's naive and romanticizes everyone and everything. Right now,she's still very much her own person b/c she's smart,clever,ready to solve things and a team player.

I'd rather swallow her constantly trying to see good in him now matter how many bad things he does and how many times he hurts her than this crap. I don't dislike Rumbelle because I hate Rumple,I dislike it because until this fight they had,he kept making her think he could change and lying to her. I still think they're toxic,but at least they got their crap out in the open.

I think the only people who deserve to fall in are Zelena and Cruella. I have a feeling that it's probably what's going to happen. She's Hades's weakness and if she dies,he's going to lose his s**t. When they see his soft spot,they can attack.

Then again,it could be wishful thinking. Like everyone said,the writers are fascinated with her. I only like her being around this time because she's better than Persephone. She shouldn't be redeemed,which is why I like this pairing. They are both truly godawful people who have done sick, godawful things. They can be sick, godawful people until they get their asses kicked and die.

Belleislove

I don't consider Rumbelle "toxic." I still love them more than anything on the show. I haven't liked some of the things and the direction the show's gone with them. And I don't like the implication on the show that he is seemingly embracing this part of himself rather than trying to be better. But I'm not sure that is what is going to happen. I think it's very possible that Belle's faith in him will be proven to be right.

I enjoyed this episode a lot because it reminded me of Dark Castle Rumbelle. Doesn't mean I agree with everything they were saying, but I enjoy their banter. These are two very different people who have different life experiences and values and beliefs but still a deep love for each other and yes, respect, even though there are times when it doesn't seem like it. That's my take on it anyway.

Their story is certainly frustrating at times though.

I would love Zelena and Cruella to both go into the water too, lol.

Austenphile

Only if Snow pushes Cruella.

Belleislove

Because of kissing David? It's okay with me if she pushes her in!!