Jinzle

Whereas leaving your small children to possibly become orphans is a good thing.

CityGal

I believe the message is about families working together to support each other. Emma has assisted fending off various baddies for each of them - Regina, Henry, her parents, etc. The one time Emma tried to go it alone, it blew up in her face. She learned her lesson and sought their help - her family's help, all of them. They agreed. So it's not about putting their needs ahead of their children, it's a way a fantasy show about fairytales shows a family fighting and supporting each other and include their children.

Disagree. Rumple puts his own personal needs first even before his family's. Even if his action sacrifices other's ability to get out or released, he would do it. The needs of the many are sacrificed for the sake of his personal wants. That's been shown in the show since the first season. His need to reconcile and find his son over everyone else's personal lives in the entire Enchanted Forest be damned, and if he has to turn a heartbroken princess into a revengeful Evil Queen to do it - so be it. Families torn apart, separated for how ever long matters not to him.

One of the reason why RC is wonderful in this role is because he can give you the man who knows he did wrong, hates it, but STILL DOES IT. He chooses the path that cost him the least. The price is for others to pay not his. His decisions are often ones of self interest and that leaves the heroes having to fight on two fronts - the arc's villain and Rumple's. He is an ally only when their interest aligns not out of his desire to do good. That's why he's a joy to watch every week. I'm hoping that he will make the right choice at a critical time in the story. It's the uncertainty of what Rumple will do next. There's the hope that something will spark a change for the better. It certainly why he's one of my favorite characters on television.

And as I've noted before, having babies on an adventure show is not a good idea. Never have, unless it's at the end of the series in celebration or some sort. But that's just me.




Don't believe anyone is making that argument.

However, making other people's children orphans for personal gain. That's infinitely worse.

Against_all_odds

Some of this is why I desipise him. RC is an amazing actor,but I don't get why people still love Rumbelle so damn much. Okay,so in the beginning,she made him want to be a better man. Now? He broke her heart multiple times,he lies to her over and over again and he picks magic and evil over her repeatedly. Either she accepts her husband's true nature or it's a toxic,disgusting and absuive relationship. I want that baby to be given to Hades-It's screwed wither way. Regina being raised by Rumple would have been insane. God,look at how badly Bae was raised. The Beast in Beauty and the Beast stopped being a Beast and became a prince. Rumple never,ever became the prince and keeps making Belle think he'll become the good man she keeps pretending he can be.

I've never hated Rumple more than I did this episode. I was looking forward to Hook and Milh's reunion so much. Not only did he take that away,we didn't get flashbacks with them. WTF?!

She didn't get to see Bae/Neal again,either. She didn't even get to meet Henry,which I really wanted to see. What Rumple did was just vile and he pretended he was sorry about Emma, Regina and Snow. he doesn't even care that his grandson is going to be an orphan. Robin isn't his guardian and Charming...cannot possibly raise Henry and Neal on his own. Why does this man keep getting glamorized?!


Exactly.

I always wondered about this. Henry is all by himself and eventually,he'll be a teenager. How exactly is he supposed to behave when there aren't any girls around? Violet was the first person his age he interacted with. I think that at some point,they need to phase him out.

Well,this show follows after Disney movies. I didn't see Hercules,but I did play Kingdom Hearts,which has all the characters from Hercules. Peresephone wasn't in it,so I doubt he'll have a wife. Tbh,it's best that Hades be single. He's already the villain and the original story of Hades and Persephone is NSFW,it's just in a classic format.


There was a time when I started to accept them,but then we went straight back to pissing me off by being him. He wasn't just a whiny little b**ch back then,he was a idiot. He sold his child? Who wouldn't be furious and resentful if they were told that they could never have children again? What a selfish . Affairs are wrong and she was an abusive deadbeat,but he did drive her into the arms of her another man. She was a b**ch because she neglected Bae more than anything. She should have just taken him with her and left town.

I've only ever had sympathy for Rumple once and that flew out the door when he did something awful yet again. It's like the writers can't seem to find a happy medium for the character. Not only can I not summon any sympathy for him,he killed his wife twice. He killed that poor woman twice and now,he's ruining his second wife's life because of a decision that was made for her.

Belleislove

I don't get why people love some of the other couples but I don't question why they love them. We don't like the same things.

Jinzle

He hasn't done that to the Heroes. On the contrary, he did something he hated n order to save their lives. Going home to Belle was just the icing on the cake. Yes they are trapped in Hades, but as long as they are alive there is hope of escape. Who among the other parents there would not have done the same thing. Rumple had no time to make an alternate plan and he knew Hades was watching. I don't think the Heroes could have done much better.

confessor_meggy

^ Agreed.
While he did sacrifice the lives of other people for his and his son's sake (I say other people because back then he didn't know they were his family), he didn't in this episode.
And he did almost kill Henry in S2 to save his skin. In S2, he then went on to understand he was being selfish and a bad person, tried to make up for it by sacrificing his life to retrieve the kid and ended up dying for him and his family.

I disagree that he's sacrificing his family for his own gains in 5x14. Again because I'm still waiting on what was the other option he could take besides burning the boat but also because he needed to get back to his family Belle and his child, because being in the UW endangers the latter (As Hades said, the contract isn't interrupted by the death of one of the two parties THERE). It can't be use "They are his family too" only when it's convenient because he's not putting them first. Because Emma isn't considering him, or Belle, family when she forces him to come to the UW (the others go willingly, he doesn't), or the others don't blink an eye when she does so again in front of all of them and Hook says he should kill him for taking away his sacrifce. The "Family" thing can't be used when he doesn't help them and put his wife and child first but not when they don't treat him not only as part of the family but not even with some human decency.

Again, I'd totally agree if he found out Belle was pregnant and went seeking a deal with Hades to go back. But he didn't, he helped them find Hook faster so he could go home faster. And then he was cornered by Hades who specifically said:
1) He could burn the boat by himself if Rumpe didn't
2) gave him the choice between trapping them there or killing them all
3) He was watching them the whole time, so no way to tell them without Hades burning the boat himself and/or killing them all.
(I'm again not talking about Milah here, because that's a different affair)

If there was another option that I missed please do tell me, but I honestly can't see how his decision in this scenario was:
1) Selfish
2) A choice at all

Seamstress90

ITA, Meggy!

Rumple also had every reason to believe that healer was somewhere in the UW (it's a place for people with unfinished business, and the healer obviously has unfinished business with Rumple), and that their deal would be brought up again if he learned about the new baby. As Hades pointed out, Rumple did try to hide the fact that Belle's pregnant, and he didn't look very surprised when the contract was brought up again. In fact, I thought Rumple only looked defeated, so I think he knew it would happen if he was caught, which is why he was so desperate to leave the UW ASAP. It wasn't just his "selfish desire to get back home to Belle" (I do think it was a part of it). He was also trying to protect their unborn child.

Miss Cam

CityGal

confessor_meggy

Thanks for the reminder

I thhink overall this discussion was very respectful, whi is why I enjoyed it personally

Against_all_odds

Fair enough-He just sets me off. I don't normally get this angry about a character-But I think he's an abusive husband and after he became the Dark One, he neglected Bae about as much as Milah did. I've seen characters who are Gary Stus in other fandoms,but only one other(Peter Pan is lumped in,since he's Rumple's father) makes me this angry. Even when he was supposedly weak,what he did to Milah was messed up. Affairs was wrong,but he drove her away. She should have taken Bae and run like hell. If that made him who he is,it would be a lot more interesting,especially when he kills her.

There are plenty of characters who have done awful things,but the difference is that most of them have grown and evolved. I think it's funny that Rumple favors Regina when Zelena is more like him. She prefers power over everything else and doesn't want to let of her rivalry with Regina and anyone else. Cora didn't mention her once and it was hilarious. She's still more interesting,but it has more to do with the fact that she doesn't want to be redeemed, loved or anything like that. She seriously enjoys being a gross rapist who had Robin's baby.

There's no point in judging Hades because he's a god-It's his job to be just that evil. He can't be judged by human/mortal standards.

I tried liking Rumple or at least,tolerating him. He started grow on me after he sacrificed himself and I had hope for him becoming a morally grey character like Regina. Obviously he'd come back,but they brought him back in the stupidest way possible. The Neal fans lost Neal and they never developed him enough to make him interesting on his own,imo. I felt for him when he was being imprisoned by Zelena,I really did. When he laughed about lying to Belle,I was upset. I skipped the Frozen arc b/c I hate Frozen,but he pretty much went back to square one.

Why is it so much to ask that he evolve? That he attempt to meet Belle halfway? I never cared about Will Scarlett either way,but she when she talked about ending her broken heart,it was so said. If it made him upset,then he should care about breaking it over again. Stand by your man really should have limits. A friend who recently got into this show recently made a remark to me about how everyone on the show is really,really good/nice or really, really bad/mean for the most part, aside from Gold/Rumple,Regina and Emma. I told her that it gets better as the show evolves,but in Rumple's case,he only evolved by so much. I mean,the man's wife left him,he lost his son,Cora choose power over him,he didn't get to raise Regina with Cora and when he was in Storybrooke,he lost his son all over again. You'd think that all that crap would make someone seriously re-think their life and be glad that they have their own body/survived their heart becoming black,but nope-Not him. He lied to Belle's face,she doesn't think he's the Dark One and their baby is in danger. A baby she doesn't even know she's pregnant with.

Oh, well-This is an episode discussion. I liked it,even if that man makes me angry. In my head,Hook had am emotional reunion with Milah,we saw a flashback of her going back to the tavern and she died happy to go be with Neal. He has her blessing and she wants him to be happy. Also,she knows she has a grandson and he hugs her and calls her grandma before she leaves. Also,she has to tell his dad that he says hi.

OT: It's kind of ironic-Robbie plays Peter Pan,who is the epic grandfather of all Gary Stu's. In Heroes,he plays the son of one of the most epic Gary Stu's of all time. I think he found his niche.

livstevi21

Great episode! Not as amazing as the last one, but still high up there! So many great things.

- Rumple introducing Emma to Milah and explaining Emma's previous relationship with their son Bae/Neal and her current one with Milah's previous love Killian was hilariously awkward.
- The flashback story with Milah and Rumple was good, it now makes much more sense and understandable why Milah would want to leave Rumple for Killian. It was no excuse to abandon her son, but then Rumple should not have sold their un-conceived second child. I know he did it to save Bae's life, and there wasn't really time for him to talk to Milah about the deal, but it was still a horrible price to pay, especially if Milah wanted to have more children with him.
- Emma telling Milah of her vision that Neal has moved on and in a better place was nice
- Emma saving Killian.
- Regina being able to see Daniel is in a better place. Telling him he will always have a place in her heart. I swear, Regina tugs at my heartstrings like no one else.
- Hades controlling Rumple, making him push Milah to the depths of hell.....ouch. Milah did not deserve that. I wanted her to go to a better place and see her son.
- Belle is pregnant! But Hades has control of the contract now, and the deal Rumple made still stands. Ugh.
- So the boat is destroyed and no one can go home yet. Emma, Regina and Snow have been chosen to stay in the Underworld by Hades. Don't like where this is going either!