fox24

It's why I think Henry gave the keys to Regina. I wish we had heard about that.

At least Regina got her out of there as soon as she knew

crazy_diamond

I still think the keys are a big loop hole, that should have been explained on screen!

Seamstress90

Maybe Neal gave the keys to Emma during 3x11 so that she and Henry had some place to go once SB had disappeared? And she then gave them to Regina so she could give them to Robin?

I think they at least could have told Rumple that they were going to let someone use his son's apartment. Regina had a good opportunity to do it when Rumple came to talk with her in her car..

That just makes the whole mess even more disturbing..

fox24

Personally I believe Granny gave Emma a box of Neal things after Neal died. Remember the second curse brought everybody stuff back in the rooms. I think in the keys where in that box and emma and henry gave regina the keys. There is an easy explanation imo. It's not a big plot hole

I do think maybe Regina should have told rumple but I don't think the writers thought that far ahead


any way the characters didn't Marion was Z

CityGal

I think it played into portraying Rumple's desperation and loneliness outside of SB. Powerless in an unknown world, no one paid him any bother (even those characters who know him and what he use to be), and it showed why his character is so desperate to make a return to SB. He is something in the magical world of EF, and what he says and does matter to others. Gold, as the DO, is a man with stature to be reckoned with, and knowing what it's like without either - he's not about to give it up.

For me, I better understood his actions and desperation to return and side with whomever will help him get his power and stature back - the author or 3QoDs. It expressed Rumple's plight in LWOM as a simple human man - powerless and forgettable.

Now I wonder if this could be a possible foreshadowing of what's to come once Rumple "awakens"

koodles

Rumple has a lot of value as a person without the DO powers. He just has to realize it and value the man behind the monster. That's his biggest problem.

Here's the reason it's okay IMO that Robin stayed in the apartment instead of Rumple. If Neal were alive, he would have given the apartment to Robin (a man who helped him get to NVL when he didn't have to) instead of Rumple (a man who tried to kill Emma, tried to kill a defenseless Killian, and helped the Snow Queen try to kill everyone in Storybrooke).

I know a lot of Rumple fans don't want to hear that, but it's true. In fact Neal probably would have been much harsher with Rumple if it were up to him and fulfilled his earlier threat to lock him up in Pandora's box instead of just banishing him.

fox24

Yeah I agree neal would not be happy with Golds behavior in 4a. I literally wanted him to come as a ghost and haunt Rumple

koodles

Me too!
I'm still hoping for a Baelfire haunting. MRJ now has his show with NBC so he probably wouldn't be able to guest star, but hoping we might someday see Dylan again to play Baelfire.

For me, the absolute mockery Rumple made of Neal's memory was the lowest part of everything Rumple did in S4. Neal died for him to live and Rumple repaid him by trying to kill Emma and helping the Snow Queen in her plot to kill everyone else.

I also hate that when Rumple created the AU, he essentially asked the Author to erase his memories of Neal so Rumple would just remember Baelfire. That was awful. He didn't even want to remember the man his son had become.

Neal's memory is kind of an unspoken victim of Rumple in S4. Hopefully Rumple will realize next season how much he dishonored the memory of his son and try to make amends.

Jinzle

To be fair top Rumple, when he made the request to the Author, he was sick and close to death. I don't think he was thinking clearly, or had the ability to consider all the ramifications of his request. He was thinking about the time he and Bae were happy together, before he became the DO. I do not believe he was purposely trying to disrespect Bae's memory.

Seamstress90

Agreed.

koodles

I can understand that. It's something the Author prompted him on too, not something that was part of his original plan.

But after every other way he disrespected Neal's memory this past season it just felt like more salt to the wound.

Hopefully Rumple recognizes and comes to terms with all of this. Hopefully he sets out to be the man his son loved and believed in.

Kelaine

On the apartment: I understand what they were trying to do with Rumple, I just felt it was badly handled from a script POV. Robin was either forced to be out of character or he had reasons for feeling entitled to the apartment that weren't fully explained.

Granted, Rumple meant to put Emma in the hat, which was bad. However, as witnessed by multiple beings pulled out of the hat, it was not fatal--something Rumple clearly knew.

Although they didn't make a big point of it in the show, I'd say they established that Rumple didn't oppose Ingrid because he couldn't. Anna commanded him on the dagger not to harm her or her sister. Warped as it may have been, when Ingrid went through her initial thing of trying to make Anna one of her new siblings, it seemed that this was enough to bind Rumple not to harm her directly. Even when Belle and Henry were in direct danger from Ingrid's spell, all he could do was threaten Ingrid that he would find a way to get her, even if it took the rest of his immortal life. That strongly implies that he really wasn't able to fight her.

He specifically asked Isaac to leave his memories of Bae untouched except for letting him believe his son had been proud of his father when he died. Any other changes were Isaac's.

By the way, we do have clear evidence that Isaac was doing things in the AU Rumple would never have suggested. Does anyone believe Rumple would have given Zelena a happy ending?

I'm not saying Neal wouldn't have grievances, but I would debate those points.

crazy_diamond

fox24

I think we have to agree to disagree. I don't he was powerless to stop Ingrid

I don't think neal would be happy with the Gold has treated Emma and Henry and I am not a Swanfire shipper.
Neal was very much against using people he cared about for power and self preservation and power and gold did that in s4.

koodles

I agree. And Rumple didn't just not try to stop Ingrid, he actually helped her.

Based on what we know about Neal he would have been furious with Rumple and probably even more punishing than Belle. I would like to see Rumple recognize that and try to make amends in honoring Neal's memory.