semmanclana

They could have possibly found a way to help heather. I'm pretty sure after knowing whats up they wouldn't have left her in that state. Thanks to Cassie we'll never know now.

Well i added the dangerous part lol but still I'm not saying Diana was completly right nor am I on her side cause she turned out right, I'm on her side cause she waited and didn't go ahead and do something reckless. She THOUGHT before she acted. She didn't have all the facts, so what did she do? Her research!

Cassie's actions led to Heather dying. Did Diana's? And even still if Diana's actions bothered you then Cassie's should as well! Her decision was 10x more dangerous especially going behind the groups back. Shes lucky her and Faye didnt end up dying.

OliiVicious

Agreed, and Heather's brother seemed to share the same thought. He was relieved, because like he said, she is at peace now.

I understand why Cassie wouldn't listen, she thought her mother had hurt one of her friend and she wanted to repair what she thought her mother had done. I don't hold it against her.

But the way Heather died, for me it was like what the demon knew exactly what he was doing, free himself so he can move on to another body, one from the circle. Am I wrong?

Overall it was a great episode, love the Faye/Cassie dynamic, they were great together.
Hated Faye's attitude towards Melissa though. Last week she was rooting kind of rooting for her and Nick and in this episode it was like last week never happened! What the hell!

Cassie and Adam were meh, I love them but the "please stay away from me dance" and Diana pushing them to spend time together is getting old.
Something was off with Diana, something was bugging her, was it the fact that Cassie didn't listen to her? The undeniably growing Adam/Cassie relationship? The fact that she's not the only one with a book of shadows?
Heather was creepy as hell, she killed it in the episode.

I like where the show is heading.

GrhmLz

Like I said, Diana made a valid point. I think she gives good advice most of the time. I don't think it's always smart to just 'react', like she said, but I don't think that's all that Cassie was doing in this case. That's me and my interpretation.

This is where we differ, then. I see nothing wrong with that stance. There is never a time where this group is going to know 'all the facts' (I don't even believe Diana was saying that, being more prepared, yes, I believe that was her point). If they just sat around waiting for that to happen, knowing everything, nothing would ever get done and no injustices would be corrected. Some things in life are left up to taking chances, and that can be just as valuable as what Diana was advising. So, I admire Cassie for that. There is a balance and I think both Diana and Cassie were probably venturing to the extremes last night. However, there was something to take away from what Diana offered and from what Cassie did. Without Cassie undoing the spell, I don't think they probably would have uncovered the information about the 'evil' they did because I'm sure the 'demon' possessing Heather was not and is not the only evil out there. Now, they have something to be better prepared for (like Diana wants). Sometimes doing the 'right' thing does always end with a 'happy ending.'

jaycee19

THIS!

You make a fair point. They can't know all the facts all the time, but I wish Cassie would have done more research beforehand. That's all I'm saying.

semmanclana

I agree with this 100% Neither girl was in the 100% right. But its how both dealt with it that I am team Diana. Diana didnt just make a decision and sit back on it. She made it and researched to make sure she was right. Thats what you do! Cassie wasnt just wrong in going ahead and doing this stupid plan. She was wrong in going behind the groups back and doing something so dangerous.

Diana didn't have all the details BUT neither did Cassie when she did the spell.

And due to Cassie's actions look at everything that has happened and will happen.

GrhmLz

Based on what, though?!

Heather was already in this state for 16 years. Amelia was dead, reasonably the only person who could probably give them more information or insight into what was wrong with this situation and she was dead. So, asking her questions?! That avenue is out.

Amelia couldn't de-possess her. We know that. That avenue was out.

As far as we know, Diana and Cassie went through their books of shadows and there was no 'new' information revealed to them on how to 'depossess' a person from a demon. So, for all intents and purposes, that avenue is out.

Where were they going to go to do 'research' or to get any other new information on Heather in order to even know that she was possessed by a demon in the first place?! The brother new nothing, neither did the guy who attacked Cassie last episode. It seems like the only viable source of information left was Heather herself and by taking a chance and trying to help, Cassie gained the insight and the information her circle needed for the future.

The argument that they 'probably would have found another way to save Heather' is based on 'chance.' Something we don't know for sure and something the circle wouldn't know for sure. Just like Cassie took a chance and didn't know anything for sure. That 'maybe or probably' is not based on certainties, like Diana was advocating for to begin with. Therefore, if Diana went on that train of thought, she'd be sitting back and taking a 'chance' that something would eventually come along to help them out.

And that's fine if you agree with Diana's approach more. I'm not telling anybody not to. But some people are risk takers (like Cassie), while others like to play it more on the safe side (Diana). If I were to analyze myself, I'd probably say I'm more like Diana. However, I have come to respect that taking chances can be just as important in order to garner results. Personally, I think both styles can come in handy and will on this show.

I'm not bothered by Diana's actions in regards to Heather. I was bothered by her reaction in regards to her being a leader and what possibly motivated her to make the decision she did.

As for Cassie, like I said, it was a risk. It ended with Heather's death, but I still don't put that blame on Cassie. Cassie tried to help and the demon took advantage of that. The demon is responsible for all of Heather's predicament, not Cassie.

Besides, here's something to ponder: what was going to happen when Heather's life was coming to an end from old age?! It's not like her human body is immortal, what of the demon then?!

I can agree with this. Trying to do more research beforehand wouldn't have hurt what Cassie was trying to do, which was find a way to help Heather. Even if it didn't offer anything new, it wouldn't have hurt to have at least tried it.

Her lack of research, though, isn't something I think should be pinned on Cassie in order to blame her for Heather's death. That's all.

KRM

It seems some might be making the assumption that if Diana wasn't insecure about AC then she would be totally cool with Cassie using magic to undo the spell on Heather. I disagree. I think regardless of how insecure she felt about AC she would have been against it. Diana has so far consistently been wary of how they use their magic and it getting out of control. However, I can see the point that some did not like the tone she took. I think her abruptness in tone was probably a result of finding AC together and her discomfort about Cassie finding her family's book. Diana being right was not a fluke. Diana was right because she was being responsible. But yes Diana was not perfect. I think she should have taken a more reassuring tone with Cassie. She should have told her let's find out more about this and talk it over before acting impetuously. There was no rush. Instead of sounding like an absolute "no" it would sound more like "maybe, but not now, not yet."

Adam tried to fob it all off when he told Cassie they need to know what's out there. He was trying to make her feel better. However they still would have found out about the Demons by taking the time to do a bit of research. So doing the spell was not necessary nor was it the right thing to do. Cassie was wrong because she let her emotions over her mother's actions make her act rashly. Diana was wrong to let her insecurity over AC's behavior make her communicate in a dictatorial fashion rather than an inclusive fashion. Diana is a good leader not just because she's responsible and thoughtful. But because in the past she has done well to communicate the reasons why they should do what she thinks is best. When she was telling them to bind the circle she made them feel they were equals even when she was exercising leadership. So yes Diana just like Cassie let her emotions affect her. Nobody is perfect here which is a good thing.


If she is wrong then she is wrong. I don't think it's realistic to expect anybody to be right all the time. Your scenario is asking what if she makes a wrong decision for the group by letting her emotion get the best of her. That's possible but it hasn't happened yet. It might happen in the future though. Diana so far has demonstrated she is the best choice of the six to be a leader. But she like the others is still a kid essentially. Also, she can only be the de facto leader with the consent of the others. So I guess we'll have to wait and see what happens. They are all young, vulnerable, and susceptible to events that may cloud their judgment. If it were any other way the show probably wouldn't be as entertaining!



As I already stated I disagree that Diana's emotions are the reason she was prudent about not going off and doing the spell. Diana has consistently been shown to be responsible and cautious. I think her emotions did affect her communication and thus affected her leadership. Had her tone been more reassuring and warm as it had been in the past then maybe Cassie would have listened.


I agree with all that. Sometimes people want to defend the characters and ships they like. None of them should be above reproach. But hopefully most of us can be fair to all of them.

angelface211

OMG Tara thank you!!! Someone agrees with me. It has been hard for me to really ship AC because I always feel bad for Diana but that is just not the case anymore. I'm sorry but she was being a straight bitch this episode! I hate the way she talks to everyone especially Adam like she is better than them. I get it she is the leader but that doesn't give her the right. Every since the beginning she just tells Adam what he is going to do and never asks if that is okay with him. He wanted to help Cassie with that spell and he would have if Diana didn't tell him he wasn't allowed to. What is she his mother or his girlfriend. I am feeling nothing for them anymore because it doesn't seem like they are in love at all. I get that Diana knew something else about that symbol and why it was dangerous but she should have shared that with with Adam and Cassie right away. Its like she has all this information but will only give it out when she feels like it. I'm sure if Cassie knew to start with what that symbol meant she never would have done the spell, she was just curious and wanted answers, I don't think she did anything wrong there.
I loved though in the end that Adam came back to Cassie without telling Diana, I want him to do something he wants to for once. I feel like him and Diana are still together just because they dont' know anything else.



I definitely agree. She seems nothing like the book Diana at all. She is jealous and petty.

GrhmLz

But that's my problem, we won't ever know that for sure.

Actually, let me rephrase, I can't be sure how she would have decided - minus her feelings of insecurities being present there in that moment. Is it likely she still could have been against the idea?! Of course, sure, but I also suspect she might have gone about it a bit differently as well. For instance, maybe she would have been against the actual spell-casting on Heather; however, what about visiting with the brother just to ask some simple questions like Adam and Cassie did at first?! Diana wouldn't even do that. Hardly dangerous in my book, but instead, Diana blows off doing anything at all. I'm sorry but to me there is a fine line between being cautious/careful and then just avoiding something.

To me, it was very evident that she was basing her current decision more on her prevailing emotions in the moment rather than what she thought was more logically sound at the time.

Also, my argument wasn't just about her insecurities regarding AC. I think seeing that initially impacted her when she walked in on them together but I think what was really motivating her decision to go against Cassie's idea was the revelation that Cassie now had her own family book of shadows too. This, I feel, uprooted Diana on the spot because up until that point - there was only her book and the group was dependent upon her for all the information/answers. Then, take into account that Adam happened to be backing Cassie up on what to do in the situation and not Diana.

I witnessed a small 'battle of wills' and a 'powerplay' struggle with Diana there. Like I said, I like Diana, but this is what I picked up on. She's human, it can happen.

Again, I stress ... what research?! Where and, from whom, besides Heather and Amelia, were they going to find anything out about what was wrong with Heather and what Amelia had done?!

Clearly, Dawn and Charles can't be trusted - they have their own agenda going on. And as far as we know, all of the other parents who were involved that night are dead from the boatfire as well.

The Elders?! Nope, I doubt they would be forthcoming with what happened all those years ago since they banned witchcraft and are under the presumption that no one is practicing magic.

I think it's easy to say that 'research' was the answer. But clearly the only 'research' I saw that was forthcoming and available to them was Heather herself.

I don't think casting the spell had anything to do with right or wrong. It was the intent that mattered, and Cassie intended to help Heather. Personally, I don't think it would have been 'right' to ignore what Cassie uncovered - even if Diana believed they didn't know enough about the situation.

Agreed, I think to some extent, both girls were allowing their emotions to guide them into their decision-making.

In the end, though, I think both girls can learn from the approaches of each other. Nothing is ever 100% perfect, that's why I don't think this sitation with Heather is really about 'right' or 'wrong.' There was a problem that needed to be addressed, Diana thought one way about it, and Cassie thought another way. My problem with Diana was not with her actual approach in wanting to know more first before acting - because, it's not like her approach to waiting couldn't have caused other unforeseen problems we'll never know about. It might have. Just like Cassie's approach lead to some unforseen tragedy. My issue with Diana was with me questioning her 'reasons' for deciding the way she did, that's all: insecurity over Cassie's book. Cassie may have acted a little wrecklessly on 'emotion', hopefully she can learn from that, but her intent was purely to help Heather out. That's why I'm not going to come down on Cassie for following through on her approach, as if to say Diana's approach was the perfect one with the perfect solution. No, it wasn't, it definitely had value and some wisdom behind it but we can't say that was definitely the 'right way' anymore than we can say Cassie's approach was.

Exactly, but that's my point. It's unfair to come down so hard on Cassie for something that is purely 'chance.' Cassie tried to help, some good and bad things resulted from it the process; however, they learned some valuable information out of it that I think would have been very unlikely to get elsewhere. Time might not be on their side. My scenario with Diana, as you pointed out, is merely suggesting that it could have been just as easily likely that Diana's approach of 'waiting' on the Heather situation could have lead to bad results in a different way had things followed through that way instead. Procrastination can sometimes open up other doors you can avoid by action and then they would have to confront new problems, even if Diana's intentions were good. Just like I think Cassie's intentions were when she reacted to help Heather.

I've been getting that impression too, Nat, which is why I was even more convinced that her reaction to the spell idea, and telling them not to do anything, was more about her insecurity that Cassie now had a book of Shadows too. I thought that she felt like her position of authority was being challenged in that moment and she had to put Cassie in her place.

Not to mention, I'm questioning Diana's book of shadows anyway. Why does hers contain more information on the darker/blacker magic (what's dangerous) - while Cassie's wasn't like that at all?! It makes me wonder what Diana's parents were really into.

Also, it turned out that the symbol itself was not actually what was so dangerous. It's what was wrong with Heather that was dangerous: she was being used as vessel by the evil possessing her. All that the symbol was, was a part of a protection spell that prevented the evil from being set free/lose.

I agree, she doesn't feel like book diana.

semmanclana

Yes messing with magic without looking at the facts is nothing wrong with that. Cassie was an idiot. Even if Diana didn't tell her what to do she should have had the common sense to research before going behind the backs of the rest of the group. Cause of her stupidity and lies Heather is dead, the demon was released, and her and Faye were almost killed.

Diana has to be this way with the group cause of how reckless they are with their magic! They have to have something bad happen cough Faye cough for them to wake up!

I love Diana 10x more than book Diana.

And Diana didn't just tell her no you arent doing the spell. She brought up valid points.

1. What if you do it wrong
2. What if it makes her worse
3. Its to risky
4. They dont know enough

And even said when they know enough maybe they can then help.

angelface211

I definitely feel it was jealousy. Diana always feels superior and it is because of her book now that Cassie has one she is afraid that Cassie may try to take over, which is a valid point but I still don't think that she should have been keeping secrets from the coven. They need to stick together.

Oh I know, her book is a lot darker, I would say because her family probably has been more into dark magic then the Blakes.

Okay a little harsh but I see that you just don't like Cassie so every decision she makes is wrong and Diana always right. That is fine but Cassie was not an idiot. She saw someone in trouble, thought her mom was the cause and thought she could get answers for everyone so she wanted to help. There is nothing wrong with that line of thinking!
You say her lies led to Heather being dead, when did Cassie lie? Cause from where I saw it Diana was the liar. Cassie never said she knew anything about the symbol but she never lied and said she wasnt' going to do the spell, she was always upfront. Diana was the one who had seen the symbol before kept her mouth shut and just thought if she said no a bunch of times everyone would listen. If Diana had said hey I saw that symbol in my book lets check it out and see what more information we can find before performing the spell they would have known what it was for and none of this would have happened. So how is that Cassie's fault. She didn't have all the facts Diana did and kept them to herself. Even after she told Adam she still didnt' want to tell Diana and only because Adam called her did Cassie find out. Diana is jealous of Cassie and letting it rule her leadership skills and it is going to ruin the circle, imo.

And I get she brought up points but she just kept saying no we aren't helping you speaking for herself and Adam when he clearly wanted to help. She thinks she can tell everyone whatever and they will follow because she's Diana. Well that is not happening with Cassie, I'm sure Cassie asked herself all those questions as well and just thought she had to at least try. Diana had the information that would have made Cassie not do the spell but she chose to keep it to herself so she has all the power which was a stupid move and led to everything going to hell.

Drunk On You

I need to re watch it again to gain my thoughts.

I thought it was creepy but I didn't think it was as scary as everyone was saying. And I had no problem falling asleep not long after the episode.

*OldHollywoodStarlet*

Totally agree with Natasha!! Also on a side note your welcome.

angelface211

Thanks it is so good to have someone that shares my opinions fully. I was watching the episode and thinking all that and knowing that everyone would probably disagree with me

*OldHollywoodStarlet*

I was totally on the same page. It's the reason I thought get nothing but flak.