Nikki K

PhoenixRising

Thanks for the new thread and title, Nina!

Continued from the last thread...

Oh, the Leo thing was totally creepy, Nina. That scared the crap out of me when he finally woke up. Also, Gordon only being able to hear Shelly's voice without his hearing aid was hilarious. But not having any more Cooper/Audrey stuff depressed me to the point where I couldn't stand any scenes between MacLachlan and Graham or Fenn and Zane. And Windom Earle really bored me after a while. Lynch's absence from the show was really felt.

Oh, I could tell that Babylon 5 was drawing from all different kinds of influences, like The Lord of The Rings(Z'ha'dum is a reference to the Bridge of Khazad-dum, the Shadows are clearly inspired by Mordor and Sauron), Frank Herbert's Dune novels(the Centauri are total Harkonnen clones), The Martian Chronicles(The Minbari), Forbidden Planet(the Great Machine on Epsilon III) H.P. Lovecraft's Cthulhu mythos(the First Ones), 2001: A Space Odyssey(the centrifuges creating gravity), and so many others. Although I did find it a bit unrealistic that the Narn would sell weapons tech to Earth during the war with Minbar but Earth Alliance never once sought out artificial gravity field technology? Sorry, but I don't buy that.

See, I didn't get the impression that Hermione loves Hiram or has any loyalty to him, she's just looking out for her own best interests and Veronica's. If Hiram were to drop dead I don't think Hermione would mourn at all. Yeah, I guess we'll have to see what happens next season and how she reacts to Fred's shooting.

Nikki K

I was rooting for Gordon and Shelly. He was so funny when he put Bobby in his place.

Yeah, I got the references. I can't say I care much though – I mean ultimately most things are influenced by events or other works. So I try not to be too critical unless it's so glaringly obvious that it's unimaginative. I think I mostly liked "Babylon 5" because of Londo and G'Kar and their epic frenemy-ship. Also admittedly I did like Sheridan/Delenn. Particularly the actress playing Delenn. I was delighted when she showed up on "Lost".

I just re-watched the snake box episode and yeah – look, she lied to Fred what it was all about, completely painted herself as the victim who had nothing to do with anything and when Fred asked her why she didn't call the police or animal control, she was like "I don't trust anyone but you, Freddie." – ahm, okay... fine, you don't trust the police... I'll let that slide for a moment. But animal control to handle a reptile? *snorts* All I thought was, yeah Fred, you're being played.

Again, I don't think we can actually say anything about that since we haven't seen Hermione and Hiram interact on the show yet. Let's see how their partnership/relationship works next season when they are in the same flat.

Now re-watching the show... I think it's interesting that in one of the first episode Betty says something to Alice about how people expect her to lose control, like mother like daughter. I adore Alice – especially in ... 1x04 when she tapped on Fred's window at the drive-in and was like "Sorry to interrupt your adultery, Fred." – maybe he can pay her back some time when he catches her and FP.

ETA: You're welcome. I'll look for a really good title for #50. I was thinking about doing a "previously on..." but we talked about so much.

PhoenixRising

Yeah, that was funny. But sadly, Gordon and Shelly were not meant to be. And I'm curious if Bobby and Shelly will have any scenes in the new series now that he's a Sheriff's deputy. She's already seen James at the Bang Bang Bar, although James hasn't been right since his motorcycle accident.

Well, I don't deny that Hermione is manipulating Fred, but I also think she's out for her own survival and wouldn't mind at all if some "accident" happened to Hiram. Like I said, we'll have to wait and see. From the way Hermione talks about Hiram with Veronica I didn't get the impression that there was any spousal devotion, especially not when she's hooking up with Fred.

I think it's great that Madchen gets a chance to chew up the scenery in Riverdale. It's been so long since Twin Peaks that it's great to see what she's doing with Alice. And perhaps Betty's alternate "dark Betty" persona is a little bit of serpent in her showing through?

I agree, the Londo/G'Kar and John/Delenn relationships were my favorites. I loved it when the two maintenance techs overheard Londo and G'Kar's conversation and one of them said to the other, "so how long you figure they been married?" And Mira Furlan was elegant as Delenn. She was quite the hottie back in the 80's.

Nikki K

Oh gosh, I always thought James was such a bore. His storyline where he went off and then was trapped in that house with that murderous brother-sister duo was also a bit of a throw away in my opinion.

But yeah, man, Leo was so bloody scary.

Hermione definitely never tried to poison the well and turn Veronica against Hiram, quite the opposite. I think that speaks of some affection, respect or devotion. I doubt Hal and Alice will act so maturely. I think Hermione hooking up with Fred was part nostalgia and part calculation. Things turned icy pretty fast as soon as it was clear that it would be counterproductive to her business goals... oh and that she'd eventually have to be honest with him.

I think what I love mostly about Alice is that she has no filter but a lot of aggression. Definitely a really interesting character. I'm really glad Mädchen got that role. She's fantastic!

Definitely one of the best scenes on the show. I really like it when shows don't take themselves too seriously.

PhoenixRising

Oh yeah, that was ridiculous. That was a "what are we gonna do with James?" storyline. Considering the show got rid of Josie, I can't believe they held on to James for so long. "Hey, Coop! What happened to Josie? Ahahahahaahahaha!!!"

Leo was almost as scary as Bob, but not quite. Bob gave me nightmares. And what Windom Earle did to Leo was just...

Yeah, but I think that Hermione knows that Hiram's money is what they need right now. I don't think she wants to work at that diner the rest of her life, and I think she's just doing what's in her best interests. And the only reason things got icy between her and Fred was when she began doing things that he felt were unscrupulous. Again, we'll have to see what happens next season. Although I wouldn't be surprised if someone pulls a J.R. Ewing on Hiram.

Alice definitely does not run her thoughts through a filter. And that aggression probably comes from her upbringing. She's this all-American homemaker, but she's also a street fighter.

When Londo and G'Kar teamed up to rescue Na'Toth was another episode I liked. They worked quite well together.

Nikki K

Exactly... I mean Josie became a freaking nob on a night table if memory serves. The actress was on a really good show a couple of years ago though... "Serangoon Road" – kind of a noir set in the 60s in Singapore. Absolutely excellent.

They should have just put James on that bike and let him ride off into the sunset no more explanation necessary.

Leo was scarier... at least to me. Yeah that was the only time where you felt an ounce of compassion for Leo when he was Windom Earle's hostage and so obviously wanted to save Shelly from his crazy games despite everything.

But she got out of the diner by episode 3 – tricking Fred into giving her a job first and then basically becoming his silent partner as she and Hiram bribed the mayor and the Serpents and bought the lot. So I think the diner was an unexpected obstacle in their larger plans. And that proves my point – they are not compatible in that sense: Hermione is morally ambiguous and that's something Fred can't deal with. Personally I'm really looking forward to Hiram.

That's why I think Alice and FP make such a great couple – they both don't mince words, they both have that aggressive side and they actually thrive on it. You see Hal fighting with Alice too but you can see that he's annoyed and exhausted by it and he blames it on her, makes her feel guilty.

Oh yes, that was also – great episode. I mean for seasons we wondered, whatever happened to G'Kar's aid and finally we got an answer. Come to think of it, yeah, the show had a lot of good plots and performances.

PhoenixRising

Yeah, Josie finally became as wooden as she had been for most of the series. I did like Joan Chen in other things, but Josie really didn't have much storyline other than sleeping with Sheriff Truman and shooting Dale Cooper. To be honest, I actually thought that's exactly what would happen with James as he rode off with Donna screaming after him. I was sure that was the last we'd seen of him. Imagine my disappointment.

Leo was definitely scary, but Bob just... ugh. That dream where he killed Laura in the train car wrecked me. And Sheryl Lee has this ability to be utterly terrifying as well. That scene of her doppelganger in the black lodge freaked me out. "Meanwhile..." And I wonder what happened to Leo? They haven't revealed that on the new season. Did he become spider bait?

So you think that Fred and Hermione are over and done with? I'm looking forward to Hiram as well. I just hope that they don't have Hermione suddenly act all matrimonial with him considering I don't think he'd buy it. And all the Alice/FP talk is frustrating since we really didn't get much in the way of shippy scenes with them. I hoping that gets rectified next season. And Alice does seem willing to let FP take the fall, which is problematic.

Oh, Babylon 5 had great performances from everyone. But the storytelling logic failed me at the end. Again, only a complete idiot would not be able to figure out what was going on if they were in Sheridan's position, and John's no idiot. And did you ever notice that John "Starkiller" Sheridan would often begin and end a season by blowing something up? A Centauri warship, a jump gate and a Shadow vessel, the entire capital city of Z'ha'dum, etc.

Nikki K

Bloody double posts...

Nikki K

Well in all fairness Josie was played by Catherine and her crazy brother. Yeah... I was disappointed too. James was a big drain on screentime in my view.

I think I always thought Leo was more scary because when it comes down to it people like Leo actually exist in the real world. Hm, no clue what became of him but unless that was early days (and I haven't really followed things since) – I heard he won't be back? So yeah he may have died in the woods and nobody cared. Oh well.

Well, I think Alice has a lot of bottled up anger towards basically everybody. But I think it gave her some pause when she realised that FP was actually framed. Of course she understands how the Southside works and knows that he will rather go to prison than give up names. I think that is both logical to her (given her upbringing and also because he's doing it to keep Jughead safe and she'd do the same for Betty) but by the same token it makes her angry that he'd throw away his life for the Serpents. Also probably makes her feel helpless and for the moment she may think it's possible to return to her old life so she will try to forget about it but we all know that won't work because Hal is both awful and shady (he's a Blossom after all).

Ah, I think Fred/Hermione are done for the moment. We probably get a revival once Fred has recovered and Hermione needs a knight in shining armour again. I think ultimately Fred always wanted Hermione but even in highschool realised that Mary would probably be the safer choice. Ironically that didn't turn out for other reasons.

Yeah but out of all of it, the entire capital of Z'ha'dum was certainly the most impressive target. Wish I could do that to my nemesis place of work.

PhoenixRising

Yeah, and Josie really wasn't given a good storyline either. Her relationship with Truman never really did go anywhere.

Did Leo die in the woods? Last I saw of him he was strapped in that chair with a cage with a spider inside dangling over him.

Do you supposed it'll be war between Alice and Hiram if it turns out that Hiram was behind FP being framed? And I don't know if Alice will wanna go back to being a Serpent after living the good life in Riverdale. Sure, she and Hal are done, but I don't expect her to just give up what she has, especially not with Betty and Polly depending on her.

Oh, so you do think that Fred/Hermione will get back together at some point? I agree, but probably after Hiram Lodge gets struck by a bolt of lightning or something.

I've often wished I could do the same to my place of work, Nina.

Nikki K

Yep, that's what we saw. I just think that if we never hear or see anything from him again, it's safe to assume he died there and nobody went looking for him because well, for the most part he really wasn't all that lovely.

No, I don't see Alice going back to being a Serpent herself or moving to the Southside. Also talking about diabolic approaches – Alice/FP are so very different from Hiram/Hermione, as much as I love them I cannot see them being clever enough to outwit the latter two. Sure, they may win a battle or two but not the war.

I think there will probably be continued UST and perhaps a bit more than that but nothing will happen... even if Hiram is struck by lightning. Mainly because at the end of the day Hermione's morals are compromised and Fred cannot live with that.

I know, right? Where is Sheridan when you need him. Idek.

PhoenixRising

Well, then I'm not sure I want anyone to find him because he probably doesn't look all that good after 26 years.

Oh, so you don't think that Alice can outwit Hermione? I get FP not being in Hiram's league, but Alice always seemed to me like she had Hermione's number. Just saying. And Alice may yet have allies later on, like Veronica, possibly.

So if not Hermione, then who could Fred possibly end up with? Or do you expect him to stay alone?

And I have to go to bed soon, Nina. I have work tomorrow. And you really should get to bed as well. I want you to get sleep and get well. I'll talk to you soon, okay? Goodnight and sleep well!

Nikki K

Oh yeah, Alice can probably outwit Hermione. But Hiram is another story. And like you said FP is not in Hiram's league. There is also a question of how subtle and patient people are in their devious intriguing and I think Alice and FP are neither or only to a certain point. While Hermione and Hiram have probably perfected the form of cultured deceit by now.

Oh, wouldn't it be nice if we didn't have to pair people up all the time? I mean, Fred's a nice guy, I don't want him to be miserable but I don't know... if it's not essential to the story as a whole I'm not sure he needs an "endgame" love interest.

Hope you slept well. I'm back now... trying to make sense of bureaucracy... idek. So I hang out here while doing that.

BL.Arinna_1982

Hermione is with Harry, duh.