The Borgias - History and The Borgias #1: Real vs. Reel - Page 2

jnnj · 06-03-2011, 01:16 PM

Thanks, Sheida.

It was easier than I anticipated, lol.

Completely understandable. The Borgias seem to have a really complex history. It's hard to be exactly sure about certain things since sources tend to disagree or speculate about a number of things (which is probably why there are so many interpretations to their story, lol). But it's intriguing to see how Neil J interprets certain factual people, personalities, and events.

Hopefully, this thread becomes a good resource.

kindness is free · 06-03-2011, 01:33 PM

It has so far thanks to your knowledge J

red velvet · 06-16-2011, 11:32 PM

So we wanted to turn this into a 411 or wiki kind of thing, right?
How exactly are we planning on going about that? Sections for each person, by year, do we have a plan of attack?

Nonie · 06-16-2011, 11:48 PM

Maybe we should start with the easy stuff first... How about character's bio? Something like a family tree? Once we have establish the family, then we can see what next to proceed?

red velvet · 06-16-2011, 11:51 PM

That makes me want to put an actual visual family tree in the OP

Starting with bios sounds good though

Nonie · 06-17-2011, 04:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chrissalaugha (View Post)

That makes me want to put an actual visual family tree in the OP

By all means, go ahead

I'm sure it'll look awesome

red velvet · 06-17-2011, 05:23 PM

Don't say that! I wouldn't even know how to begin doing that unless I drew it out by hand and then uploaded it

Finnegan · 06-17-2011, 07:26 PM

Sheida,

Here's a nice Spanish-language family tree of the Borgias from a site that looks fairly responsible:

And here's a Borgia family tree from a nice Satanist site. Yes, Satanist. The Borgias have had devoted fans for a long, long time. You TV show watchers are real johny-come-latelies.

Finally, here's the Borgia family tree as posted on http://theborgias.wetpaint.com/, an outstandingly informative and responsible fansite, at http://theborgias.wetpaint.com/page/...A+Family+Trees

--------

The main primary source for the history of the Borgia is the Liber Notarum of Johann Burchard. Burchard is the protocol and precedents scholar whom we see in the show as being concerned chiefly for his books. This guy:

The book has been Englished as: At the Court of the Borgia: Being an Account of the Reign of Pope Alexander VI written by his Master of Ceremonies Johann Burchard, 1506. Folio Society, London 2002. So far as I know, it is not available online either in the original Latin or in any translation.

The problem with Burchard is that he seems to have written down every rumor that he heard -- the jucier the better, without selectivity based on either investigation or any prior sense of likelihood. It was the "We report, you decide" news approach of the early 16th century. One fears that poor Johann may have been so foolish as actually to have kept his vows, and that writing down what the Borgias were said to be doing was his idea of a good time.

---------

I've found nothing in the show that's grossly ahistorical. Is there a lot of stuff that merely "might have happened" but is not known to have happened? Of course, this is a drama. But I have not seen anything significant in the series that I know definitely did not happen.

----------

Assuming a modicum of historical accuracy continues, there's so very much to look forward to. For example, the Banquet of Chestnuts.

Quote:

The banquet was given in Cesare's apartments in the Palazzo Apostolico. Fifty prostitutes or courtesans were in attendance for the entertainment of the banquet guests. After the food was eaten, lamp stands holding lighted candles were placed on the floor and chestnuts strewn about. The clothes of the courtesans were auctioned; then the prostitutes and the guests crawled naked among the lamp stands to pick up the chestnuts. Immediately following the spectacle, members of the clergy and other party guests together engaged with the prostitutes in sexual activity. According to Burchard, "prizes were offered--silken doublets, pairs of shoes, hats and other garments--for those men who were most successful with the prostitutes".

According to William Manchester, "Servants kept score of each man's orgasms, for the pope greatly admired virility and measured a man's machismo by his ejaculative capacity." Another source states that Pope Alexander VI was actually there and himself suggested the scorekeeping method.

Actually, Burchard himself writes that Rodrigo was present. Those were the days when Popes knew how to party. ... Then there's Rodrigo Borgia's funeral:

Quote:

Writing in his Liber Notarum, Burchard elaborates: "The face was very dark, the color of a dirty rag or a mulberry, and was covered all over with bruise-colored marks. The nose was swollen; the tongue had bent over in the mouth, completely double, and was pushing out the lips which were, themselves, swollen. The mouth was open and so ghastly that people who saw it said they had never seen anything like it before." ... Burchard described how the Pope's mouth foamed like a kettle over a fire and how the body began to swell so much that it became as wide as it was long. The Venetian ambassador reported that Rodrigo Borgia's body was "the ugliest, most monstrous and horrible dead body that was ever seen, without any form or likeness of humanity."Finally the body began to release sulfurous gases from every orifice. Burchard records that he had to jump on the body to jam it into the undersized coffin and covered it with an old carpet, the only surviving furnishing in the room.

Such was Rodrigo's unpopularity that the priests of St. Peter's Basilica refused to accept the body for burial until forced to do so by papal staff. Only four prelates attended the Requiem Mass. Rodrigo's successor on the Throne of St. Peter, Francesco Todeschini-Piccolomini, who assumed the name of Pope Pius III (1503), forbade the saying of a Mass for the repose of Rodrigo Borgia's soul, saying, "It is blasphemous to pray for the damned."

To your health ...

kindness is free · 06-18-2011, 12:44 AM

Thank you Finnegan for the information and family trees. I've been looking for a reliable site so thank you for the link

jnnj · 06-19-2011, 01:25 AM

Hello!

Just catching up! I like the plan about doing the family tree and bios first, then proceeding from there.

I've added the family tree that's been posted from the Showtime Wiki to the OP. We can update later on, if you guys would like.

Speaking of the OP, since we're prettying up the OPs of our threads, I took the liberties of doing an update. I'm not an artist by any means, as you'll see,

, and I wasn't on the computer with my Photoshop program. But it's a temporary update for now.

I've also started a links list. If there are any other links you'd like me to add just let me know.

It may be nice to "Reading Rec" list soon as well for those who would like to read more on the Renaissance and Borgia. So anyone has read really good books on the Borgias, just post the author, title, publisher, and date of publication (for reference purposes) and we'll begin making up a list.

Nonie · 06-19-2011, 03:19 AM

jnnj, you have done an excellent job with the OP!

kindness is free · 06-19-2011, 04:20 AM

J - The OP looks great I love the art and the layout of the OP

red velvet · 06-19-2011, 12:48 PM

The OP is looking very nice

kindness is free · 06-19-2011, 01:18 PM

So we have a family tree and links and some topics that we've discussed, do we need a little bio of the main characters? Compare them from History to the show?

red velvet · 06-19-2011, 01:38 PM

That'd make for a good addition

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Fan Forum > TV Shows - Past > The Borgias > History and The Borgias #1: Real vs. Reel