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Old 03-22-2018, 06:35 PM
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Cesare & Lucrezia #49: "Why deny ourselves the pleasure of which we’re already accused?"- Lucrezia to Cesare

Welcome to the 49th
Cesare Lucrezia
Appreciation Thread




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1. Any ship with its own love theme screams "True Love"
2. No couple can make nose-bumping a major turn-on
3. Because he only smiles when he's with her
4. Because even dinner knives ship them
5. Because he constantly misses her
6. Because if anything happens to her, he'd die
7. Because if it's up to him, she'll never marry
8. Because they're like Abelard and Heloise
9. Because any other couple on the show who think they're like Abelard and Heloise are F.A.K.E.
10. Because she'll never love a husband like she loves him
11. Because "I should keep you here in chains. I suspect you would be happier." And so would we!
12. Because she misses his hands and he misses her face.
13. Because he'll never forgive her scumbag husband.
14. Because killing her husband is easy and Cesare doesn't want easy.
15. Because he's the first person in the family to hold her baby.
16. Because she doesn't need her baby-daddy when Cesare is around
17. Because he was pacing like a true father-to-be when she went into labor
18. Because she'll always have him
19. Because even history ships them. They're so canon.
20. Because he carried her over the threshold on her wedding night
21. Because they're the ideal lovers.


Credit




Credit


Fanvids
My Love | My Heart | Sweet Lavina | Flames | Ships | You're In My Veins | Under The Sheets



Fanfiction
The Ideal - Recommendations on tumblr
Dark Paradise - A (hopefully) Comprehsive Borgias Fanfiction List



Links
Cesare ♥ Lucrezia on tumblr
Absolutely Enraptured on livejournal

Credit




"If you read the history, you find these two, this brother and sister, were utterly fascinated by each other. . . ." -- Neil Jordan, TVGuide.ca
". . . it's a story about two people who are absolutely enraptured with each other." -- Neil Jordan, TVGuide.ca
"I kind of want them to be almost the ideal lovers if they were not brother and sister . . . it's so protective as to being almost dangerous." (from Showtime clip, "Justified")
"I think we chose to play pure love." -- Francois Arnaud, nymag.com
"I think Holliday [Grainger, who plays Lucrezia] and I had a really strong chemistry from the start, and I just really enjoy working with her." -- Francois Arnaud, nymag.com
"There is a deep love and affection...They always have their hands in each other’s faces, but it is innocent.” -- Francois Arnaud, antcomic.com
"You must promise you'll be gentle, for this is love, not war, we are engaging in, my dear brother." -- Lucrezia, The Family
"...you, my dear sister, may teach me more about love and loyalty than I have learned so far..." -- Cesare, The Family
Though in every other instance [Cesare] was the aggressor, with [Lucrezia] - even here- he seemed under her power. -- The Family
"I can't imagine loving anyone as I love you in this moment." Lucrezia, The Family
"Come," [Cesare] said, drawing [Lucrezia] close. "I need you now. For you are what is real in my life." -- The Family
"It is not the pain of your kisses you see," she said. "They are the tears of my longing for you." -- Lucrezia, The Family
C: "To bed him is not the joy it is with me?" L: "My dear love, it is the difference between heaven and hell for me." -- The Family
"There will never be anyone like you for me, for you were my first love." -- Lucrezia to Cesare, The Family
"It was with you I first shared the secrets of my body, as well as the secrets of my heart and the most intimate thoughts of my mind." -- L to C, The Family
Suddenly the sweet face of his sister appeared, and he saw it as a sign, a symbol of their love. -- The Family
Her face had been the vision he'd followed into his victories. -- The Family
"I wish no barrier between us, my brother, my lover, my friend." -- Lucrezia, The Family
"...from this night on, all that is left of my passion will rest with you." -- L to C, The Family
"You must live for me... For what other reason should I live?" -- C to L, The Family
L: "Don't you love God, Cesare?" C: "More than I love you?" -- The Poisoned Chalice
L: "And when will I marry?" C: "Never, if I can help it." -- The Poisoned Chalice
"If anything happened to her... I'd die." -- Cesare, The Poisoned Chalice
L: "I think I shall never have another friend like him." C: "You'll always have me." -- The Moor
"If you hate beauty, dear sis, you must hate yourself." -- Cesare, The French King
L: "I've missed those hands." C: "And I've missed that face." -- Nessuno



Credit: May



~Quotes~

Lucrezia: "Don't hate me."
Cesare: "I regret many feelings towards you, hate is not one of them."

Cesare: "The whole world whispers, you and I are lovers. Should we prove them right?"

Lucrezia: "I want to die, brother."
Cesare: "Will you not talk like that, please!"

Cesare: "Can I hold him?"
Lucrezia: "And wake him? That would be cruelty indeed."
Cesare: "I must hold you then."

Lucrezia: "But we never before had secrets between us."
Cesare: "Some things are better left unsaid."
Lucrezia: "So I must divine then, the dark cloud on my brother's soul."

Cesare: "You are criminally well informed, sis. But I trust your soul is still of the purest white."

Lucrezia: "You will be a handsome Cardinal. Let me hug you!"

Cesare: "Lucrezia, sister, share my fortune and my fate. And remember that wherever I may be, a part of me will always be yours."
Lucrezia: "As I also belong to you, brother."

Lucrezia: "No one here loves me as I was loved by you. I've tried everything, Cesare. No one wants to hear our name."

Lucrezia: "My soul dies when I imagine never seeing you again."

Cesare: "Lucrezia, Lucia, forgive me. All will be well if you forgive me. But you must live, sweet sister, live. We are one blood, one heart, one spirit."
Lucrezia: "Cesare, love me!"
Cesare: "For all eternity.

Cesare: "Cesare Borgia and Lucrezia, we shall be remembered. Be faithful only to me not to him, the unholy father who prays to a nameless god. You shall have the world, not the hereafter. And your name eternal."
Lucrezia: "I shall be duchess of Ferrarra, it's enough for me."
Cesare: "In name but nothing more."
Lucrezia: "In name and nothing more."

Cesare: "I promised you a heart, sister."
Lucrezia: "Whose? Your own?"

Lucrezia: "What does it say of us, brother, that you promise me this and I would accept?"

Lucrezia: "Cesare? I would ask you something.”
Cesare: “Then ask and it is yours.”
Lucrezia: “I would ask you to marry me.”
Cesare: “As you wish. My word is my word. We shall run away. Change our names, perhaps. Live out our days in some small fishing village by the coast. where no one will ever guess who we once were.”
Lucrezia: "To Alfonso."
Cesare: "Yes, yes, I know."

Cesare: "My love for my sister outweighs my grief for my brother."

Cesare: "Are you a shepherd of souls now?
Lucrezia: "And I see before me a lost sheep."
Cesare: "Utterly lost, my love."
Lucrezia: "Then, by hook or by crook I shall save you. You may kiss my ring!"

Cesare: "Don't I know how to organize a party for my sister?"
Lucrezia: "Thank you, Cesare!"
Cesare: "And I think I've done well. Look. I'm the one who chose the guests."
Lucrezia: "They're all courtesans."
Cesare: "Did you desire monks and nuns?"
Lucrezia: "Oh, no! No formalities!"

Lucrezia: "So then, I shall become a nun. For I shall never love a husband as I love you, Cesare."



* a family scene with Lucrezia, Cesare and the baby
* a dance laden with sexual tension
* a kiss on the lips
* secret whispers and clandestine trysts noticed by others
* rumors of incest spreading just to see Cesare and Lucrezia reactions
* a fight between them ending in a scene with lots of emotional tension
* angsty scene with the both of them crying
* jealous Lucrezia and jealous Cesare
* Cesare defending Lucrezia's honour, even what he is doing is mostly lying because something did happen. And vice versa.
* more reactions on how others perceive the relationship, e.g. Juan
* Cesare helping Lucrezia take care of the baby
* Lucrezia going after someone to protect Cesare
* Cesare killing someone because of his feelings for Lucrezia
* Lucrezia wishing the baby was Cesare's
* Lucrezia sitting on Cesare's lap at some official function
* C&L riding out to the forest, away from prying eyes
* C&L admitting their love and feelings for each other in a dramatic scene
* C&L talking further about their runaway plan, this time more serious. Calling each other husband/wife, talking about having children and what they would look like etc.
* Cesare standing silenty in the door opening, watching Lucrezia brushing her hair and holding is breath when he sees a bear shoulder.
* Cesare receiving a hairlock from Lucrezia.
* Cesare watching over a dying Lucrezia, after she lost her baby, begging her not to leave him (sobbing). Otherwise he doesn't want to live and everything he does will be useless without her.
* Lucrezia performing a seductive dance, Cesare is watching her while new feelings arouse in him. Perhaps at the famous chestnut banquet?
* Lucrezia seeing Cesare masked
* Lucrezia watching Cesare taking a bath (inside or outside)
* Lucrezia telling Cesare how handsome he is, while stroking his facial features with her finger.
* Lucrezia asking Cesare to give her a child, so she'll always have him near (a bit silly, but one can only dream).
* And of course: a long romantic kiss and a steamy bedscene!!!
* Lucrezia getting drunk after Alfonso's murder and confessing her conflicting feelings to Cesare


Credit

* * *



#1 Lucrezia: "I've missed those hands." - Cesare: "And I've missed that face."
#2 Lucrezia: "And if my husband proves ungallant?" - Cesare: "I shall cut out his heart with a dinner knife and serve it to you."
#3 Cesare: "I beg you not to worry about it, sis. I will find a solution, I swear!"
#4 Lucrezia: "Don't you love God, Cesare?" - Cesare: "More than I love you?"
#5 Cesare lays Lucrezia on her bed and kisses her cheek at her wedding night.



Past Threads

{01}{02}{03}{04}{05}{06}{7}{8}{9}{10}{11}{12}{13}{14}{15}{16}{17}{18}{19}{20}{21}{22}{23}{24}{25}{26}{27}{28}{29}{30}{31}{32}{33}{34}{35}{36}{37}{38}{39}{40}{41}{42}{43}{44}{45}{46}{47}{48}




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Last edited by PhoenixRising; 05-18-2018 at 05:41 PM
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Old 03-22-2018, 06:41 PM
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Here's the conversation from the previous thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by LindaL100 (View Post)
Well let's not forget that the Borgia family were originally from Spain before they moved to Italy, and according to history, after the downfall of the family, Cesare was imprisoned in Spain, after he escaped imprisonment he lived the last few years of his life in Spain. So it's only natural for him to be buried in Spain, considering his Spanish heritage and Spain was the last place where he spent his last years in. Although it is sad that he was not buried with Lucrezia but at least he is buried in the same church as their father Rodrigo in Spain.

Traditionally married couples are suppose to be buried next to each other, and after Lu's third marriage to Alfonso d'Este the duke of Ferrara, she became part of the Este family, so when she died she was buried next to her husband and several other members of the Este family in Italy.

I still need to read Puzo's novel again to refresh my memory, there's a lot in the book that I have forgotten, but I vaguely remember in the novel, Lu inherited some of Cesare's possessions after his death, including his sword, which was very significant. Normally the widowed spouse would inherit the possessions and assets of their deceased husband or wife, but in Puzo's novel, Lu inherited Cesare's possessions, proving that while the siblings were both legally married to other people at the time, but emotionally and spiritually, the siblings loved each other like they were each other's true spouses And that's how Cesare & Lu's incestuous relationship is generally portrayed in popular culture, in most if not all fictional adaptations about the Borgia family, Cesare & Lu's relationship is always portrayed as incestuous. And while they're both legally married to other people on paper only, but deep down emotionally and spiritually, Cesare & Lu loved each other like husband and wife, they were each other's real spouses
Quote:
Originally Posted by DGSAFDMD (View Post)
I believe that's one of the many reasons why people started the whole incest rumor between them, and from then on many rumors came out to the point that some even said that before Lucrezia was with her first husband Cesare and Lucrezia were together and Rodrigo witnessed and all this crap that I honestly don't believe is true.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DGSAFDMD (View Post)
I like to think Cesare/Lucrezia were closer to Los Borgia version. Meaning they never went to bed but they definitely loved each other the most and maybe even romantically. I also like to think Cesare was a prick with everyone else except with her which also happens in Los Borgia.

If I go to Borgia, that's very complicated, because I like the way they portrayed the relationship at the end but not in the beginning and also they had Cesare crazier which is cool I guess but I like to think Cesare was smarter and less insane than Borgia's.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LindaL100 (View Post)
that sounds more like Francois' version in The Borgias...while Francois' Cesare definitely had his sadistic and violent side to him, but unlike the Cesare in 'Borgia', Francois' version of the character was also much more calm and collected, level-headed and smarter in comparison. I think Francois' Cesare was also more mature and wiser overall than Mark Ryder's version...maybe that's because Francois' Cesare was older in The Borgias, while Mark's Cesare was younger in Borgia.

I really love how Cesare & Lu's relationship was portrayed in the Showtime version because their relationship was written much more consistently and solid from the beginning to the end in The Borgias, and not to mention the awesome chemistry between Francois & Holly these reasons made their incestuous connection between the siblings so believable and compelling in The Borgias the incest really was not well written nor carefully thought out in Borgia.
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Old 03-23-2018, 03:37 AM
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thanks for the new thread Alex
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Catherine & Vincent (Beauty & the Beast) ~ Cesare & Lucrezia (The Borgias) ~ Booth & Brennan (Bones) ~ Clarke & Bellamy (The 100)
Jack & Rose (Titanic) ~ Starlord/Peter & Gamora (GOTG) ~ Jake & Neytiri (Avatar)
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Old 03-23-2018, 03:03 PM
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tftnt, Alex! I love the title!
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Old 03-23-2018, 05:15 PM
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You're both welcome, Arinna and Linda!

I understand that Spain is Cesare's home, and I guess it makes sense to want his remains there because of his family. I just don't like that he's so far away from Lucrezia.

Now didn't Mario Puzo write that he wanted Cesare to take Lucrezia's virginity so that the first man she would be with was a Borgia, to keep her close to the family? And did Rodrigo want Cesare to impregnate her, or was it just ceremonial?
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Old 03-23-2018, 05:38 PM
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See Alex, that's the stuff I remember. I just don't remember where it came from but someone wrote Rodrigo witnessing Lucrezia and Cesare having sex.
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Old 03-23-2018, 06:43 PM
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Oh, so that wasn't just Mario Puzo, but someone's actual account of the family history?
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Old 03-24-2018, 03:16 PM
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Yes, Alex.
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Old 03-26-2018, 10:06 AM
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HI EVERYONEEEE Sorry I've been MIA for a few months I've been on kind of a Star Wars high Other than that, I've been off the boards for a while.


Quote:
Originally Posted by PhoenixRising (View Post)
Now didn't Mario Puzo write that he wanted Cesare to take Lucrezia's virginity so that the first man she would be with was a Borgia, to keep her close to the family? And did Rodrigo want Cesare to impregnate her, or was it just ceremonial?

Makes sense. "Only a Borgia can truly love a Borgia." The looks between Cesare and Lucrezia were undeniably filled with attraction WAY before they entered an incestuous relationship.


In fact, the chemistry was so strong between Francois and Holly that I often forgot that they were playing siblings
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Old 03-26-2018, 12:07 PM
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Quote:
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Oh, so that wasn't just Mario Puzo, but someone's actual account of the family history?
No, I think this might be the same I read some time ago and it came from a book and not a tv show. Mostly for sure is fiction, but I mean many people consider rumors of the borgias to be "true" so who knows.
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Old 03-26-2018, 02:33 PM
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Who, actually knows really?

Quote:
In fact, the chemistry was so strong between Francois and Holly that I often forgot that they were playing siblings
Me too! And hello, hun! You've been missed!
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Old 03-26-2018, 06:01 PM
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Well, the Mario Puzo thing was a book, May. But you don't remember which book it was your read?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4brathan&brucas (View Post)
HI EVERYONEEEE Sorry I've been MIA for a few months I've been on kind of a Star Wars high Other than that, I've been off the boards for a while.

Makes sense. "Only a Borgia can truly love a Borgia." The looks between Cesare and Lucrezia were undeniably filled with attraction WAY before they entered an incestuous relationship.

In fact, the chemistry was so strong between Francois and Holly that I often forgot that they were playing siblings
Hi, Gwen! Welcome back! We've missed you!

Yeah, we feel the same way. I think that Francois and Holly weren't even trying to play them as siblings near the end. Everything about them was totally romantic for most of the show.
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Old 03-27-2018, 11:30 AM
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Arinna + Alex Thank you both


Quote:
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I think that Francois and Holly weren't even trying to play them as siblings near the end. Everything about them was totally romantic for most of the show.

You could tell from interviews that they were excited to play Cesare and Lucrezia as lovers. Francois had been waiting since episode one


I don't get why it would freak audiences out It was historical legend that they might have even had a baby together.


Plus, there's like an incestuous couple on Game of Thrones every other episode, so
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Old 03-27-2018, 02:08 PM
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They both insisted that Cesare and Lucrezia loved each other.
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Old 03-27-2018, 02:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BL.Arinna_1982 (View Post)
They both insisted that Cesare and Lucrezia loved each other.


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