Crystal Clear

And both Francois + Holliday waited impatiently for it to finally happen they shipped themselves



This is a basic summary of their entire relationship +

BL.Arinna_1982

Yeah, they looked so happy.

PhoenixRising

Hi, Gwen! Thanks. I like to think that I can give thoughtful analysis of Cesare and Lucrezia's relationship.

Hi, Linda! Arinna loves posting her gifs.

Yep, the incest was all over the place in the first two seasons even though they didn't get sexual until season 3. But I did like that Francois and Holly pushed for it and played up their chemistry in every scene they were in. They both had a real understanding of their characters' relationship.

Mignonette

Hi Linda! Yes, I agree! They were incestuous emotionally and spiritually from their first scene. They were sexually incestuous long before they actually consummated their love, because they were definitely sexual with each other.

Ces left the window directly over his bed unlatched while having sex in 1x01. He knew without checking that the knocking noise outside that window was Lu, and she told him "a fine lady - ANOTHER one", so he knew she'd watched him before and yet he still left the window unlatched (the fact that it does latch is stated in 3x01 when the assassin tells the nurse maid to leave it unlatched). He let her see him naked, aroused, having sex, because he wanted her to see him as a MAN and desire him as he desired her. The same reason he didn't wash the sex scents off before he chased her, threw her onto the ground, and laid on top touching her an inch from her face.

Lu did the same thing in 3x02 when she told Ces to come into her room as she was lying naked on her bed. She showed him her body, because she wanted him to see her as a WOMAN and desire her as she desired him.

There were many more instances where they acted sexual with each other like when Ces pushed her up against the wall in the gif Arinna posted - thanks Arinna!

BL.Arinna_1982

Mignonette

I love the colors in your gif Arinna! Ces was always so tender with her when she needed him. He treated her like glass. No other man could ever compare to her brother

PhoenixRising

Hi, Lila! Did you see my post to you?

Mignonette

Where Alex?

Crystal Clear

I agree with the glass comparison he always looked so afraid when she was emotionally hurt.


I found this old interview with Francois Arnaud talking to INTERVIEW just after the show was cancelled; his quotes would make good titles for the 50th thread -


https://www.interviewmagazine.com/film/francois-arnaud

BL.Arinna_1982

And like Francois told Neil, it was all over his writing.

PhoenixRising

Hi, Gwen! Thanks for that article! Francois was absolutely correct.

Right here, Lila. I guess you didn't see it.

Mignonette

Oh no, I didn't see it, I'm sorry Alex! Thanks for letting me know I missed it! The sexual aspect of CL relationship is fascinating, not just because of the physical consummation of their love, but because of how they deal with it emotionally and psychologically.

Making love completely changed how they related to each other. Warning! Long post ahead, cause this is my favorite subject

Before sex, they were so comfortable with each other. Lu was almost telepathic with Ces, reading his face, his eyes, and knowing what he was thinking. She had much more insight into him than he had into her. He was pretty clueless into her psyche, wasn't he?

She was much more astute than he ever gave her credit for. She knew they had to buy votes to get their father elected pope, that Ces was lying about Djem's death, & that her marriage to Sforza was for a strategic alliance.

Most importantly, she knew Ces wanted her sexually and was completely aware of the sex games he played with her.

They'd played the game of "want and wanting" since their first scene. But Ces always thought he was the one playing with her. He didn't realize his sweet little sister was playing along with him.

She told him repeatedly she was NOT innocent and naive, but he just didn't get it. That's why he was blown away when she took off all her clothes and had him come into her bedroom.

After he kissed her in the armory, she knew he was ready to make their love physical. She'd been waiting for him to make a move. After he killed Sforza, he said "I promised you a heart" and she said "whose, your own?".

That kiss did NOT wake up her desire for him - it was already there and she was FULLY AWARE of it, but she knew he wasn't ready to act until that kiss. When he asked "do you mean me for him?", she caressed his armor in a very sexual way and said "that too". And when he said "let him know that" after he kissed her, she said "I fear he knows already". Lu's smart, very self-aware, and always read Ces like a book.

Even though he kissed her, he was still holding back, so she knew she had to hit him over the head to wake him up and force his hand He just simply COULD NOT see her as anything but a damsel in need of his protection, a girl, not a woman.

She had to show him her womanly body to get him past that. And she didn't just show him part of her body, she showed him ALL of it!

This was done subtly and very artfully in the 3x02 scene. In fact, so subtly that many viewers missed it. Not you and me, Alex, because we have dirty minds

For any readers not aware of what she did, here it is:

When Ces opened the door, she was lying naked on her side with her wedding dress strategically placed to cover her breasts and crotch. Remember she's TOTALLY naked...

Ces closes the door, checking if anyone has seen him go in. He knows they're crossing the line. When he turns back to Lu, the camera shows her from behind, so only Ces sees her from the front. She has moved her arm. It's now resting along her side, and she's arched back pushing out her chest and hips and she's LET HER DRESS FALL AWAY REVEALING HER ENTIRE FRONT. Her breasts and everything else are uncovered for him. He sees it all!

That's why he stands there stunned speechless while his eyes settle first on her breasts and then on her crotch before finally settling wide-eyed on her face. He slowly recovers and manages to stutter "I sssshould go sis..".

Of course he doesn't want to go and has NO INTENTION of going! He's closed the door, so it's pretty obvious he's going nowhere But he has to say that for his own sanity.

When the camera shows her from the front, she's put her arm down and covered herself partially with the dress again. She's teasing him. Showing him and then covering - it's what we women do to men

She asks "why? Am I ugly brother?" He's trapped! This question shows her intent and causes him to focus only on her attractiveness keeping him locked visually. He can't leave, because he can't stop thinking with his eyes...which have a direct path to his ****

Then she deals the master blow: she lifts her foot and tells him to feel it. We see her from behind again, so we don't see what Ces sees.

Alex, you got it from the start didn't you? What we don't see is that when she lifted her foot, she spread her legs for him and showed him her *****. Yes, she did

Poor Ces looked stunned again and when he walked toward her, he took a big breath and let it out slowly through his mouth. He knew exactly what she wanted. He asked, "is this a game?" when he took hold of her foot. He knew it wasn't, but he couldn't admit to himself what he was doing.

OMG he tried so hard to keep his eyes locked on her foot and no where else That's when she told him "it is a game of want and wanting". The same game they'd always played, but now she was confronting him by naming it. She'd always known and was comfortable with it. Ces was the conflicted one.

When he let go of her calf, because he knew she was having him work his way up her leg, he asked again "what game is this sis?". She knew he wasn't going to go any further, because he'd collected himself and withdrawn into his "armor".

That's why she brought up Alf. She wanted to make her brother confess his desire for her and take action on it by provoking his jealousy. And it worked, because he said "I'm sure you have the means to change that history" when she told him Alf was a virgin and wouldn't touch her.

She said "are you sure?" and pulled him down onto the bed with her and he went willingly, saying "I'm certain". This was the first time he'd verbalized his desire for her. And still he wouldn't touch her. She had to keep PROVOKING him.

She knew he wanted to touch her, but needed pushing. Which is why she brushed his hair back, putting her hand on his neck, drawing him closer, and saying "you look but don't touch". She wanted to go all the way with him. You don't show a guy your ***** if you don't want him to **** you! His "at last" made it clear he was going for it. If the maid hadn't interrupted them, it would've happened.

The knowledge that he'd been about to **** his little sister hit him after the knock, but when Lu turned over showing him her naked breasts again and now also showed him her naked ass, he couldn't help staring. She knew exactly how to penetrate his armor to get him to penetrate her. Like you said Alex, his armor was no match for her naked body

By the end time he left her room, he'd seen every part of her naked body and was a goner!

None of this was about Alf. He was her convenient, but necessary excuse. This was incest, so she needed an excuse. She was NOT going to Ces by default. She wanted him more than anything. But in order for her to fully own her incestuous desire for her brother, she needed to feel rejected by Alf to act on it.

Alex, yes, I want a custom avatar! A moving one. But I don't know how to do that . I'm a writer, not a computer person.

BL.Arinna_1982

Crystal Clear

I have no problem with your long post, Lila -- I used to do them, too!


Totally agree with your last part, that Alfonso walking away was the ultimate push she needed to relieve herself of any guilt for her incestuous true love for Cesare.


I would love to open the 50th thread, guys My title suggestion is:

{Cesare ♥ Lucrezia} ~ Celebrating 50 Threads of Fulfilling their "Want and Wanting" Game

Mignonette

Thanks Gwen! I just discovered TB a few months ago, so have plenty to say

I love that title! It describes their relationship perfectly. They had wanted each other for so long, but their love was forbidden, so they were left wanting until the end. They both just finally said **** it! and went for it

Do you think she felt guilt for loving Cesare, Gwen? And do you mean before she acted on it or after or both? I know he suffered terribly with guilt and shame.

I always had the feeling that Lu didn't act on her feelings for him, because she knew he wasn't ready to take things to that level. She could read him so well.

When he kissed her in the armory, she knew he was ready and Alf gave her an excuse to push Ces into going all the way with her. If the maid hadn't interrupted them, he would have given her everything she wanted right then.

I'm glad they became lovers on her wedding night, because it was so symbolic of their desire to marry. He was so happy when she told him he'd be her husband for the night. I love how she paused before adding the "tonight", because her wish was for him to be her husband every night. And he had wanted so badly to be her husband on her wedding night to Sforza that he carried her to bed and stayed with her.

How did NJ write all that and not see their relationship as incestuous?