Yes, I know what you mean, Arinna. :lol:

I'll answer your post soon, Linda. :) I'm a little worn out from work today and I'm gonna take an early nap. :yawn:

You should answer the girl today, Alex. :P

Hi, Linda! :wave:

Well, if Showtime had commissioned a season 4, Jordan would still be running it, don't you think? :( And he's just end up ruining things... unless Showtime decided to replace him as show runner and go in a different direction than the one Jordan had planned with his stupid Apocalypse script. :sick:

Yeah, having Lucrezia poison Rodrigo and Cesare is stupid considering she was living in Ferrara and the time with her third husband. It's incredibly inaccurate to the history. And what would her motive be? She kills her father because of those arranged marriages? And she has even less reason to kill Cesare. And why would she risk the chaos that would engulf Rome, as well as her family, if both Cesare and her father died? :rolleyes:

You really think that Francois and Holly would've fought Jordan on this issue, Linda? :lol: Too bad we'll never know now. And we'll also never know the reason for Jordan's decision to forego a fourth season and attempt that stupid Apocalypse movie. :sick:


Oh, and I'm glad you like my idea about Ces and Lu continuing their relationship even after her third marriage. :lol: Yeah, that third marriage was hardly a marriage and all, and Lucrezia and Alfonso d'Este were never faithful to each other anyway.

Yep, she wasn't faithful to any of her husbands. :lol:

Hey, Linda? :( I'm really sorry I forgot to post your birthday on the birthday thread last week. I keep missing everyone's birthdays and I'm really sorry and frustrated. Moderating three boards is keeping me so busy I'm forgetting everything. But I posted to you on our birthday thread if you wanna check it out. :nod: Again, I'm really sorry. :( :hug:

I hope she stops by soon. :)

Arinna: yes I know, I've never liked Manfred & Creek's relationship in Midnight Texas and probably never will, one of the main reasons is because they totally lack chemistry, Sarah Ramos is the only female co-star I have seen who I think lacks chemistry with Francois, which is surprising because Francois usually has good chemistry with most of his female co-stars. I think he has more chemistry with both the actresses who play Olivia and Fiji in the series, and he's not even paired with either of these ladies in the series :P

Alex:

Thanks alot for posting my b'day! :)
Yes Neil Jordan probably would've continued to be the showrunner for S4, but when you work on a production there are many other co-producers and writers and other colleagues working with you and often they can influence your ideas and decisions. From all the interviews of Jordan, Francois and Holliday that I have watched and read, it sounds to me like Jordan was never particularly keen on the incest storyline. Yes he wanted to portray Cesare & Lucrezia as the perfect couple if they weren't siblings, so he wrote the siblings' relationship with incestuous overtones from the beginning, but I don't think he really intentionally wanted to take their relationship to that next level as he did in S3 when the siblings became fully incestuous both emotionally and physically. And let's not forget that both Francois and Holly had argued with Jordan about the incest numerous times during filming. Francois even mentioned in one of his interviews for S3 that Jordan told them "everything I told you guys not to do in the first 2 seasons, do them now", which implies to me that other people may have greatly influenced some of Jordan's decisions and that his hand might have been forced regarding some of those decisions. In the case of Cesare & Lu's incestuous relationship, I do get the impression that Jordan was never too keen on taking their incest so far as he did in S3, but rather it seemed to me that the decision to take their incestuous relationship to the next level in S3 was really other people strongly influencing Jordan (probably mainly Francois & Holly themselves) and he eventually relented in the end. This is further supported by the fact that Jordan completely destroyed the siblings' relationship in his book after the series was cancelled...the whole tone of Jordan's book completely changed, there were too many inconsistencies in the book that contradicted the series, including Cesare & Lu's incestuous relationship, it just feels like Jordan might have wrote the book out of spite, perhaps trying to get back at the people who had influenced him and forced his hand when he worked on the series. After the show was cancelled and Jordan worked on his book, he was finally free to write whatever he wanted, there was no one else there to influence him or force his hand in any ideas or decisions anymore. But if Showtime had commission a S4, then other people would've continued to influence his ideas and decisions on the show and he would've continued to bend over backwards to please other people. I think Cesare & Lu took their relationship to that next level and became fully incestuous both emotionally and physically in S3 because Jordan had bent over backwards to please Francois, Holly, the other producers and of course us fans. It's obvious to me that both Francois and Holly themselves were a lot more keen on the incest than Jordan was, and he was probably aware of just how popular Cesare & Lu's incestuous relationship had become with fans and shippers also, so he eventually relented in the end.

If they had made a S4, I definitely think a lot of the writing from Jordan's book probably would've been changed, he probably would've faced quite a lot of opposition from some of the casts and maybe even the other producers and writers. Considering the fact that Francois & Holly themselves argued with Jordan several times during filming over the incest plotline, I find it hard to imagine that they would've approved of the atrocious writing and garbage Jordan wrote in his book, I think they probably would've wanted a happier ending for Cesare & Lu in S4 :D I also think Jeremy Irons probably wouldn't have been too happy with how Rodrigo died in Jordan's book either.

I'm not sure if you guys know this but a fan recently tweeted Francois a question asking him if he prefers Cesare & Lucrezia's romance better or the Manfred & Creek couple in Midnight Texas...of course he didn't answer the question because he "didn't want to get into trouble" with fans, but I personally think it was a stupid question. I mean, how can you even compare Cesare & Lucrezia's heartfelt and brilliantly compelling lovestory, to the dull and boring Manfred & Creek?:nono: Not to mention Francois and Sarah Ramos completely lacked any chemistry together in Midnight Texas :nono: they're completely and utterly NO match whatsoever against the incredible and electrifying chemistry Francois had with Holly!:love:

I know what you mean, Linda. :nod: He usually has chemistry with everything that's breathing on screen. :lol: I miss that chemistry now. :shrug: I wish he and Holy are paired again in another show sometime soon. What they've had in The Borgias was amazing!

You're welcome, Linda! :hug: Did you see the birthday gifs I posted for you on our Birthday thread? :) It's kind of a tradition to post there for everyone's birthdays. :nod: Again, I'm sorry I didn't post it there sooner. :hug:

http://www.fanforum.com/f367/borgias...-joy-63145159/


I'll reply to your post soon, Linda. :nod: I was out watching a movie earlier and Arinna was out at a party, so we didn't get to post much today. And I have to go to bed soon. :wave:

https://media.giphy.com/media/LNWot6xXVQuA/source.gif

:love:

Eskimo kiss :love:

Loved that "their" thing! :sigh:

Aww, I love Cesare and Lucrezia's Eskimo kisses! :love:


Hi, Barbara! :wave:

Hi, Linda! :wave:

Well, I still think that The Borgias could've continued without Neil Jordan. It wouldn't be the first time a showrunner left a show that continued without them. :nod: Many shows have done that before, like Lost and The Walking Dead.

Where did you read the interviews where Jordan didn't like the Cesare/Lucrezia romance? And again, as Francois and Holly had said previously, what did Jordan expect? If he wasn't going to get them together then what was all that interaction for across the first two seasons? :facepalm: He can say that it wasn't his intention, but he didn't have to have the two of them act so romantically with each other. Look at the other Borgia TV show. Cesare and Lucrezia didn't actually have sex in that one if I'm not mistaken, but they came damn close a couple of times. Jordan needed to remember Anton Chekhov's rule: If you show the audience a gun hanging on a wall in the first act, it must be fired by the final act or it shouldn't be there. Well, Jordan hung that gun on the wall going all the way back to season one, so if he didn't fire it he'd be betraying the audience.

And if Francois admitted that Jordan actually told him and Holly to go ahead and do all the things he didn't want them to do, then he's equally guilty. And it's not like they didn't do those things in the first two seasons. :lol: If Jordan didn't want that, he wasn't very strict with them about it, regardless of whether or not he felt "forced."

And as a writer, Jordan of all people should know that his Apocalypse storyline would've contradicted too many things from his previously established storyline across three seasons, so if he had made Apocalypse the way he wanted he'd have been accused of lazy and inconsistent writing. :(

Oh, and thanks for the info about that fan who Tweeted to Francois. :) I don't think it was necessarily a stupid question because it's the kind of question I've heard before. But you're right that it's out of context because you can't really compare the two couples. And yeah, ironically, Francois had better chemistry with the actress playing his sister than the one playing his love interest in Midnight, Texas. :lol:

http://68.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ll...s1oco1_500.gif

"I have missed those hands!"

"And I have missed this face!"

:love:

Oh, another great gif! :love: Thanks, Arinna! :)