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PhoenixRising 09-08-2017 02:33 PM

Cesare & Lucrezia #48: "I am tired of my husband. I am tired of life. The only thing that never tires me is you." - Lucrezia to Cesare
Welcome to the 48th
Cesare Lucrezia
Appreciation Thread

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:star: :star: :star:

1. Any ship with its own love theme screams "True Love"
2. No couple can make nose-bumping a major turn-on
3. Because he only smiles when he's with her
4. Because even dinner knives ship them
5. Because he constantly misses her
6. Because if anything happens to her, he'd die
7. Because if it's up to him, she'll never marry
8. Because they're like Abelard and Heloise
9. Because any other couple on the show who think they're like Abelard and Heloise are F.A.K.E.
10. Because she'll never love a husband like she loves him
11. Because "I should keep you here in chains. I suspect you would be happier." And so would we!
12. Because she misses his hands and he misses her face.
13. Because he'll never forgive her scumbag husband.
14. Because killing her husband is easy and Cesare doesn't want easy.
15. Because he's the first person in the family to hold her baby.
16. Because she doesn't need her baby-daddy when Cesare is around
17. Because he was pacing like a true father-to-be when she went into labor
18. Because she'll always have him
19. Because even history ships them. They're so canon.
20. Because he carried her over the threshold on her wedding night
21. Because they're the ideal lovers.

:star: :star: :star:

My Love | My Heart | Sweet Lavina | Flames | Ships | You're In My Veins | Under The Sheets


The Ideal - Recommendations on tumblr
Dark Paradise - A (hopefully) Comprehsive Borgias Fanfiction List


Cesare ♥ Lucrezia on tumblr
Absolutely Enraptured on livejournal

:star: :star: :star:

"If you read the history, you find these two, this brother and sister, were utterly fascinated by each other. . . ." -- Neil Jordan,
". . . it's a story about two people who are absolutely enraptured with each other." -- Neil Jordan,
"I kind of want them to be almost the ideal lovers if they were not brother and sister . . . it's so protective as to being almost dangerous." (from Showtime clip, "Justified")
"I think we chose to play pure love." -- Francois Arnaud,
"I think Holliday [Grainger, who plays Lucrezia] and I had a really strong chemistry from the start, and I just really enjoy working with her." -- Francois Arnaud,
"There is a deep love and affection...They always have their hands in each other’s faces, but it is innocent.” -- Francois Arnaud,
"You must promise you'll be gentle, for this is love, not war, we are engaging in, my dear brother." -- Lucrezia, The Family
", my dear sister, may teach me more about love and loyalty than I have learned so far..." -- Cesare, The Family
Though in every other instance [Cesare] was the aggressor, with [Lucrezia] - even here- he seemed under her power. -- The Family
"I can't imagine loving anyone as I love you in this moment." Lucrezia, The Family
"Come," [Cesare] said, drawing [Lucrezia] close. "I need you now. For you are what is real in my life." -- The Family
"It is not the pain of your kisses you see," she said. "They are the tears of my longing for you." -- Lucrezia, The Family
C: "To bed him is not the joy it is with me?" L: "My dear love, it is the difference between heaven and hell for me." -- The Family
"There will never be anyone like you for me, for you were my first love." -- Lucrezia to Cesare, The Family
"It was with you I first shared the secrets of my body, as well as the secrets of my heart and the most intimate thoughts of my mind." -- L to C, The Family
Suddenly the sweet face of his sister appeared, and he saw it as a sign, a symbol of their love. -- The Family
Her face had been the vision he'd followed into his victories. -- The Family
"I wish no barrier between us, my brother, my lover, my friend." -- Lucrezia, The Family
"...from this night on, all that is left of my passion will rest with you." -- L to C, The Family
"You must live for me... For what other reason should I live?" -- C to L, The Family
L: "Don't you love God, Cesare?" C: "More than I love you?" -- The Poisoned Chalice
L: "And when will I marry?" C: "Never, if I can help it." -- The Poisoned Chalice
"If anything happened to her... I'd die." -- Cesare, The Poisoned Chalice
L: "I think I shall never have another friend like him." C: "You'll always have me." -- The Moor
"If you hate beauty, dear sis, you must hate yourself." -- Cesare, The French King
L: "I've missed those hands." C: "And I've missed that face." -- Nessuno
Credit: May

:star: :star: :star:


Lucrezia: "Don't hate me."
Cesare: "I regret many feelings towards you, hate is not one of them."

Cesare: "The whole world whispers, you and I are lovers. Should we prove them right?"

Lucrezia: "I want to die, brother."
Cesare: "Will you not talk like that, please!"

Cesare: "Can I hold him?"
Lucrezia: "And wake him? That would be cruelty indeed."
Cesare: "I must hold you then."

Lucrezia: "But we never before had secrets between us."
Cesare: "Some things are better left unsaid."
Lucrezia: "So I must divine then, the dark cloud on my brother's soul."

Cesare: "You are criminally well informed, sis. But I trust your soul is still of the purest white."

Lucrezia: "You will be a handsome Cardinal. Let me hug you!"

Cesare: "Lucrezia, sister, share my fortune and my fate. And remember that wherever I may be, a part of me will always be yours."
Lucrezia: "As I also belong to you, brother."

Lucrezia: "No one here loves me as I was loved by you. I've tried everything, Cesare. No one wants to hear our name."

Lucrezia: "My soul dies when I imagine never seeing you again."

Cesare: "Lucrezia, Lucia, forgive me. All will be well if you forgive me. But you must live, sweet sister, live. We are one blood, one heart, one spirit."
Lucrezia: "Cesare, love me!"
Cesare: "For all eternity.

Cesare: "Cesare Borgia and Lucrezia, we shall be remembered. Be faithful only to me not to him, the unholy father who prays to a nameless god. You shall have the world, not the hereafter. And your name eternal."
Lucrezia: "I shall be duchess of Ferrarra, it's enough for me."
Cesare: "In name but nothing more."
Lucrezia: "In name and nothing more."

Cesare: "I promised you a heart, sister."
Lucrezia: "Whose? Your own?"

Lucrezia: "What does it say of us, brother, that you promise me this and I would accept?"

Lucrezia: "Cesare? I would ask you something.”
Cesare: “Then ask and it is yours.”
Lucrezia: “I would ask you to marry me.”
Cesare: “As you wish. My word is my word. We shall run away. Change our names, perhaps. Live out our days in some small fishing village by the coast. where no one will ever guess who we once were.”
Lucrezia: "To Alfonso."
Cesare: "Yes, yes, I know."

Cesare: "My love for my sister outweighs my grief for my brother."

Cesare: "Are you a shepherd of souls now?
Lucrezia: "And I see before me a lost sheep."
Cesare: "Utterly lost, my love."
Lucrezia: "Then, by hook or by crook I shall save you. You may kiss my ring!"

Cesare: "Don't I know how to organize a party for my sister?"
Lucrezia: "Thank you, Cesare!"
Cesare: "And I think I've done well. Look. I'm the one who chose the guests."
Lucrezia: "They're all courtesans."
Cesare: "Did you desire monks and nuns?"
Lucrezia: "Oh, no! No formalities!"

Lucrezia: "So then, I shall become a nun. For I shall never love a husband as I love you, Cesare."

* a family scene with Lucrezia, Cesare and the baby
* a dance laden with sexual tension
* a kiss on the lips
* secret whispers and clandestine trysts noticed by others
* rumors of incest spreading just to see Cesare and Lucrezia reactions
* a fight between them ending in a scene with lots of emotional tension
* angsty scene with the both of them crying
* jealous Lucrezia and jealous Cesare
* Cesare defending Lucrezia's honour, even what he is doing is mostly lying because something did happen. And vice versa.
* more reactions on how others perceive the relationship, e.g. Juan
* Cesare helping Lucrezia take care of the baby
* Lucrezia going after someone to protect Cesare
* Cesare killing someone because of his feelings for Lucrezia
* Lucrezia wishing the baby was Cesare's
* Lucrezia sitting on Cesare's lap at some official function
* C&L riding out to the forest, away from prying eyes
* C&L admitting their love and feelings for each other in a dramatic scene
* C&L talking further about their runaway plan, this time more serious. Calling each other husband/wife, talking about having children and what they would look like etc.
* Cesare standing silenty in the door opening, watching Lucrezia brushing her hair and holding is breath when he sees a bear shoulder.
* Cesare receiving a hairlock from Lucrezia.
* Cesare watching over a dying Lucrezia, after she lost her baby, begging her not to leave him (sobbing). Otherwise he doesn't want to live and everything he does will be useless without her.
* Lucrezia performing a seductive dance, Cesare is watching her while new feelings arouse in him. Perhaps at the famous chestnut banquet?
* Lucrezia seeing Cesare masked
* Lucrezia watching Cesare taking a bath (inside or outside)
* Lucrezia telling Cesare how handsome he is, while stroking his facial features with her finger.
* Lucrezia asking Cesare to give her a child, so she'll always have him near (a bit silly, but one can only dream).
* And of course: a long romantic kiss and a steamy bedscene!!!
* Lucrezia getting drunk after Alfonso's murder and confessing her conflicting feelings to Cesare

* * *

#1 Lucrezia: "I've missed those hands." - Cesare: "And I've missed that face."
#2 Lucrezia: "And if my husband proves ungallant?" - Cesare: "I shall cut out his heart with a dinner knife and serve it to you."
#3 Cesare: "I beg you not to worry about it, sis. I will find a solution, I swear!"
#4 Lucrezia: "Don't you love God, Cesare?" - Cesare: "More than I love you?"
#5 Cesare lays Lucrezia on her bed and kisses her cheek at her wedding night.

Past Threads


PhoenixRising 09-08-2017 02:37 PM

Here's some old gifs I found. :love:


Okay, I'm gonna repost the last posts from the previous thread. :nod:


Originally Posted by LindaL100 (Post 91424536)
well those moments in the first 2 seasons are what I consider inappropriate flirtations, like I mentioned before...of course the siblings already had inappropriate feelings for each other since the beginning which is why they've always been inappropriately intimate. But it was only when they finally made love in S3 that their relationship became fully incestuous, like I said, the dynamic in their relationship only changed in S3 and became much more passionate and romantic. Although their relationship was already inappropriate from the start and they were very flirtatious with each other in the first 2 seasons, but it wasn't the same as in S3, they really took their incestuous relationship to a whole new level in S3, and that's what I meant. Even though I agree that Cesare and Lucrezia already had deep feelings for each other since S1, it was very obvious that they had a special and close emotional connection from the start, and those feelings merely deepened and evolved over time, eventually to the point of true love in S3...which is why I wasn't surprised that the siblings really crossed that line in S3, to me it was inevitable. But I still believe that Cesare still had his limitations regarding how far he was willing to go in their relationship, it makes sense if you consider his behavior the day after he and Lucrezia made love, he felt so guilty and regretful that it happened, and he initially didn't want to make love to Lu, he actually tried to stop Lu that night and telling her that it's wrong and they shouldn't do it, but it was Lu who eventually persuaded Cesare to go through with it. And of course that time in ep 3x02 when Lu was lying naked on her bed and wanted Cesare to touch her feet then pulled him onto her bed and tried to kiss him, like I said before, Cesare looked really uncomfortable in that scene...I think it was all just a bit too much for him, especially their love-making session on Lu's wedding night. Lu really became the more assertive one in their relationship in S3, she became a lot more rash and bold with her feelings and behavior towards Cesare in S3, she really seemed like she had no limitations at all when it came to expressing her love for Cesare, nothing really tops making love with your own brother, right? :D While Cesare became the more cautious one in the relationship most of the time in S3.

LindaL100 09-09-2017 04:37 AM

cool a new thread for Cesare & Lu :D thanks for creating this thread and the gifs Alex :)

BL.Arinna_1982 09-09-2017 01:30 PM

tftnt, Alex! :D

PhoenixRising 09-09-2017 06:11 PM

You're both welcome, Arinna and Linda! :wave: And Linda, since your birthday is coming up I'm gonna post to you in our birthday thread next week. :nod:

Oh, of course those were inappropriate flirtations. :lol: But I think those interactions also count as incestuous, even if there was no actual sexual intercourse. Brothers and sisters don't act like that normally, so even though they hadn't committed the physical act of incest, I think they had already committed incest in their hearts. :nod: But I get what you mean.

See, I don't get Cesare's behavior after Lucrezia became more aggressive regarding her attraction to him. He seemed to be on and off, at first accepting her advances, then pushing her away. And then "claiming" her in the finale like that. I was like, well, why didn't he do that earlier? :lol: What was it about taking down Forli and Alfonso dying that changed the equation?

And Cesare being hesitant when she lured him into her bed was kinda cute. :lol: Normally he's the aggressive one, with Ursula, and Charlotte, and whomever else he's with. I think Caterina was the only one who was as aggressive with him as Lucrezia was. :lol:

BL.Arinna_1982 09-10-2017 01:33 PM



BL.Arinna_1982 09-10-2017 01:34 PM



PhoenixRising 09-10-2017 05:13 PM

Awesome kissing gif, Arinna! :love: :thud:

BL.Arinna_1982 09-11-2017 02:01 PM

It's an amazing kiss! :P

LindaL100 09-12-2017 11:05 PM

I suppose you do have a point Alex about Cesare being on and off with his affections towards Lucrezia...even in S3 when the siblings took their incestuous relationship to a another level, there were times when Cesare made the first move and kissed her numerous times, and then there were times when he pushed away from's confusing...and it still doesn't explain why Cesare suddenly became so possessive of Lu in the end. Even though he was quite shifty with his behavior towards Lu, sometimes kissing her and sometimes showing restraint, but never before did he ever display that kind of possessiveness towards Lu until that very end, it was quite out of character for him.
But still, ever since the siblings consummated their love for each other in 3x03 (or even before that), Lu gradually became the more assertive one in their relationship most of the time. And as I mentioned before in the previous thread for Lu & Cesare, Lu seemed quite receptive to Cesare's sudden possessive if you consider her reaction when he 'claimed' her as his makes me wonder whether the siblings' relationship would've ended differently if they had made a S4. Yes I know that Jordan completely destroyed this couple in his disastrous book, but let's just disregard his book, because it's really not worth being treated as canon and most people don't regard his book as canon anyway. But hypothetically if they had made a S4, I think many of the events would've most likely happened very differently in S4 than it did in Jordan's book. What do you think?

BL.Arinna_1982 09-13-2017 01:49 PM

He became possessive over her, because I got tired of running away. :nod: Also, Lu told him that she got tired of her marriage to Alfonso. Then he started having plans for them.

PhoenixRising 09-14-2017 10:44 PM

I wish you had written season 4, Arinna. :lol:

Hi, Linda! :wave:

Yeah, I mean just look at the first three episodes. We go from Cesare telling Lucrezia "we are the unholy family" and kissing her right on the mouth while her eyes flutter and she seems like she's about to faint, to Lucrezia seducing Cesare in her bedroom while she's completely naked and Cesare acting like a nervous schoolboy. :lol: Kind of back and forth there, no? They did seem to switch places when it came to who was more aggressive.

Yeah, the possessiveness that Cesare had for Lucrezia seemed to be a combination of him finally accepting their desire for each other and deciding that he wasn't going to hold back any longer, as well as a need to keep her safe by keeping her close to him and not really trusting anyone who would be her suitor or husband any longer. And you're right, Lucrezia did get more assertive with all her sneaking into Cesare's bed when he was asleep and acting more like a lover than a sister. ;) As for where their relationship would've gone in a proper season 4 that didn't destroy them like Jordan intended, I think they would've continued their relationship long distance while she was in her loveless marriage to her third husband(also named Alfonso), the Duke of Ferrara. The history has her cheating on that guy all the time, so why not have her marry that Alfonso for his title and for political reasons but have Cesare as her lover? :nod:

And Cesare would still have Charlotte back in France as his wife and mother to his child, but still be romantically involved with Lucrezia whenever he was in Ferrara, which he would visit often. And when Cesare is finally captured and imprisoned, and then escapes, he attempts to return to Ferrara to get Lucrezia and take her and her children with him to France where they could plan their next move whilst living in polygamous bliss with his wife, Charlotte. :lmao: Hey, I saw a scene from another Borgia series where Cesare and Lucrezia had a threesome with Sancia, so it's possible. :P But before he can get to Lucrezia, he's ambushed and mortally wounded. And while he lies dying, his final thoughts are of Lucrezia and a montage of scenes of the two of them begins to play. And as this happens, we see Lucrezia reading Cesare's final letter to her which he sent just a few days earlier, and she begins to cry as Cesare dies while staring up into the sky, as if she can sense that he's dead.

BL.Arinna_1982 09-15-2017 02:25 PM

You always say that, Alex! :D

LindaL100 09-17-2017 07:52 AM


I suppose it makes sense that after everything that had happened, in the end Cesare was finally ready to fully commit to his feelings for Lucrezia and their relationship, I also think it's very likely that by the end Cesare was convinced that he was the only person who could truly protect Lu, because it's true that he didn't really trust anyone else towards the end of the series (especially Alfonso when it came to Lu's safety), except for Lu of course, she was the only person in the world whom Cesare fully and wholeheartedly trusted. So after thinking about the finale more, Cesare's possessiveness towards Lu in the end is starting to make more sense to me now :) And I definitely think that if Showtime had commissioned a S4, the events that would've transpired in S4 would've been very different to what was depicted in Jordan's book...especially regarding the siblings' incestuous relationship and Lu's character development. Jordan completely destroyed the integrity of Lu's character by having her poison both her father and Cesare in the book, ultimately murdering her own father and attempted to murder Cesare whom she's suppose to love very much. I think the production crew and the casts of the Showtime version probably would've strongly opposed of such nonsense to play out in S4, especially Francois and Holliday, I can just imagine them both arguing with Jordan over this, afterall they did argue with Jordan quite a few times about the incest during filming lol :D And I also think Jeremy Irons probably would've disapproved of such atrocious storyline too, he probably wouldn't have wanted his character Rodrigo to be killed by his own daughter. There's just so many problems and inconsistencies with Jordan's book that I think much of what was written in his book would've most likely been scrapped if they had made a S4.
And like I mentioned before, Lucrezia's reaction when Cesare became possessive of her in the end was quite positive...I mean, instead of pushing him away in disgust or ignoring him, Lu actually cocked her head like she approved of Cesare's sudden declaration of his possessive love for her, and she looked like she was enjoying the moment as Cesare affectionately buried his face in her chest as she lay on the bed. That kind of receptive response from Lu certainly suggests to me that the siblings would've had a much more positive and happier outcome in S4 compared to what happened to them in the book, this is further compounded by my belief that the casts probably would've opposed of the atrocious writing in Jordan's book. I agree I think the siblings would've most likely continued with their forbidden incestuous relationship secretly, even after Lu eventually marry Alfonso d'Este the Duke of Ferrara. As you mentioned, even in real-life, the real Lucrezia's marriage to Alfonso of Ferrara also seemed to be another loveless marriage because even despite her marriage to the Duke of Ferrara being by far her longest marriage lasting till her death and their marriage produced many children, but neither spouses were faithful to each other, they both had extramarital affairs while they were married to each other, especially Lu who had many lovers while she was married to Alfonso of Ferrara. So I think this issue probably would've been addressed in the potential S4...I don't know if Lu would've had other lovers during her future third marriage, but Cesare definitely would've been one of Lu's main lovers, if not her ONLY true lover during her 3rd marriage, I can definitely imagine that happening in the potential S4 :) I'm not 100% sure what the exact storylines and events that the writers would've explored in the potential S4, but the incestuous relationship between Ceasre & Lu definitely would've continued to be 1 of the most important storylines in S4, since their incestuous relationship became 1 of the most crucial and most popular plotlines in the entire series :D

BL.Arinna_1982 09-17-2017 12:10 PM

I want to share something with you, Linda. :) You know that Francois has a new show and he's paired with another actress there. I have to tell you, no sign of the chemistry he's had with Holy. :shrug: I have to say that they made Cesare and Lucrezia look so brilliant and romantic on screen.

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