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Old 04-29-2017, 02:58 PM
  #61
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Whoa, Gwen! I think you beat Alex on writing that long post! That's sweet!

There's a possible deleted CL scene in the last episode of the show. It's been shown in the promos then and even in some promo pics, but never aired on the show. And that news for a new release of the show came as a surprise to me too!
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Old 04-30-2017, 01:45 AM
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There are many great YouTube vids for C/L, but I recommend one that was made to 'A Historic Love' (a Tudors love theme) The video includes voiceovers of their talks about "forbidden love" and "France / Naples shared desires" and a blend of scenes to capture the destiny feel of their relationship so well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhoenixRising (View Post)
Hi, Gwen!

OMG that's long. Okay, I'll reply when I get home from work.
I don't blame you for waiting to reply because there's a lot to reply to.

But please do


Quote:
Whoa, Gwen! I think you beat Alex on writing that long post!
Life is nothing if not a challenge, Arinna!

untilwemeetagain's post was so detailed that I wanted to respond with the same effort and detail. It's not too difficult, because Cesare and Lucrezia's relationship has a LOT of different layers worth discussing. She addressed a lot of points about Season 3 that I had thought about myself
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Old 04-30-2017, 02:14 PM
  #63
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I think you answered really detailed. And yes, I've read your post.
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Old 04-30-2017, 05:12 PM
  #64
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Hi, Gwen! I'm gonna attempt to reply to some of your loooong post. First, I'm gonna reply to untilwemeetagain.

Quote:
I loved the first scene when she’s passionately talking about her son being a bastard as are they, and you know even though they are the children of the Pope, that still is in the back of their minds and a constant theme tossed in their direction throughout the seasons. It’s yet something else they share and no one else knows how that feels (minus the dead Juan), and he loves how passionate she is about having Giovanni recognized. The looks he gives her in that scene.

And he is so miserable when he can’t get that stupid Naples king to recognize Giovanni, and of course, he has to deal with Alfonso being “meek as a girl,” as he fights for Lucrezia’s son and ultimately her happiness. We see his frustration that he didn’t get what she wanted, and I knew Naples was in trouble at some point in the future because no one upsets his Lucrezia and doesn’t pay for it.
I'm glad you picked up on that, untilwemeetagain. There is symbolism is Lucrezia's son being a bastard child, just as she and Cesare were. It's one of the things that bind them together and give them a sense of belonging separate from their family. And yes, Cesare really does take it upon himself to be a father figure to Giovanni and look out for his well being as well as keeping him and Lucrezia from being separated. This was probably a major source of contention between him and Alfonso, the fact that his sister's husband wasn't willing to stand up for her own child. But Giovanni Sforza was proof that no one wrongs Cesare's sister/paramour and gets away with it.

Okay, now I'm gonna try and reply to some of your post, Gwen. :thud;

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Originally Posted by 4brathan&brucas (View Post)
I am totally okay with the Season 3 finale. I truly am.

Lucrezia is Cesare's, and he is hers.

THAT is my ideal ending, and that's the way it is staying.

Do you hear that, Neil Jordan?

Rumor has it that Lucrezia's son in reality could have been fathered by Cesare.

...Or her father. But for the love of all things, let's not go there.

And that sounds like a great fanfiction you've started

Anything has to be better than the utter that is formally known as The Borgia Apocalypse.

In a way I'm cool with the finale too, Gwen. If only because I knew what we'd have gotten if Jordan did his Apocalypse. I'm glad we were spared. But I think if we had gotten a final season it should've ended the way I described earlier, with Lucrezia married to a man in name only while being lovers with Cesare. And then in keeping with the history, Cesare is imprisoned, escapes, and then as he tries to reacquire his power and take revenge on della Rovere(who has now become Pope), he is killed in battle and his final thoughts are of Lucrezia, who reads his final letter to her with her children present. A montage of scenes of the two of them together would be nice as well.

Oh, don't even get me started on the idea of Rodrigo fathering her child. I much prefer Cesare to that scenario. And Cesare was the one who gave her son a title, and left his estate to the child as well... something a father would do.

Okay, that's as much as I can get through right now. There's a lot more to read. And Arinna's right, you did break my record for really long posts.
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Old 05-01-2017, 02:11 PM
  #65
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Now you have someone to compete with Alex. She can challenge you really well!

I wanted to ask you guys, did anyone watched some new CL vid soon?
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Old 05-01-2017, 02:13 PM
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Quote:
Oh, don't even get me started on the idea of Rodrigo fathering her child. I much prefer Cesare to that scenario. And Cesare was the one who gave her son a title, and left his estate to the child as well... something a father would do.
Join the club, Alex The idea of father/daughter incest, just... NO

There has to be a line drawn somewhere. I can deal with brother and sister sex in The Borgias, I can, because Francois and Holly ALWAYS played it with sizzling sexual tension that it was easy to forget that their characters were even related. Plus, the amount of times that C/L declared their UNDYING LOVE for each other... Come on, it was destined to happen. But... Rodrigo? Yeah, no thank you.


Quote:
Okay, that's as much as I can get through right now. There's a lot more to read. And Arinna's right, you did break my record for really long posts.
Looking forward to your other responses to my longggg post


Did any of you guys notice how this pic of C/L ~



is SO much like this one of Henry Tudor and Anne Boleyn ~



Because I think that was definitely on purpose, C/L being marketed by Showtime as passionate lovers in promo pics, just like they promoted Henry/Anne - even back when C/L weren't sleeping together.

The network sensed the mind-blowing chemistry, and definitely knew its audience.
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Old 05-02-2017, 02:21 PM
  #67
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And that was season 2 of The Borgias.
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Old 05-02-2017, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by BL.Arinna_1982 (View Post)
And that was season 2 of The Borgias.
It's kind of frustrating when a network panders to its audience with what they really want, but they have the actors continue to throw people off the scent by saying "it's probably not gonna happen."
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Old 05-02-2017, 05:42 PM
  #69
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Okay, I'm gonna try to answer more of your post, Gwen. And I'm also reposting untilwemeetagain's post so it doesn't get buried.

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I said this to Alex the other day - C/L remind me of Cathy and Heathcliff in so many ways Their bursts of passion mixed with their tragic forbidden affection and their siblings relationship and their dislike of other people, in general

Cesare and Lucrezia remind me of the great Gothic romances. Sexy yet doomed. I'm kind of a sucker for those type of relationships.

Yes, and he's in a fit of frustration, because he's finally had the guts to show Lucrezia his TRUE non-brotherly love for her, but it's all too late because she's due to be married, so he knows they're the epitome of bad timing, which sucks

Absolutely I think he just can't take it anymore, the pain of knowing that the woman he loves is marrying another man... Not a brute this time, but someone who would love her and take care of her, someone who isn't Cesare, and it KILLS him, and he doesn't believe Alfonso is truly worthy of her, so it's a huge explosion of feelings about wanting to be the man she marries... It's all so sad, really.
Yes, I remember you saying that, Gwen. I haven't read Wuthering Heights, but I have seen film adaptations. I guess they also kind of remind me of Chris and Cathy from Flowers In The Attic. I've been a sucker for those couples as well. Oh, and we have a "Guilty Pleasure" thread where you can talk about other couples you ship, if you want.

So you think Cesare was more frustrated when Lucrezia was marrying Alfonso instead of Giovanni Sforza? Well, Cesare definitely had ways of dealing with both men, didn't he? Neither of them were worthy of her in Cesare's eyes. And it is sad that Cesare probably would be Lucrezia's perfect spouse if they weren't already siblings.

Okay, now I'll re-post untilwemeetagain's post.

Spoiler:
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Old 05-03-2017, 03:08 PM
  #70
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Well, like she said "You will be my husband tonight!"
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Old 05-04-2017, 01:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhoenixRising (View Post)
Okay, I'm gonna try to answer more of your post, Gwen.
As you should!


Quote:
So you think Cesare was more frustrated when Lucrezia was marrying Alfonso instead of Giovanni Sforza? Well, Cesare definitely had ways of dealing with both men, didn't he?
I think it was a different kind of frusration.

Season 1 was an unconditional, yet possessive type of love that Cesare expressed for Lucrezia. The incest was still sub-text instead of literal. Therefore, when she married Giovanni, we saw Cesare be forced to deal with it but hide his pain.

With Alfonso, we definitely saw the green-eyed monster in Cesare emerge Sexual jealousy at its strongest!

Season 3 had the guts to finally explore the C/L incest, and therefore, Cesare was a lot less careful about revealing his true feelings for Lucrezia. In fact, many times in that season (particularly in Siblings and The Gunpowder Plot), Cesare more or less warned Alfonso that he will always be the loser where this love triangle is concerned. He's more emphatic about his love for Lucrezia in a much more erotic way -

Seriously, how did Rodrigo not sense the romantic tension between C/L?


Quote:
Neither of them were worthy of her in Cesare's eyes.
That's because he was the only one worthy of her and the only one she really loved

"Only a Borgia can truly love a Borgia"
"I shall never love a husband as I love you, Cesare"
"If I married a thousand times, it would never be to the right man"
"The only thing that never tires me is you"


Lucrezias's words, not mine.




Quote:
And it is sad that Cesare probably would be Lucrezia's perfect spouse if they weren't already siblings.
As Arinna just said, Lucrezia saw Cesare as her true husband.

Plus, let's be brutally honest here ~ Cesare's the only one in that marriage who brought her to orgasm.



And unlike Alfonso, Cesare didn't need to get drunk to have sex with her.

"God is in the room with us.... One touch of your hand, and God comes rushing back"



Even Rodrigo picked up on it: "there she is, the blushing bride" ... Oh boy, that scene... You know, for a moment, I thought they were going to have Rodrigo sense the sexual tension between Cesare and Lucrezia.

AWKWARD MORNING-AFTER TENSION!
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Old 05-04-2017, 12:55 PM
  #72
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Hi, Gwen! OMG, you posted another big essay! I still haven't replied to all of your previous comment!

Okay, I'm gonna reply to you a bit later after Arinna and I are done our watch. I still have a lot to reply to.
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Old 05-04-2017, 02:00 PM
  #73
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She also said that "I'll never love a husband as I love you, Cesare!"
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Old 05-06-2017, 05:36 AM
  #74
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OMG, did I forget to post here?

I apologize, Gwen. Let me reply to you when I get home from work.
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Old 05-06-2017, 02:06 PM
  #75
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You can do it now, when you're ready.
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