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Fan Forum Legend
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Cesare & Lucrezia #36: "I will make you happy, I promise." - Cesare to Lucrezia
Welcome to the 36th Cesare ღ Lucrezia Appreciation Thread If you are a fan and not yet on the list, let us know and you'll be added immediately.
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Credit: May ~Quotes~ Lucrezia: "Don't hate me." Cesare: "I regret many feelings towards you, hate is not one of them." Cesare: "The whole world whispers, you and I are lovers. Should we prove them right?" Lucrezia: "I want to die, brother." Cesare: "Will you not talk like that, please!" Cesare: "Can I hold him?" Lucrezia: "And wake him? That would be cruelty indeed." Cesare: "I must hold you then." Lucrezia: "But we never before had secrets between us." Cesare: "Some things are better left unsaid." Lucrezia: "So I must divine then, the dark cloud on my brother's soul." Cesare: "You are criminally well informed, sis. But I trust your soul is still of the purest white." Lucrezia: "You will be a handsome Cardinal. Let me hug you!" Cesare: "Lucrezia, sister, share my fortune and my fate. And remember that wherever I may be, a part of me will always be yours." Lucrezia: "As I also belong to you, brother." Lucrezia: "No one here loves me as I was loved by you. I've tried everything, Cesare. No one wants to hear our name." Lucrezia: "My soul dies when I imagine never seeing you again." Cesare: "Lucrezia, Lucia, forgive me. All will be well if you forgive me. But you must live, sweet sister, live. We are one blood, one heart, one spirit." Lucrezia: "Cesare, love me!" Cesare: "For all eternity. Cesare: "Cesare Borgia and Lucrezia, we shall be remembered. Be faithful only to me not to him, the unholy father who prays to a nameless god. You shall have the world, not the hereafter. And your name eternal." Lucrezia: "I shall be duchess of Ferrarra, it's enough for me." Cesare: "In name but nothing more." Lucrezia: "In name and nothing more." Cesare: "I promised you a heart, sister." Lucrezia: "Whose? Your own?" Lucrezia: "What does it say of us, brother, that you promise me this and I would accept?" Lucrezia: "Cesare? I would ask you something.” Cesare: “Then ask and it is yours.” Lucrezia: “I would ask you to marry me.” Cesare: “As you wish. My word is my word. We shall run away. Change our names, perhaps. Live out our days in some small fishing village by the coast. where no one will ever guess who we once were.” Lucrezia: "To Alfonso." Cesare: "Yes, yes, I know." Cesare: "My love for my sister outweighs my grief for my brother." Cesare: "Are you a shepherd of souls now? Lucrezia: "And I see before me a lost sheep." Cesare: "Utterly lost, my love." Lucrezia: "Then, by hook or by crook I shall save you. You may kiss my ring!" Cesare: "Don't I know how to organize a party for my sister?" Lucrezia: "Thank you, Cesare!" Cesare: "And I think I've done well. Look. I'm the one who chose the guests." Lucrezia: "They're all courtesans." Cesare: "Did you desire monks and nuns?" Lucrezia: "Oh, no! No formalities!" Lucrezia: "So then, I shall become a nun. For I shall never love a husband as I love you, Cesare."
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Past Threads {01}{02}{03}{04}{05}{06}{7}{8}{9}{10}{11}{12}{13}{14}{15}{16}{17}{18}{19}{20}{21}{22}{23}{24}{25}{26}{27}{28}{29}{30}{31}{32}{33}{34}{35} Credit __________________
In Loving Memory of Christine Dettloff(cheekymonkey503). Rest In Peace, Dear Cheekymonkey. ~ Alex |
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Fan Forum Legend
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You're welcome, Christine. Thanks for the title idea.
Okay, everyone. We will have no more of these senseless arguments about whether or not Cesare and Lucrezia are motivated by love or ambition if we cannot discuss these topics respectfully. Arinna and I are the moderators on this board, which means if there are any issues or disagreements between posters, Arinna and I do the moderating and no one else. If anyone has any problems or issues with other posters you PM me or Arinna about it and we will handle the issue and moderate, as is our jobs. You must show restraint regarding typing in caps and making comments that may be too forceful(remember, I said "show restraint," which does not mean that speech and dialogue are disallowed) and try not to make comments that could seem disrespectful or accusatory. It is our job - Arinna and I - to moderate this board. These issues and disagreements must not become personal and must not be posted openly on the board. It is the policy of FF that if you do have disagreements or believe that you are being treated unfairly that you take these issues up with me and Arinna as your moderators. Then we will take the best course of action to resolve the issue fairly, so as no one takes offense or misinterprets anyone's words. We now have posters saying that they want to leave the board because they no longer find this an hospitable atmosphere to post, which is the opposite of the atmosphere that Arinna and I wanted to promote here. We wanted The Borgias board to be different from other boards in that everyone could feel comfortable posting their views and opinions without excessive moderator interference making posters uncomfortable, while at the same time insuring that dialogue on the board remain friendly and that any disputes or disagreements are resolved with the upmost care and respect for the posters' feelings. We are a board that must remain as united as ever in light of our campaign to have our beloved show return for at least one final television movie broadcast if not a fourth season, and we must not be divided and fighting amongst each other when we should be fighting Showtime. As for Cesare and Lucrezia being ruled by romance or ambition, remember that they are semi-fictional characters which are not entirely accurate to their historical counterparts. Their motivations are entirely in the hands of the writers, which is why their behavior can sometimes seem ambiguous or contradictory. This is of course, what makes them so fascinating to watch, as they are hardly one-dimensional characters. But they are also complex characters, and Neil Jordan obviously wanted them to spark conversation as well as fandom. So can we please keep such conversation from dividing us and making anyone feel uncomfortable or even mistreated? And I am including everyone on the board in this statement. I will not take anyone's side or say one person is more in the right than another because it is my job to maintain people's right to express their own opinions as long as they stay within the boundaries of respectful behavior and FF rules. Remember, please come to me or Arinna about any disagreements or issues, and do not try to resolve the issues amongst yourselves. This is not because I believe you are incapable of resolving issues between yourselves, it just means that Arinna and I want to follow fanforum rules. Such issues should be handled in PMs with me or Arinna, and not on the open thread. As I've said countless times, it is very easy for people to misunderstand each other or take things the wrong way online because we cannot see each other's expressions or hear each other's voices. Internet can seem very impersonal at times, and misunderstandings can happen sometimes. So please maintain civility while still feeling free to post your opinions, as long as they are done in a way that is respectful to everyone. And I do mean everyone. Arinna and I are here to moderate and help in any way possible, so please come to us first before attempting to take things on the threads. I do apologize that I haven't been on as much as I should, given my vacation at Comic-Con. I promise that upon my return I will continue my duties and make this board friendly and open to everyone as well as everyone's opinions. I do not want to lose any more posters on this board. We have lost far too much already. I hope I can do my job to the best of my ability to do right by all of you. This is the Cesare/Lucrezia thread. Let's not make this thread a place of discord. We are lucky in that we have no shipper wars on this board - no rivals for either Cesare or Lucrezia's affections. I felt we were lucky for that, because I've seen what that kind of friction can cause on other boards. But ironically, we just had to find something to have disagreements about, didn't we? And this is about whether or not C/L place each other in priority or their ambition. And most of this was started simply by a conversation about the 'Banquet Of Chestnuts' episode, and whether or not Cesare put family ambition ahead of love for Lucrezia when he agreed to King Ferdinand's demand for Lucrezia and Alfonso's "open consummation." Can we please just understand that the writers are the ones who ultimately decide this, and we simply look through a glass darkly? There are cases to be made for both points of view. Let's not make them become personal and respect each others points of view, okay? And if anyone was in any way offended by my statement or took anything the wrong way, or misunderstood me, please PM me and let me know. I do apologize, as typing is not quite as efficient as speaking in these matters. Let's keep the board the friendly place we intended it to be. Please? __________________
In Loving Memory of Christine Dettloff(cheekymonkey503). Rest In Peace, Dear Cheekymonkey. ~ Alex |
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As a poster, I read and understood. Thanks saying this, Alex. I think we're on the same side here, CL side. We are all shippers and we should all be friends because of it.
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Last edited by BL.Arinna_1982; 07-19-2013 at 11:31 PM |
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Ultimate Fan
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 8,054
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I think things got out of hand and am glad you addressed them so well Alex. My respect for you and Arinna as mods is boundless I really hope this thread can calm down and people can feel free to post without disagreements again. Got very out of hand from one comment about the consummation scene
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"This is no Chronicle of Saints. Nor yet is it a History of Devils." -
The Life of Cesare Borgia by Sabatini. |
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Thank you, Trina. I'm just trying to do right by everyone on this board and keep this place a real home for Borgias fans.
And I promise I'll be back from ComicCon soon and be posting more. __________________
In Loving Memory of Christine Dettloff(cheekymonkey503). Rest In Peace, Dear Cheekymonkey. ~ Alex |
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We're all count on that, Alex. Too bad you're having bad reception there. Also, I'll be around the whole day today, guys. So if there's something, pls PM me any time and I'll try to answer asap.
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Part-Time Fan
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 307
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I only want to say this on yesterdays post of mine:
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This is exactly how I use caps, with no personal note to anyone.Also, of course I think very thoroughly other people comments, as I wish you all do with my comments.. Bec that would meant that you find them interesting at the least.. If we don’t do that..then what’s the purpose of expressing our thoughts, wanting to discuss them? Quote:
I just want to say I am happy that this matter solved, and we are all here. Quote:
His ambition was this Ces, back then is still under Rod influense, power, and shadow. He has nothing on his own yet. No papal army, not his own army. He still PLANS to find a way to get an army, and have his own way. That is whay he goes to France. But he didn't go there yet. He doesn't know if he will succeed in France. So, at this point, Naples is not the enemy for Ces, not untill some time later. Naples is still an ally, an ally, Rome and Pope, NEEDS, that IS WHY THEY MARRIED Lu.Naples, at this point is a crucial ally, with more power thatn Rome, in some point. That is why the Pope, NEEDS Naples. They NEED Naples and France at this point. When, some time after, Ces will GET FRANCE, AND AN ARMY, HE HAS NO USE FOR Naples. Then and only then. But as I saw in the post, you said it yourself dear, so… Quote:
Political reason, exactly! Yes, as I said, If he had to CHOOSE between his ambition and Lu, he will choose Lu. What he will not do, is to just give up his ambitions, without any reason. Thus he will MAKE SURE that HIS ENEMIES CANNOT REACH, TOUCH, AND HARM HIS ONLY WEAKNESS.. ("My one weakness…the one chink in my armor - is you.") NEVER AGAIN (3X09). He will take caution, and messures, to pretect his Lu from any harm…and thus, making his plans, without worrying about her.. too much!! Bec he always will worry, we know that! Quote:
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Kim and Natalie I believe IS BOTH! She is petulan bec he was pulling away, and also bec, while she was making his a love declair..he said he must go! She is a woman in love. She was ungry bec Ces has his mind in his war. But Yes Kim, that ‘unger” last very short…Bec she is a Borgia, and understands the importance of the family to PREVAIL if they want to be safe, as Kathryn , spotted very well Quote:
She didn't succeed. Bec, She maybe NEEDED a husband weak, that she could control him, after Sforza, BUT that's NOT THE kind of man She WANTED. The kind of man who COULD APPEAL TO HER HEART, HER LOVE. She wants someone who lusts for power, and ruling. She wants a man powerfull, WHO AT THE SAME TIME, IS WEAK IN HER LOVING HANDS, BUT POWERFULL NEVERTHELESS.SHE WANTS CESARE. Quote:
Kathryn,I probably didn’t express my thoughts well… this wasn’t what I meant dear, when I said that he did that for her sake also: He was the responsible for their marriage not to consummated, so he desided to be the responsible for their consummation also..Although this hurt him very bad, it was, I think, a way to tell her, “find happiness with him, consummate the marriage, i meant that he wanted Lu and Alf to AT LEAST TRY to have a happy marriage, to give them a chance, so he wanted the marriage to consummate..(3x04 go love your husband) even this, WAS KILLING HIM INSIDE. So, I don’t think either that he thought the possibility to witness it, not in a million! He is a man in love, he has limits! Is another thing to say to Lu “go love your husband” and a completely different thing to WITNESS IT! Thus, the wonderful scene, where his WEEPING when he realizes that his “punishment’ for not stoping it, was to be there, with them..(LOVE THIS SCENE..) But in the end, HE didn’t bear it. In the end, on that dark room, seeing the woman he loves making love to another, his love came on the surface once more, and he take the matter into his hands. HE made love with Lu, he made her orgasm, HE MARKED HER. He made her his, only with his eyes. He wasn’t able to “give her to another man”. Quote:
The true love, is no peace … At least, for me! Quote:
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This is one of the cases that Hurt eachother, even if they love each other!! As Ces hurt Lu in 3x04, when didn’t stop the consummation. As he did when in the same ep, she begged him to came back, and he said to her to find happiness, and pul his hand of hers, and went to France. As he continue to do (bec he thought this was the best for her!) when he keep dismissing her love, up until 3x10. As Lu hurt Ces, when he talk to him about Paolo. As Ces DESPITE the fact that was suffering, from loving her, ARRANGED her to meet him. She Did the same when he told him in 2x10 that she wants to marry Al, and to love him.. (with such despair in his voice..They both know..It is impossible..”Do you love him sis?”) as Kim also said Quote:
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Perfect soul mates..Lu is Ces 'counterpart' she wants POWER also Magnanimous in love…in ambition…in wits. ONLY A BORGIA CAN LOVE A BORGIA afterall... Quote:
Finally...the most AMBIGUOYS part for me in all series... DOES Rod REALIZES what happens between siblings?? Please, tell me your opinion...I think that 'subconciously" have suspicions, but, he cannot except that in concious...Bec, although Rod has TERRIBLE FLAWS...I think he is a true believer in some point, believes in God, and that he is his "messenger" in earth...so, for him, the siblings relationship, is unthinkable, and chooses to "turn a blind eye"to the truth... JUST LIKE HE DID WITH THE RIVAL AND HATE BETWEEN JUAN AND CESARE.... Last edited by Fay the Greek; 07-20-2013 at 02:36 AM |
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Dedicated Fan
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 644
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About Rod being aware about what`s going on between Ces and Lu; Kim and I just talked about that yesterday in the old thread. Here is what was said. What do you think? Quote: Kim: Kathrin, I also think the conversation where Rodrigo talks about Lucrezia being married to Naples and Cesare to France and that they are two states, one destined to desire the other and be thwarted is also really interesting. Obviously, he is talking about more than two states, but it's telling that their relationship is discussed in terms of political wording and strategy. Kathrin: He seems to be talking about more than two states, and I have been wondering all along if Rod suspects something, but other than this scene there has never been any indication. Ces certainly looked awfully shocked there for a nanosecond. It is entirely possible for Rod to use the two states as a metaphor to warn Ces off, especially given the turn the conversation then takes with 'and while you are there...find yourself a bride'. But do you think Rod would let him get off the hook so easily? Kim: It does seem that he is aware that they are too close. There is also that bit when they are talking about Lu having to go through with the public consummation. For just a second, he looks at Cesare just a little too pointedly. I think Rodrigo is a pretty lascivious character and one that is starting to become a bit unsure of his son and the future of the Borgia Dynasty. I'm not sure how far he would actually push it with Cesare. Last edited by Kadre; 07-20-2013 at 08:44 AM |
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I'm also glad that everything is solved.
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Dedicated Fan
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 958
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Alex and Arinna you do a fabulous job! <3
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Master Fan
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 19,839
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TFTNT and THANK YOU Alex
Source: http://shisoueimin.tumblr.com/post/55483459023/y-s As stupid as it might sound, this gives me happiness. It might be retarded to get happy with a fictional couple, but it's actually what happens to me with C/L and mostly when I watch other TV shows that don't quite know how to handle the relationships and keeps bringing more and more drama to the table and cheating and whatnot.. they sometimes break the greatness of that ship by over exploring them and adding too much drama to the table. I think C/L did great during all seasons and in a way it helped that The Borgias didn't last 10 seasons like some shows do, because it just wouldn't have been the same. Even with the great writing from Neil and Guy, I don't think it would have been possible to keep this relationship as cleverly written as it was with the 3 seasons we had. So well written that I don't think anyone who appreciates the show even with it being very inaccurate, could hate it. I know some people get grossed out with the fact that is incest, tho fictional still incest. But I don't think there's any doubt of how much love there is... and with everyone thinking differently about them as individuals, I think most of us can still agree that the relationship was even tho "sinful" one of the nicest things we've ever seen on TV. Last edited by DGSAFDMD; 07-20-2013 at 09:11 PM |
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It's actually amazing how the most romantic ship I've ever shipped is an incest ship and it's actually Cesare/Lucrezia ship. I mean, just think who they were and for what they were famous for. But I love how NJ represented them in his show.
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Dedicated Fan
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 644
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Loyal Fan
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,283
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aut Caesar aut nihil
Here lies in a little earth he who everyone feared, he who held peace and war in his hand. |
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