deathly_smirk

Can I be added?

I'm suffering from withdrawal symptoms at the moment

BL.Arinna_1982

Added you and aw. We'll do watches this summer.. You can feel free to join in.

deathly_smirk

Thnx

I will defo join in, this season has been mind-blowing

BL.Arinna_1982

Yes, we've got some good scenes. But I always want more.

deathly_smirk

The C/L shipper always does

But their scenes were so breathtaking.. esp in the finale

BL.Arinna_1982

My favorite scenes of them.

Nikki K

I thought it was incredibly depressing when she said "to Alfonso" and he was way too quick answering "I knew that" probably realising that he actually meant it at least on some level and she didn't at all - and then the rest of the episode he was just really aggressive and in a very bad mood.

ring of fire

I agree. I think Cesare thought it could be real for a second but then Lucrezia said "to Alfonso" and he looked disappointed.

I saw Los Borgias yesterday and I'm planning on making some CL gifs. That movie has a lot of sweet moments. My favorite moment was when Lucrezia gives him the helmet and Cesare gives her the feather so each one has a part of the other.

Nikki K

Right? He looked distraught and had to turn away from her and go because he just didn't want to let his disappointment show at least that's what I thought. Not that he didn't know that it was unrealistic but like you said, for a moment he perhaps thought it could be real.

Oh, that's excellent! How did you like the movie? I cried so much at the end. Especially when we saw her lying in bed writing that letter, telling him that she tries to help him return and that her sister-in-law sometimes seems to show affection to her - which is something that we know historically, if she did, was just deceitful because she hated Lucrezia. So yeah, that and then how he basically didn't want to live anymore - at least that's how I saw it - knowing he couldn't return home to his sister, there was nothing to live for and if he had to die then he could only do it the one way he knew how - going down fighting. And he held the feather he gave her in his hand. Gosh, I cried so hard. It's kind of ridiculous.

I'm really looking forward to you making some graphics!

Stelena&Bamon

I've been seeing episodes of 'Borgia' it's very different from 'The Borgias' both Cesare and Lucrezia are extremely different. It's tooo sexified! bleh! even though that's not a word Even this show I have to forward some stuff
Cesare is more torn about his battle between 'demon and archangel' as he calls it and whips himself for all his wrongs
Juan is more ambitious
Lucrezia is quite bratty and inconsiderate
And they all call Roderigo 'uncle'

I, of course prefer our C/L they are intimate and really loving.

It's just interesting

ring of fire

Keep watching There's so nice CL stuff later.

What did you forward? I still wish I hadn't seen the Rodrigo/Giulia sex scenes


I loved the end. It was so sad. I felt so bad for Cesare that noone wanted to help him and only Lucrezia cared about him. Also Lucrezia ended up having such a sad life. And the feather thing was so heartbreaking

deathly_smirk

I thought Alfonso looked a little distraught watching them dance too. L seemed to have her claws in everyone

Nikki K

I prefer C/L in this version but as a standalone I think Lucrezia on "Borgia" has more depth and the actress a lot more emotions and talent to draw from in her acting. She did start out as a teenager, unsure and bratty - obviously because she didn't know where she fit in with her father pretending to be her uncle but then developed more and more helping Maria Enriquez escape, her constant inner struggle between faith and lust, I appreciated that very much. What I like most about Borgia is that it gives us another brother/sister relationship which we can contrast with CL on the Borgias, namely Giulia/Alessandro. I have so much love for these too.

Otherwise both shows are flawed. You said that very nicely with judging Juan to be more ambitious - to a degree you are totally right, he wants to be somebody and please his father even harder than our Juan but then the guy is a completely psychopath in my personal opinion and I'm not sure if it's true but I read that Stanley Weber mostly did comedy before this (he'll be in one with Karen freaking Gillan soon - I'm so excited it's Karen Gillan after all!!!) so I felt the dramatic genre probably didn't come as easy to him as for David who did a fabulous job which i attribute to his schooling as well as to his stage experience.

I found Cesare annoying for most of the time - it was the way he was written not a fault of Mark's portrayal in my opinion. I was glad for the last scene, how historically inaccurate it was that he finally seemed to liberate himself - no more whining and whipping. Thank heavens. To be honest that was something I had a hard time with on the second season with François' version - he may not whipped himself or blamed God all that much but there was still a fair amount of "poor little me". I hope that will stop now.

I'm not fazed by sex although I found it icky to see John Doman naked, same goes for Jeremy Irons... I know it's mean and old people are allowed to have a sexuality too but still - nothing I needed to see. What I thought was worse on Borgia to be honest were all those depictions of violence. I felt after the first time - okay Fontana, you made your point, this is still the medieval ages evolving into enlightenment - now can we please stop with all the blood and gore and public excecutions and stuff it's so revolting. I had to tell my mum several times to cover her eyes with a pillow. So in short - nudity, I don't mind (didn't apply once to be playmate for nothing ) but violence is another matter.

I agree with you that it is interesting - I don't think the shows compete as David Oakes has put so eloquently once if anything they round up your view on the subject.

I will also give you this - it took me watching it two times until I saw the subtle but thoughtful changes in Lucrezia's character and appreciate Giulia fully. Perhaps if you want to we can discuss this in the thread we have to compare the shows. That'd be need.

Bottom line - at least in season 1 I very much prefered The Borgias because NJ managed to make us care about the characters more but I felt that season 2 was incredibly disjunct and I was often disappointed. In both cases I think the casting department did a great job -- although to be really honest, I got used to all the accents on Borgia really quickly and didn't even recognise them after three episodes or so with the exception of John Doman who still confused and unnerved me with his broad American accent that screamed "I'm from Baltimore" or something.

To a degree I wish we could have have a mixture of both shows - like get back to the great characterisation of The Borgias and the intimate relationships between the characters we saw on season 1 but then bring in some more historical accuracy from Borgia (although they made up some **** too) to get a better background and I would gladly transplante Giluia and Alessandro on The Borgias. I think then I'd have my perfect show - especailly if they intensified CL even more. François' and Holly's chemistry shouldn't go to waste. Just my thoughts on it. As I said, perhaps we can discuss more later at the other thread? Would be lovely.

To add one thing though - if I sometimes seem a bit touchy on the subject it's because I knew there was a lot of interest to watch the show and it wasn't so easy for a long time to get a hold of the English version and me and a merciful soul on this board went to great lenghts to provide people with the opportunity to watch. So while I think it is absolutely legit to state your likes and dislikes, I am feeling a bit touchy when people just write "it's ****, I hate it". Again technicaly these people's opinions but it makes me sad when there is so little reflection. If that makes sense. I'm just saying. I hope this year it'll be less of a hassle and who knows what Fontana will do, we'll see and I hope we can talk about it here!

Nelly - gosh yes. I am not a prude but John Doman naked and kissing with tongue... *shudders* I wish I could peel that from my mind. And I agree with Nelly, keep watching - things will develop.

I think Lucrezia in later life seemed to distract herself a lot - competing with Isabella D'Este, her sister-in-law, in terms of being patrons of the art, accepting a lot of courtly love and letter writing, then the alleged affair with her brother-in-law which after reading Kate Simon's book on the Gonzaga's I'm not all that convinced about. Then all the miscarriages. I felt that she tried to make up for her bad image but her heart... I'm not sure how much it was in it. I know she was distraught when Joffre died, not so much at Vanozza's death - perhaps because historically mother and daughter didn't have much contact. I know that she exchanged letters with her older half-sister Isabella (at least "Borgia" mentioned Rodrigo's other children). But yes, it didn't seem like she had a lot of real confidents perhaps with the exception of her cousin Angela Borgia - with Cesare dead and Sancia dead without them being able to make up. Also Giulia went so quickly back to being a Orsini so she could stay in Della Rovere's good graces and marry her daughter Laura to one of his nephews probably scared of any repercussions now that Rodrigo's enemy had the power. I don't know.

Haha, no kidding.

/looooong reply

BL.Arinna_1982

I've had to fast-forward lots of things in Borgias as well. I don't know why I found it a bit boring at places. Juan is too shallow there, my opinion. I liked David's Juan more.

Also - Francois is my Cesare, no arguing of that. Just wish they make him stronger character the next season. Also, I'd love his chemistry with Holiday Grainger is not wasted as much as they did waste it this season, although we've got a kiss.

britnik

I have the 'Borgia' box set, had to order it from Germany mind you. I liked season 1 a lot especially the end although the C/L thing came a little out of nowhere for me.