Nikki K

I haven't read the whole book yet, so I don't know if that is in there. I do consider Machiavelli's perception of Cesare quite wrong though. Like with other contemporaries he adored, he was blind to their flaws. In essence Cesare couldn't have united anything without the backing of his father. I think it was Sabatini who assessed things correctly: Cesare was more interested in conquest than in governing. Naturally it all fell apart after Rodrigo's death. The thing is - at least from everything I read, this is my perception: Rodrigo wanted to bring back all those rogue little nobles or better said their towns in the Romagna, Umbria and the Marche back under the control of the church. After all they were rightful papal fiefdoms. However, Rodrigo's weakness had always been his family, so he basically gave away big chunks to Cesare. Now after Cesare was banished Della Rovere basically did the same thing Cesare did but the difference is, he didn't like his family very much, apart from two nephews (one of which a Cardinal that died quickly, the other Francesco Maria - who was engaged to Angela Borgia for a time - he made commander of the papal armies) and his daughter. So I found that mainly his conquering and retrieving fiefdoms was similarly motivated, however, he wanted the glory for himself (and the church or so he claimed) and not necessarily establish a dynasty. Perhaps there was a bit of vanity in it that he didn't want to see any of his relatives become more powerful - albeit secularly - than him. He gave Felice quite some money though, so she could buy lands and he gave Francesco Maria Urbino and Pesaro, and had promised him Ferrarra if they had been successful in their war against Alfonso D'Este (or the French really). So all in all, ironically Della Rovere succeeded in continuing Rodrigo's politics although in the guise of doing it for the church.


Source: the god of misunderstood pain


Source: i'm ****ing with you cutie q

Oh and here are other quotes for our list -

Cesare: I promised you a heart, sister.
Lucrezia: Whose? Your own?

Lucrezia: What does it say of us, brother, that you promise me this and I would accept?

BL.Arinna_1982

source:here comes a regular...

Nikki K

I saw that earlier. Pretty!



Source: The Dark Crow Smiles

And I must say out of all the art that was made with that one scene, I do love the colouring in this one the most so far:


Source: god and borgia

BL.Arinna_1982

And I love the kiss!

Nikki K

I love britnik's icon of it.

They do look like a married couple with the nanny and the baby in the background. But we said that before. Still lovely though:


Source: By hook or by crook


Source: http://****yeahcesareborgia.tumblr.com/



Source: on our weakness it will feed...

BL.Arinna_1982

They look like they were about to kiss there.

PhoenixRising

That was an excellent assessment, Nikki K. Della Rovere ironically became known for the same warlike tendencies that Roderido was known for, but not quite for being the diplomat that Roderigo was.

Ohhh, I love the Cesare/Lucrezia artwork! I didn't know they were depicted in a 1981 BBC miniseries! : So you see, their relationship was shown on TV even back then! So what is Neil Jordan waiting for? Francois and Holliday have way too much chemistry to waste having Lucrezia hook up with all these losers all the time.

BL.Arinna_1982

My words exactly, Alex.

Let's hope CL does happen the next year.

Nikki K

Alex - I think Della Rovere had a temper but he would calm down just as quickly again and was not particularly sneaky - from everything I read. Which is why I'm so annoyed by how the show is treating his character. One more interesting thing I picked up when I read his biography by the way - his problem wasn't initially with Rodrigo, it was that he deeply despised and mistrusted Ascanio Sforza.

I know, right? I fear though NJ will be teasing us till the cows come home because we are politically correct in the U.S of A. and cannot possibly show incest in the real world (GoT is different because fantasy)... or something something. I'm trying to hold out hope though.

BL.Arinna_1982

source: your hair always smells like lavender.

Let's hope we'll get our CL moment the next season.

And I have to go now - bed time here. Good night!

Nikki K

More than a moment... would be nice. In the meantime, I hope that there will be fanfiction to soothe me.

BL.Arinna_1982

We can start with a moment and make it longer than that.

Bronson

Wonderful thread and I agree in regards to pairing Lucretia with losers. She deserves better. I love the closeness of Cesare and Lucretia and hope to see more of it.

Love the quotes mentoned by Nikki K. They were great.

Please add me to your list.

Nikki K

Expansion plans approved!


Source: god and borgia

ring of fire

Welcome to the thread Bronson!


Fantasy/Sci-Fi shows can usually get away with a lot of things. Still it shouldn't be such a big deal to show incest in a channel like showtime. Their other tv shows deal with controversial subjects too.

I have high hopes that CL relationship will continue in Borgia. European shows aren't afraid to show anything. I learned that by watching Skins and Misfits