Is it a music group? The only m/m ship I ever had was Sark/Vaughn on Alias.

Yes, BTS is a Korean pop boy band. :nod: Only don't compare them to New Kids On The Block, Backstreet Boys, or N'SYNC, because Arinna hates that. :lol:


Aw, thanks Lila. :hug: I'm glad to know that you've read past posts because that helps a lot. :lol: I don't have to explain as much FF stuff to you. And I'm like you, I can change my mind about things as information comes out. :nod: But usually I'm a "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" type of guy. :)


It's okay, Nina. :) I totally know what you mean. :hug: I know you're not testy. I could talk about other aspects of The Borgias that disappointed me, but it's over and done with now, I suppose. But you're right about being able to enjoy things on a more historical level. :nod: I just wish everything else could work as well.

Well, aside from Michaela and Zeke, there's no new ships for me to enjoy lately. I'm counting my blessings with Zechaela. :lol: Yes, I gave them a portmanteau, God help me. :rolleyes: As for Riverdale, I totally agree with everything you said. Yes, Betty and Veronica are supposed to be a dynamic duo, just like Archie and Jughead. But the show has not only veered away from developing the Varchie and Bughead couples, they've also veered away from the friendships between the characters as well. :shrug: Again, I question the logic of the writing on Riverdale, not to mention every other CW show. I know who these people are, and I have to say that I really get annoyed by writers today because they're writing from a more ideologically compromised position than writers of the past, and nowhere more blatantly than their failure to develop Falice. I know this is a youth oriented show, but can you at least give Falice more than what you've given them? Yes, all of these subplots involving programming, the FBI, chic, Hiram and Veronica's sister, Jughead's new club, Betty's psychological issues, Archie's boxing stuff and running a recreation center... what does any of this have to do with Riverdale? The writers had a great concept in an Archie Comics meets Twin Peaks kind of thing, but unlike Bates Motel(which also copied Twin Peaks) they just haven't been able to sustain it. :shrug: I'm surprised they got renewed for a fifth season, but then this is the CW. They'll renew anything.

Doomsday killed Jimmy? Damn, that's harsh.

Heh, hasn't crossed my mind. I must say I've never really bean into boybands... like there was a time after I was young when Take That was huge. ;)

I think the one thing we probably ALL agree on is that we are really glad that NJ didn't get to make that stupid movie he planned with Rodrigo ending up in hell or something. That would have killed me.

Yeah it's like... I enjoy the little Falice moments, I thought it was great that they brought Mary back and her scenes with Archie... but in terms of plotlines... crikey there wass nothing. The only slightly amusing thing was when Cheryl realised that Penelope was trying to gaslight her. Everything else this season was just stupid and I just couldn't. Who are these people that I loved in season 1?

I actually like the new Nancy Drew. It's like a mix between Veronica Mars and Chilling Adventures of Sabrina. There is nothing to ship though but actually that's fine by me because at this point I'm mistrustful of The CW that they would only screw it up. So I rather let them have a good compelling story than too much romantic entanglement.

Yeah, Doomsday impaled Jimmy with one of his spikes but then they were at a construction site and Jimmy side stepped and gave him a kick with his dying well... breath I guess as he broke down and Doomsday stumbled and fell into a bed of very spikey nails so Clark could pick him up and get him to some reactor and vaporize him. Good times! But I was sad for Jimmy. I would have shipped him with Lucy Lane.

Was Take That a British boy band? :lol: The first boy band I remember was New Kids On The Block back when I was 18. New Edition came out before them, but I was never really into them.

Yes, we can all agree that Jordan's Apocalypse was atrocious. And Rodrigo in Hell was just stupid. The show never did anything supernatural or metaphysical. Also, Lucrezia turning on her family and trying to kill Cesare and Rodrigo didn't fit in with her character.

Yeah, the Penelope thing was interesting, but most of these other plotlines just seem like the show trying too hard to be interesting or something. But the characters are suffering, and Cheryl is actually getting boring as a character. I honestly cannot believe that Toni is sticking around through all that madness. I know, season 1 this show was brilliant, but trying to maintain the show's trajectory since then has been difficult for the show, especially since they're also trying to be politically correct while telling the story. You cannot serve two masters.

I'd probably watch Nancy Drew if there were a Hardy Boys show accompanying it. :lol: I was a big fan of The Hardy Boys/Nancy Drew Mysteries when I was a kid, and I was a bit Frank/Nancy shipper. :D But I agree with you about CW screwing up ships. Like I said, CW has a serious problem with storytelling, which is its dedication to stuff that has nothing to do with storytelling.

I forgot Lois had a sister named Lucy. :lol: But they killed off Doomsday so easily and so early? No Death of Superman or Rise of the Supermen storyline? And no Jimmy Olsen working at the Daily Planet? Damn.

Yes, they were British... before NKotB I think. They were huge.

I mean even from a historical perspective I find it absolutely stupid the whole notion of Rodrigo in hell – like out of all the Renaissance pope's it's actually something that historians agree upon that he was probably the one who had the most genuine faith as he was especially devoute when it came to praying to St. Mary. And as a Protestant I simply resent this whole concept insofar as – Christ has died for our sins, and so if we have faith in Christ our sins are forgiven. I didn't even read so far as to come to the Lucrezia killing Cesare part. I mean I wasn't a CL incest shipper anymore but that is so ahistorical I just cannot. Everybody knows that he visited her in Ferrara regularly and that she tried to intervene for his release from prison.

Me neither. I mean how hasn't she run for the hills yet when she has discovered Jason out of the crypt???

Are they though? I mean Hiram beats Hermione and she sleeps with him and they are back together and all lovey-dovey. FP is the sheriff but he also goes out as a gang leader and beats people to a pulp. And otherwise I cannot see what this show is doing anymore to be honest.

I can only say I think Nancy Drew is pretty awesome. I was very cautious about it but now I'm fully on board.

No Jimmy worked at the Daily Planet as a photographer. And the Doomsday thing took a whole season. For some reason he and Chloe were a thing. It was like pulling teeth. Well I mean Smallville has this problem that Clark can't be Superman... he only is allowed to at the very end. But yeah in comic land and on Smallville and on Supergirl Lois Lane has a sister named Lucy who is actually together with Jimmy Olsen (sadly not on Smallville but on Supergirl and in the comics).

Ah, I see. :) That's probably why I never heard of him.

Agreed, I mean... della Rovere probably did more to land himself in Hell than Rodrigo when he became Pope. :rolleyes: I think it was more of the reputation of the Borgia family than anything else. And yeah, he goes to Hell because he can't find anyone to take his confession before he dies. It doesn't matter if anyone is there or not, if you genuinely seek repentance then that's enough. You can say it out loud to no one. As for Lucrezia, the Apocalypse script implied that it was Lucrezia who poisoned Rodrigo and that Cesare had been partially poisoned as well but survived. It also implied a relationship between Cesare and Micheletto, which is totally inconsistent with history. Yes, you're correct that Cesare did visit Lucrezia frequently and she did try to get him out of prison.

Yeah, I would think that Jason's dead body sitting in Cheryl's home would be a deal breaker for anyone, even Toni. :lol: She's supposed to be a Southside Serpent and she's tolerating this?

But Hiram and Hermione are Hispanic, so that's enough. That's why they let him get away with it. It's enough that they're there for representation. They wouldn't do this with Frank and Mary, and Hal ended up getting sent to prison and killed off. Also, why would Toni stick around with Cheryl for so long when no sane person would? Again, LGBT representation. It doesn't matter how bat-poop crazy Cheryl gets, they can't break her and Toni up because that just wouldn't be right. :rolleyes: This is why PC ruins storytelling.

Well I'm glad you like Nancy Drew, at least. :) Oh, so Jimmy did work at the Planet and the Doomsday thing was the entire season? Well, they did still change things from the comics because I liked the comics version better. Oh, Jimmy was with Chloe? Strange how she turned out in real life.

Them. they were a band.

Did he though? I mean his approach to the papacy was just very different. The biography I read had many excerpts of letters from him and I think he wa fully aware that he wasn't a traditionally pious man but he was a principled man in the sense that he honestly believed it was his calling to keep the papal states together for the church. His ideas were very worldly to re-build St. Peter to the glory of God –*something that is so very far removed from any evangelical thinking that you can pray to God in the most humble abode. But he certainly wasn't alone in that thinking. I mean other popes that came later thought even bigger and spent even more.

Man, I read this novel at some point... and it is true that Rodrigo had Sancia incarcerated at some point... but then Joffre freed her and they poisoned Rodrigo together... I guess Cesare ate something by accident... I think that would have at least been more entertaining and less offensive.

Nah, sorry, I can't let you off the hook here – yes they are Hispanic but the domestic violence is basically saying look Hispanic people are domestically violent, white people would never do that. That's so far away from anything PC as you can get. And Moose – look every relationship he has ends in death of him being expelled or hazed or something. You can't tell me he is mollycoddled for PC reasons. Hal got away with heaps of crap until Penelope finally shot him. Penelope who is still on the loose. I think the thing with Cheryl is not so much about her sexuality tbh but just that they think her character is so precious and they don't want to lose her but they also do not know what to do with her. So the Toni relationship is the best they can come up with.

Yeah, let's not talk about Allison Mack, it's so creepy. I had trouble watching Smallville at first... took me a few seasons to get over it.

Sorry. :lol: That was a typo.

Yeah, his approach was different, but he was a lot more militant than Rodrigo was. He really didn't have any higher moral ground to stand on. He certainly did more in terms of warfare than Rodrigo did, and he also committed lechery.

I don't know if that could be true, since Sancia died young, didn't she? Joffre moved on from her.

Okay, we can disagree on this. :lol: But I still think that the CW in general is way too "woke" for it's own good. Yes, what you said is true, but I still think they do this for reasons that have more to do with politics than anything else. Just look at the direction CW has gone over the years since the days of Gilmore Girls, Nikita, and Smallville.

Okay, I won't mention her. :lol:

Yeah, they were all not particularly holy. What can you do. Renaissance pope, eh?

Well yes, Sancia died young but after Rodrigo, I think the same year as Cesare. Joffre married his cousin Maria de Milà.

I don't see it, sorry.

And yeah, I'm just totally creeped out by what she did at this cray cray sect. I guess her sentencing is next week.

Yeah, that was a pretty messy period in history, huh?

I think that Joffre and Sancia were no longer together by then, though. :shrug: I could be mistaken. I know she died after Joffre left her.

It's okay. :lol: CW isn't as bad as Freeform. But just look at the Arrowverse and you'll see what I mean.

It's a shame what happened to her. These crazy cults are ridiculous.

:lurking:

I think he helped her out of prison but they never lived together in the traditional sense after a brief stint after their wedding when Rodrigo sent them down to claim Squillace.

I don't know, you know the only show I watch there is Supergirl and I think that has recovered again once they moved away from the Kara Zor-El /Mon-El romance and now there's no romance at all. So much like Nancy Drew I really prefer that – at least we have constistent writing and a plot to a thousand ships and fanservice to sit through. I can forgive one season that was a judgement error. The other shows in the universe I do not watch tbh. Never appealed.

Yeah on the one hand I'm like, something must have cracked and I guess she's a victim to a degree but then she has tortured so many people and traded young girls for sex with that icky cult leader to gain favour, blackmailed other people, extorted them, branded other women... I mean... there is something not right. And when you read her "apology" that she issued during the trial, it didn't sound the least bit sincere. All her money must have gone into this cult because her mother leveraged her house for her defence. It's not my place to judge really... that's the court's and God's but it doesn't sound good to me.

Hahaha Arinna :lmao:

I've posted my thoughts about della Rovere on the Cesar/François thread so that I didn't go too deeply off topic here.

That's correct, Nina, Sancia and Joffre only lived together for brief periods of time. Near Naples when they first married and in Rome part of the time. They had no love for each other and it seems Sancia considered him a poor lover and he considered her a ****. He did lobby Rodrigo on her behalf to release her from prison.

I think FF just censored you, Lila. :lol: But I do think you're right about Sancia. And thanks for posting on the Francois thread. :nod:

Lurking again, Arinna? :lol:

Yeah, that's what I read as well, Nina. :)

You didn't like the Kara/Mon-El thing? Ironic how they ended up together in real life. :lol: But I agree, if the romance thing isn't working out in the narrative, best to let it go. I've often complained about how forced pairings seem on TV these days. And yes, I agree with Nancy Drew as well. :nod: If she's not gonna be with Frank Hardy, let her be with no one. :lol: It's better that she sticks to solving mysteries because that other stuff gets in the way. And I'm glad that you don't watch the other shows because I gave up on them a long time ago. :( Arrow and The Flash had the chance to be epic, but they screwed it up.

OMG, she said all that? :eek: That sounds like that Jonestown thing to me. I'm actually glad that I never paid attention to her story then. It sounds really icky.

No, that's how I wrote it. Cause that's a bad word. :lmao: