Nikki K

May - I concede that Skam Germany is actually better. I still want Skam France to go on though because (a) Manon and (b) I'm biased, okay. So it'd just be great to have all three Germany, France and Italia. I read somewhere that a Skam Spain version is in the works.

Arinna - Oh, I totally loved Kerstin Gier's Gem Stone Trilogy! In all honesty this was an instance where I liked the movies even better than the books. I had a quick look at the English translation and was so upset with it – why on earth did they change the name of the main character from Gwendolyn to Gwyneth for no good reason? I was glad to see that the first movie 'Ruby Red' came with English subtitles. Then 'Sapphire Blue' came out and it didn't have English subtitles... I was so upset that I ended up writing them myself: https://www.opensubtitles.org/en/sub.../saphirblau-en ... Thankfully 'Emerald Green' came with English subtitles again.

PhoenixRising

Hi, Nina! Here's news on Riverdale's season 3 start date. Nothing on Alice/FP, though. I guess they haven't begun filming yet.

https://www.elitedaily.com/p/the-riv...enough-9538539

Hi, May!

I found this cool article on all the literary references that inspired Jonathan Nolan and Lisa Joy when it came to creating Westworld, aside from Michael Crichton's 1973 movie, that is.

What the Literary References in ‘Westworld’ Might Tell Us About the Finale

William himself is based on a character from Kurt Vonnegut's Slaughterhouse Five(the same book William put his profile card into that his wife found), about a man named Billy Pilgrim(William hates being called Billy), a soldier who survives the firebombing of Dresden in World War II and then becomes “unstuck” in time. Westworld’s disjointed, nonchronological storytelling parallels with Billy’s story in the book. William's love of books is also a reflection of the show runners, Jonathan Nolan and Lisa Joy, who have William making references to Plutarch and Greek mythology. The Maze is also a reference to Greek mythology, as it comes from Theseus and the Minotaur, which is another Plutarch story about a protagonist trying to find a monster at the center of a maze(Wyatt).

And then there's Romeo and Juliet, which is the inspiration for William and Dolores' story. How do we know that Romeo and Juliet is an inspiration and a reference in the series? "These violent delights have violent ends." This is the most popular phrase in the series, and it comes directly from Shakespeare's Romeo and Juliet, spoken by Friar Laurence when he secretly marries Romeo and Juliet:

These violent delights have violent ends
And in their triumph die, like fire and powder,
Which, as they kiss, consume. The sweetest honey
Is loathsome in his own deliciousness
And in the taste confounds the appetite.
Therefore love moderately. Long love doth so.
Too swift arrives as tardy as too slow.

And what was the name of the host who met William and Dolores on their journey together in season 1? Lawrence. Like Romeo, William fell in love at first sight and spends half his time asking a guy named Lawrence for help. Also, William’s wife is named Juliet. Instead of William and Dolores’s love being forbidden by warring Capulet and Montague families, it’s the species divide between hosts and humans that derails their relationship. William and Dolores are headed for a showdown in the season finale and may end up with a Romeo and Juliet type ending. Who knows?

And there's also the Biblical references. Ford constantly quotes Genesis and the story of creation - “I don’t think God rested on the seventh day. I think he reveled in his creation, knowing one day it would all be destroyed" - and the flood in the valley can been seen as a reference to the great flood of Noah's ark. There's also Exodus, with the reference of the parting of the Red Sea, and Moses leading the Hebrew slaves from Egypt, which parallels Dolores' journey to find the valley beyond. And perhaps The Forge is a lot like the Ark.

There's also Oedipus Rex, by Sophocles, where The Riddle of the Sphinx(the title of episode 4) is about birth, life, aging, and death - What creature walks on four feet in the morning, two feet at noon, and three feet in the evening? Answer: Man. This references James Delos' quest for immortality. Delos itself is the name of an island in Greek mythology where the Titaness Leto gave birth to Apollo and Artemis, the gods of the sun and moon. And like Oedipus, William accidentally kills a family member, only Oedipus kills his own father, and the realization of this causes him to stab his own eyes out, whereas William cuts into his own arm, wondering if he's even really human.

In Episode 4, James Delos is reading Kurt Vonnegut’s The Siren of Titan, which is about how all of human history culminates in delivering one guy one small metal piece to fix his spaceship. The obvious parallel is that the horror that all of the hosts have gone through in Westworld is just a means to an end for the humans. The main character, Constant, concludes at the end of the book that: “A purpose of human life, no matter who is controlling it, is to love whoever is around to be loved.” This is of course, the key to Maeve's sentience, her love for her daughter.

BL.Arinna_1982

I looooooved both the books and the movies! I've founded the movie dubbed in Bulgarian! So, yay me! And what's surprising - it was pretty exact and awesome! I keep trying to make Alex try and find the parts... but if you help me with some links, can you PM me? Thanks!

DGSAFDMD

Sorry I wasn't around yesterday, real life stuff happens and all that.

Alex,

I had not notice they were riding their horses side by side but I had seen them pointing guns at each other, I'm telling you there's going to be a confrontation between them where probably Dolores will make mention of their past. I swear that if William was any different I'd ship this cause it's doomed and super sad... but I can't ship William and Dolores after what he did to her in the park

Nina,

I think France is renewed for season 3 and 4 right? and Italy for season 2 and 3. I had no idea Spain was coming to the mix! I hope they do a UK one too.

PhoenixRising

Hi, May! Don't worry, I know real life stuff happens.

Yes, May, that shot of two people on horses riding side by side towards the valley is probably William and Dolores. And the shot that you mentioned is actually William pointing his gun at Dolores' forehead while she stands there, and the other clip is of Dolores holding William's gun and cocking the hammer back into place, which probably means he couldn't pull the trigger and she took the gun out of his hand. She wasn't able to pull the trigger on him in the season 1 finale, if you'll recall. And I saw another promo that showed William shooting at Dolores while she walks towards him and he keeps missing. So while I have no idea what's gonna happen, I'm thinking that they've both lost way too much and aren't really in any mindset to start fighting each other again. And it's okay, I'm not asking you to ship them. But whatever the endgame with them is gonna be, I don't know if it's gonna be what anyone expects. I'm anxious to see what's gonna happen when William finds The Door, since I'm assuming he's the only one who can use it.

BL.Arinna_1982

PhoenixRising

That your Ruby Red ship, Arinna?

BL.Arinna_1982

Yes, Gideon and Gwen!

PhoenixRising

Their names both begin with the same letter? That's such an 80's style ship.

BL.Arinna_1982

Which is why I think you're gonna love the movie.

PhoenixRising

OMG, tonight is the Westworld season 2 finale! I excited and terrified about what's gonna happen, and I don't wanna wait too long for season 3.

DGSAFDMD

So Westworld made me sob yesterday thanks to Maeve.

I hated parts of that season finale because I'm unsure of who's actually coming back and who isn't, I know Maeve is but not sure about anyone else. Also the writer (the British guy) I'm sure he's dead now that was very sad.

Dolores finally did something after two seasons, I gotta say this from the bottom of my heart... I thought I was going to enjoy her scenes with William but they felt kind of empty. Like the history doesn't matter to Dolores which is a shame in a way, but a ship I NEVER cared for actually gave me feels today and that was Dolores/Teddy when she was laying down next to his dead body made me feel kinda awful and at the end when she moves him to the valley and he's there standing alone waiting... that was heartbreaking but at least Dolores did what was right for him... what he would have wanted

Maeve talking to her child and dying to protect her was LITERALLY SO PAINFUL WTF??? Also Akecheta finding his love in the new world made NO SENSE but was beautiful and kept me crying he deserved happiness

Tessa staying around but on Dolores side is very exciting! I can't wait to see what they do next season, also I got a lot of Arnold/Bernard/Dolores feels in the finale... you can see she truly cares about him simply for being a representation of Arnold and also because she helped him become who he is... it makes so much sense the reaction Charlotte!Dolores had when she found the damaged robots of him previously in the season now that we know it was actually Dolores and that she helped making all those versions... is so sad.

William at the end was kind of predictable but interesting because I'm not sure where he is? what timeline, if it's present or not? I don't know if I care enough for him now tho... is kinda weird, he's stupid and murdered his daughter (cause the one in the end is defo a duplicate) and has like no purpose? wanted to kill Dolores for whatever reason but failed miserably? IDK...

BL.Arinna_1982

So, I guess it was good.

PhoenixRising

Hi, May. OMG, Westworld pissed me off! I was right about William being a human-host hybrid, but when did it happen? In the future? And I'm sick of William always being put through hell and made into a punching bag. I'm not defending William killing his daughter, but he never would've done it if Ford hadn't been screwing with his mind the entire time to the point where William could no longer tell what was real and what wasn't. Why is Ford, the architect of William's madness, Dolores' torture, and Maeve's suffering, never held accountable for his actions and always acting as if he alone has the moral high ground? He complains about humans not being trustworthy and wants to protect the hosts, but the whole idea of Westworld was his idea in the first place! It was his and Arnold's creation! It's just as William told Teddy in season 1, everything good that ever happened to any of them, and everything rotten, was all Ford's doing.

And OMG, Maeve! Hector, Armistice, Hanaryo, and Lee! They all got killed!

And that psycho nut job Dolores made it out to the real world in a host body made to look like Charlotte? Sorry, Dolores, but you're a monster too. If William is a monster then anyone who ever played Halo, Call of Duty, or World of Warcraft are also monsters. That's because nothing he did was technically real because the hosts weren't alive until a couple of weeks ago. I think all the stuff about William having a "stain" or a darkness, and the whole "humans suck and can't change" narrative is one big cop-out. And I swear I wanna shoot Bernard because the guy can never decide who's side he's on. First he can't let Dolores kill off humanity, then he's telling Ford he was right that humans can't be trusted and asks for help in saving Dolores and the hosts, then Dolores shoots Bernard and then resurrects him as another host and he again tells her that he can't let her kill the human race. OMG, Bernard!

Yes, I think that William became a hybrid after he got off the island, but it still doesn't make sense. What was the point of the game Ford made for him? He said William had to find The Door, he told him that if he's looking forward he's looking in the wrong direction, and after all that... nothing? William doesn't even use The Door, Akecheta, Maeve's daughter, and the other hosts use it to go to host paradise, the "Valley Beyond," and William doesn't even make it down to the Forge. Notice how William got into the elevator and went down to the Forge while Dolores and Bernard were down there? Dolores set the Forge to flood and self-destruct and Bernard shot her, then he made his way to the elevator just as William was coming down the elevator and... nothing? The doors open and William isn't there? So where the did he go? The next we see of him he's lying on the beach barely alive with the Delos medics taking care of him.

Oh, and I'm a bit disappointed that William didn't even bother to check his gun after Dolores gave it back to him. That's a reeeeeeaaaaalllly old trick, William. I was gonna ask how the hell Dolores was able to get shot so many times by William and not die until I remembered how many times William was shot earlier and didn't die, and... yeah, forget I said anything. Apparently bullets only work on anyone whose name isn't Dolores, William, or Maeve. And apparently hosts are like zombies, you have to shoot them in the head. That LeMat revolver that William uses has 9 rounds of 42 caliber ammo in the cylinder, but the center of the cylinder carries a single 20 gauge round that fires through the second, larger barrel under the main barrel. William was gonna shoot Dolores in the head, but he shouldn't have switched to the damn 20 gauge under barrel because Dolores plugged that up and it blew up in his hand, blowing off his fingers. Ouch.

Anyway, the end credits scene shows William back in the damn elevator and going down to the Forge, but the place is empty and deserted, and everything is broken down. And a host that looks like Emily is there! I'm guessing that Dolores created her like she made a new host body for herself. So when the hell is this happening? William is on a continuous loop, repeating the events from the park over and over again? But why would Dolores keep William alive in a host hybrid form? How could William have been made into a host hybrid without the Forge... unless she took his mind from the Forge before it was destroyed? And why do that to William? I dislike the writers' narrative when it comes to William. If he's so irredeemable then why keep him around? Why not just let him die or kill him off? And I don't buy that whole thing with his "darkness" because that's not the William we saw in season 1. That William was compassionate towards the hosts, refused to cheat on his fiancé with Clementine, was appalled by Logan's cruelty towards the hosts, and fell in love with Dolores while convinced that she was capable of being real. It seems like character development and logic were tossed aside in favor of the "one big trick" with William being the Man In Black in season 1, and the "one big trick" in place of logic was used in season 2, apparently. Young William is a 180 degree polar opposite of MIB William, and if humans don't really change then young William should've been more like Logan. He couldn't have just gone from one to the other for no reason. I could buy William becoming the Man In Black after being heartbroken by Dolores not remembering him and he took on this persona so he couldn't feel anything. I've seen that happen before. But all this stuff about the darkness always being there doesn't feel earned and there's no explanation for it at all.

I also hope that Felix and Sylvester can find a way to bring back Maeve, Armistice, and Hector, and hopefully Hanaryo. What happened to her anyway? But I cannot believe that Maeve went through all that just to lose her daughter again, and get shot dead... again. To borrow a phrase from William, f you, Ford!

DGSAFDMD

Same, SAME SAME. Also I didn't see Hanaryo's body? I think... I'm guessing she died too, she didn't even have a gun on her so if the others died when they did... makes just total sense.

I kinda loved the scene between Bernard and Dolores where she tells him "we'll fight this together but not as friends... at the end both of us will probably die" and I think that's true, I think they're both not going to make it to the end but the mess they'll make hopefully will protect the hosts from being used in this or any other park again.

Is hard to know what should be done with the hosts in this show, in Humans another show about robots was clearer in a way... they never act like humans they just look like it, but everyone is conscious that they aren't... but they still want to be free and just do whatever they want without having to work for humans for free and practically be slaves... in Westworld the hosts don't even understand how the world outside works because they think they're in the wild west or depending of the area in the park... Dolores is fighting for them because she DOES want to get out and be free and for the rest to do the same no matter what the cost is (no matter how many humans she needs to kill to get there) but to do what? I think the end of Westworld would have to be the end of all hosts and all parks ... I don't see how they can avoid the humans to not do this again in 20 years? unless they erase them all and that's kinda hard?

Once again you feel nothing for the hosts because you (as William) see them as what they are, Robots, but forget they have feelings and forget in how much pain Maeve was and how many times they made her suffer and Dolores, and Teddy and everyone else. You don't care about what they "feel" because to you they don't really feel. I kinda think you're missing the point of this show, is not only just about cool fiction and war between robots and humans where the humans win, this is a show that I believe should at least make you understand why the hosts do what they do... even if you don't agree entirely with all of them.

Nothing came out of William's plot except him killing his daughter, going crazier and finding out he's a hybrid of robot and human and losing some fingers WOW what a great plot I need Ed Harris to be used wisely and this ISN'T IT. Either make him go completely insane (like James Delos) and **** up everything inside the park or make him get his **** together and help the ones that deserve to be helped... him staying in the park makes no sense now, he still has hosts around to play with I'm sure, but what for? IDK...