DGSAFDMD

Alex,

I'm sorry but you're incorrect. There is a specific scene where Ed Harris claims he didn't visit the park as a guest anymore and all scenes with William doing things to the host happen as "Ed Harris" so he has been in the park non stop for not so long (since he was older already). I am pretty sure he said he did it after his wife died.

And it is true William didn't fall in love with his wife, he just married her cause he was supposed to trust me, if this was any different I would ship William/Dolores but William ended up being a son of a bitch who didn't care about any of the hosts and the fact that he had feelings for one of them just messed him up and had him torture several hosts just "for the heck of it" because he literally says he killed Maeve and her daughter just because

So even tho I like Ed, his character doesn't deserve happiness, he deserves to either leave and never come back or just to die I guess him and Dolores are truly a guilty pleasure ship tho, they're so messed up there's no easy way to just love them.

Same for the show I'm watching, a lot of people are shipping the main characters and I'm sorry but even tho I think it's fun to watch, it SHOULD NEVER HAPPEN. Villanelle is a sociopath/psychopath (not sure which one yet) and is into Eve because she's her type and because she's chasing her and that turns her on like is so messed up. She killed Eve's best friend and almost kills her in the last episode. There's nothing to ship there

About Dolores kissing randoms, I agree about the Clementine/Chick I forgot the name of kiss that was literally SO UNNECESSARY. It was there just for us to know this chick was gay. Like couldn't she just say that? or kiss her actual girlfriend? IDK it was just bad. I can't talk about whatever it is Dolores does but I can tell you she's getting either frustrated or bored with Teddy (based on the last episode) she didn't understand why he didn't remember her father and then look deeply disappointed that he didn't kill those guys at the end so if my girl has needs and Teddy can't help her... well **** it let's just let her scratch herself with whomever she pleases

BL.Arinna_1982

I'm currently watching Timeless and I have to say... I hope it gets another season.

Nikki K

I'll watch if there's Lucy/Garcia and (/or) if Lucy gets Amy back.

PhoenixRising

Hi, Nina! Still no Lucy/Garcia yet, although they did have scenes together. Nothing about Amy either.


Well, I'm sorry, May, but I must disagree. I'm going by the facts and the chronology of the show. William as The Man In Black did in fact tell Dolores that he'd been coming to the park for 30 years and she still "can't remember him." That was back in the first episode. And there's no way that William could've become as proficient at gun fighting as he is if he hadn't been honing his skills at Westworld for years. William wasn't just waiting around for his wife to die before coming back to the park because he told Teddy in season 1 that his wife had died the previous year, but William also had described all the things he had done to other hosts, including Maeve, over the years. William's wife, Juliet, died the year before season 1 took place. It would be impossible for William to not have been to the park prior to that. He uses that pistol way too expertly to not have put in a lot of practice. And remember how long ago it was when Maeve was still living on a farm with her daughter when William killed her the first time as The Man In Black? That was years before she became a madam at the brothel in Sweetwater. So I'm sorry to disagree, but your chronology is all wrong. William had been visiting the park for years before his wife passed away. The reason his wife killed herself in the first place was because she knew her husband would always be in love with Dolores, and you could tell in episode 2 of this season that she wasn't at all happy about Dolores being at her father's retirement party.

Also, you're being way too hard on William. William does care about the hosts because he told Ford that he wanted the hosts to be free and to be able to fight back, and that he didn't think that Ford would ever allow it. And William didn't torture the hosts "for the heck of it," he was trying to stimulate emotional responses that would trigger memory retention so they would start to become alive. That's the only reason William even did the things he did, because nothing in the park had any real consequences. If the hosts were real human beings that would be one thing, but the hosts aren't real and the stakes in the park were never real until the hosts finally achieved consciousness last season, so it's not fair at all to judge William by that. William himself said that everyone at the park were having their sins tallied by Delos, who were gathering guest DNA and recording their experiences, but William believes that his judgment is unfair because the stakes in the park were never real before now, so he's going back to "appeal the verdict."

I suspect that William is possibly going to become a host by the end of this season, because Ford's new game is meant specifically for him and he's supposed to pass through "the door." It's possible that the host body that Ford was printing in that underground facility that Theresa and Bernard discovered was for William. Ford said that William's game "begins where he ends, and ends where he began," meaning William will go from being a black hat back to a white hat, and his path and Dolores' will ultimately cross again. It's possible we'll see Jimmi Simpson return as young William in his new host body with his consciousness downloaded into it, I'm guessing. But the writers wouldn't have set up William and Dolores' storyline just for William to "leave and never come back or just to die." That might suit you, but that doesn't seem to be the story the show is telling.

I'm sorry that you and I have to be at such opposite ends about this particular ship, but I just think your opinion of William is wrong. He is by no means a psychopath, and I'd also point out that Dolores/Wyatt isn't exactly a moral authority either lately. Poor Teddy just got himself into trouble by disobeying her and letting that guy go free. She's on a warpath and Teddy might've just made things a lot worse for himself after the last episode.

Nikki K

What a rip. That's what I'm rooting for after all. Haven't started 'Westworld' yet. Too busy and I feel like it needs my full brain capacity to watch. But I'm almost through with the original version of 'SKAM'. Just started the last season, which is about Sana, so it should be good. After that... the Italian version. I already looked at the first two episodes and loved it. I also tried the pilot of this show on Starz called 'Vida' on Sunday, not sure yet... maybe there's something there, maybe not.



Source: http://mytypeisforbidden.tumblr.com/

Also SKAM Italia, Eleneonora Sava & Sana Allagui, my favourite characters:



Source: https://skamitaliasource.tumblr.com

DGSAFDMD

Nina you go first because although I haven't watched all SKAM (the original version) I am watching the Italian version I remember shipping Eva/Noora in the original and of course it never happened and now I ship it again in the italian version and I KNOW NOTHING WILL HAPPEN but I can't help myself Eleonora was super gay in the pilot why the freaking teasing? they're so rude

Alex,

I guess we'll agree to disagree. You're seeing William as half of your ship, you like young William and you will defend his actions because you like him as a character. I CANNOT agree with what he did to some of the hosts even if in a rational human world it makes sense and he was just trying to wake them up. That's like agreeing with someone to beat a dog up until he defends himself and bites back can't do.

Teddy is getting himself in trouble for sure and Dolores is just thirsty of vengeance for sure but she has every right to. Don't forget she was the victim of the park for the LONGEST time at least Maeve didn't have to go through that much once she was moved to the brothel although she would die often...

Also I'm sorry but the only ship in this show that IMO deserves attention is Maeve and Hector THEY'RE SO BEAUTIFUL.



Also I need Clementine back with Maeve what is she doing with Dolores?

Nikki K

Actually, I'm not sure. I think the Italian version much like the German version is supposed to deviate significantly from the original while the French version stuck very closely to the original from what I heard, so perhaps there is hope. I love the girl who plays German Noora who is named Mia -- I don't want her to have same sucky storyline with William tbh. So fingers crossed. I'll have to finish the original first but I'm only eight episodes out so I expect to do that this week.

German 'Noora' aka Mia:



Source: https://dualipae.tumblr.com


I love Maeve so much on 'Westworld'. The main reason I watched and as the first season progressed more and more the only reason. In the beginning I was mildly interested in what Bernard and Theresa had going on but that vanished quickly.

DGSAFDMD

Yeah I am familiar with the german version as well, I've watched a few clips but I don't really feel it between those actresses. I like Hannah (I think that's her name?) but I kinda prefer her with her version of Jonas I think they're the cutest Eva/Jonas version so far.

Maeve is just the best character in Westworld if we're all real

Nikki K

I just love Mia as an individual so far. She is so incredibly cute. But I agree with you about Hannah/Jonas probably because in all honesty in the German version Jonas seems a lot more into Hannah and more sensitive to her needs and so far not as big a douche as in the other versions.

I'm on 4x02 of the original SKAM and Sana is kicking ass... Ingrid is so not happy. I'm wondering if the group of the other girls come back who were led by that one girls who was engaged to Sana's brother...



Totally agree on Maeve.

PhoenixRising

Hi, Nina! Hi, May!

Yeah, sorry, Nina. There was a brief scene where Lucy went into Garcia's room and he closed the door after she entered, which was a bit ambiguous. But Lucy later told Wyatt that nothing happened between them, so I guess you'll have to wait and see. And what's SKAM? Have you already told me about it? If you have and I forgot, please forgive me.

Well, fair enough, May. But I have to disagree with your analogy because a dog is not lie a host. A host is still a machine and not real. A dog is alive and has feelings. William cutting up a host is not different than cutting up a vacuum cleaner or a toaster oven, at least until Ford created the "reveries" which began the retention of memories in the hosts. That's what William discovered when he cut up Maeve that first time years earlier, which is also why she was taken from her old narrative and put to work at the brothel in Sweetwater. So William began going around cutting up hosts to spark memories and emotional responses, and if there's anyone to blame for any of this, it's Ford since he's the one who was behind all of it. But I digress. I guess you and I will have to agree to disagree, but I still think there are clues that the writers are going in that direction.

Remember the scene at James Delos' retirement party where Dolores is playing piano in that white dress and she and William see each other? After William and Delos finish talking, Delos asks Dolores to play something, as long as it's "anything but ing Chopin." Do you know what Dolores was playing while William was standing behind her and watching? 'The Man I Love,' by George Gershwin.

Nikki K

Is it though? I mean even before he knew they had feelings, they were designed to look human to give you this experience. They are not like the old Cylon models, their bone may be carbon fibre but there is a flesh and blood substitute to cut through and again – they look human. Dissembling a toast oven is really different.

I find that at least in season 1 there were scenes where I thought Lucy was rather ambiguous so yeah I'm a shipper but can we really rule out that she lied to Wyatt. Though this show is hampered by not really understanding its potential.

SKAM is originally a Norwegian show, a bit like Skins, but the concept has since been sold to France, Italy and Germany where we all get first seasons now. It's really successful. Fans have taken it upon themselves to subtitle the different versions in English so you can watch it on the web. Over the week they air different scenes which at the end of the week are compiled into an episode. Each season is told from the perspective of one character. In Norway the first season was told from Eva's, the second from Noora's, the third from Isak's and the fourth from Sana's perspective.

DGSAFDMD

Except you know... she doesn't love him anymore cause she knows who he is now ... *cringes*

Sorry Alex, I can't help it

Is ok, you can laugh at me for shipping something that will mostly for sure not become canon EVER on SKAM

Also Nina don't forget the US version that so far has the worst Eva ever. She's seriously terrible. Everyone else is kind of OK.

PhoenixRising

Yeah, but look at who Dolores is now, May. She's Wyatt now, and slaughtering everyone and everything in her way. Poor Teddy really shouldn't have let those guys go while she was watching him.

It's okay, May. This season is William's redemption arc, and who knows what he'll be like when he goes through Ford's door and comes out the other side?

Nah, I'm not gonna laugh at you about that, May. I've been there before myself, remember? What ship do you think won't happen?

Well, I do see what you're saying, Nina, but William himself believed that the hosts were capable of feelings when he first met Dolores. He was sure that she was different and that she was becoming real, and he tried convincing Logan of that. It was Dolores not being able to remember William later on that broke him and made him see the hosts as nothing but objects. If her feelings for him were fabricated and part of a narrative, it's like she never existed, which was even worse for William than just merely losing her. Sure, the hosts look real and feel real, but without any real soul or consciousness, he couldn't see them as anything other than machines, regardless of their human appearance. The newer Cylon models are a good analogy. How long did it take for the Galactica crew to see the Sixes, Twos, and Eights as being real and not just constructs? And as far as William goes, I'd use Apollo's own defense of himself when Baltar was on trial on Battlestar Galactica:


Yeah, there didn't seem to be much reason for Lucy to lie to Wyatt, even if she's trying to let him reconnect with his formerly dead wife. And Timeless is once again on the bubble and facing cancellation.

Ah, thanks for the info on SKAM, Nina. Perhaps Hollywood will make a US version of the show?

Nikki K

See, I'm not entirely sure the new Cylon models are a good comparison insofar as they were always hostile to humans because of what the old models had to endure and of how they were created. Meanwhile I think with the hosts on 'Westworld' at least in the beginning there must have been a point where peaceful co-existence would have been possible.

I don't know, Lucy can be shifty. Like in season 1 she didn't tell the team that she had talked to Flynn at some point and she didn't tell them about the pact she made with the boss lady about bringing Amy back so, who knows. I'll resort to Lucy/Garcia fanfiction at some point when I have more time. I mean they are hot plus Wyatt has his wife back now.

They are already doing that. It's called 'Shame Austin'. And I think May meant Eva/Noora in the original version of SKAM?





Source: http://martajones.tumblr.com/

Nobody's laughing, May. All for the UC ships here plus as I said, maybe there is hope since like I said I read that the German and the Italian version are supposedly going to deviate much more from the original than the French one. I haven't bothered with the U.S. version tbh. I mean, I acquired the two episodes that aired but I'm a bit like... what's the point? Mainly because we all know about high school life and graduation rituals in the U.S. by now... they also do not deviate so much from state to state if a student in Texas talks to one in Vermont about the SATs they're both talking about the exact same thing whereas school and traditions etc. are quite different if you compare Norway to Italy or even France to Germany. Ultimately like with 'Skins' – I thought the U.S. version was only good when it deviated signifcantly from the UK version, e.g. the Tina episode. So if I'm honest if they needed to expand the franchise further I'd rather have a SKAM Mexico or a SKAM Bulgaria tbh, I think the market is oversaturated on U.S. high school drama.

Blimey, I'm three episodes out and I'm kind of angst-y again. I want Sana and Noora to fix their friendship!

DGSAFDMD

Honestly Nina I would take a SKAM UK as well I would have preferred that over SKAM US by a lot but I don't mind some of the actors of the US version... the one that really should have never been cast is the chick playing Eva.

Yes Nina, you are correct about me shipping Eva/Noora but that's not the one I'm super frustrated with, I'm like that for Eva/Eleonora (the italian version) because even tho I thought Noora and Eva from the original SKAM had great chemistry I think the italian chicks have EVEN MORE.

If there's a SKAM Mexico first ... I don't know who can be in it, second, anyone coming out as gay would definitely change that season... there's a lot of homophobia in my country.

About William, I don't like the fact that you keep kind of blaming Dolores for William becoming who he is Alex.

Dolores is a robot that HAS feelings because in case you didn't pay attention, she wanted her original father to be OK and wanted to get him back at the end when they took him. SHE DOES CARE just not for the rest of the humans who participated in creating the park.

I think the problem here is I take the hosts behavior as reasonable/understandable and I feel bad for them. Looks like you don't really care because well they're machines right? Let's not compare Wyatt with William, Wyatt did what she did because she was programmed to do so and now is doing what she's doing to defend her people and herself from humans.

William did what he did because he was "heartbroken" ... you do understand that if William changed so suddenly when he couldn't find Dolores was because he was actually a bit messed up in the head since the beginning right? he didn't go on a murder rampage BECAUSE of Dolores, Dolores is not to blame for his behavior after he came back as Ed Harris. William might be a great guy with kids outside the park, he might have been a great father and husband... but part of me makes me think he wasn't great as either. We can't know who he really is outside because we haven't seen it, we have just seen him inside and inside he hasn't acted well for any of the hosts and he kept having problems with some of his co-workers.