Fan Forum
Remember Me?
Register

  New Forum Poll   |     Request a Forum   |     View New Forums

Closed Thread   Post New Thread
 
Forum Affiliates Tags Thread Tools
Old 03-09-2019, 03:30 PM
  #46
Obsessed Fan

 
Mignonette's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 5,016
It amazes me that people said it was OOC for them. It was exactly their character and if people had been paying attention to subtext, like François said, "it was written all over the script" from their very first scene! Did people not see how sexual they were with each other from the beginning? Her watching him have sex, him lying on top of her telling her he loved her more than God? OMG, are people that sexually repressed and repelled so much by the thought of incest that they're blind?

I agree with Arinna, Lu WANTED to seduce Ces. She'd wanted to for a very long time, but lacked the maturity and confidence. When he gave her the green light by kissing her in the armoury, that was all she needed.

And they were already so comfortable with each other physically and so in love, that I don't think Lu would've felt any embarrassment at all being completely naked with him, nor him with her.

So I don't believe he was shocked by seeing her naked. He was shocked that she was naked FOR HIM.
Mignonette is offline  
Old 03-09-2019, 03:49 PM
  #47
Fan Forum Star

 
PhoenixRising's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 223,048
Hi, Lila!

No, it wasn't out of character for them, just a bit sudden, you know? I thought that it seemed out of place with the continuity of the rest of the episode, and later Siblings. Again, why would Lucrezia seem shocked when Cesare kisses her considering that she had just tried to seduce him in the previous episode during her "game of want and wanting" moment? But yes, the incest was written all over the script from the very first episode.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mignonette (View Post)
So I don't believe he was shocked by seeing her naked. He was shocked that she was naked FOR HIM.
Of course! Up until then, he had been the aggressor, like when he kissed her in the armory. When she tried to seduce him in her bedroom he was caught off guard because he didn't expect that.
__________________
In Loving Memory of Christine Dettloff(cheekymonkey503). Rest In Peace, Dear Cheekymonkey. ~ Alex
PhoenixRising is offline  
Old 03-09-2019, 04:02 PM
  #48
Obsessed Fan

 
Mignonette's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 5,016
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhoenixRising (View Post)
Hi, Lila!

No, it wasn't out of character for them, just a bit sudden, you know? I thought that it seemed out of place with the continuity of the rest of the episode, and later Siblings. Again, why would Lucrezia seem shocked when Cesare kisses her considering that she had just tried to seduce him in the previous episode during her "game of want and wanting" moment? But yes, the incest was written all over the script from the very first episode.



Of course! Up until then, he had been the aggressor, like when he kissed her in the armory. When she tried to seduce him in her bedroom he was caught off guard because he didn't expect that.
I don't think Lucrezia was shocked that Ces kissed her (by the seating chart). I think it was his sudden wildness that shocked her. He'd always been reserved and so romantic, even with his armoury kiss and in her bedroom when they almost kissed. His suddenly grabbing her by the neck and giving into his wild passion took her by surprise. It wasn't him kissing her, per se, since they'd already gone there.

Plus, he'd lost his self control not just with his display of passion, but also by doing it in a public area with the door open! That's why he sighed and ran away. He was disappointed in himself for being careless enough that they could've been caught and suffered consequences. He was her protector and he'd just endangered them by his recklessness AGAIN. Remember how his recklessness in killing Sforza had forced Lu into another marriage? Yeah, he was fighting giving into his lust, but mostly he was angry with himself for putting her in potential danger.
Mignonette is offline  
Old 03-10-2019, 01:53 PM
  #49
Fan Forum Star

 
BL.Arinna_1982's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 128,249
She wasn't shock at all!
__________________
Halo - Robsten - Edward/Bella - Paire
Love is a feeling...
BL.Arinna_1982 is offline  
Old 03-10-2019, 03:42 PM
  #50
Fan Forum Star

 
PhoenixRising's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 223,048
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mignonette (View Post)
I don't think Lucrezia was shocked that Ces kissed her (by the seating chart). I think it was his sudden wildness that shocked her. He'd always been reserved and so romantic, even with his armoury kiss and in her bedroom when they almost kissed. His suddenly grabbing her by the neck and giving into his wild passion took her by surprise. It wasn't him kissing her, per se, since they'd already gone there.

Plus, he'd lost his self control not just with his display of passion, but also by doing it in a public area with the door open! That's why he sighed and ran away. He was disappointed in himself for being careless enough that they could've been caught and suffered consequences. He was her protector and he'd just endangered them by his recklessness AGAIN. Remember how his recklessness in killing Sforza had forced Lu into another marriage? Yeah, he was fighting giving into his lust, but mostly he was angry with himself for putting her in potential danger.
Oh, so she was okay with seducing him in her bed, and him kissing her in the armory, but she was caught off guard when he kissed her near the seating chart? Like, "hey, are we doing this all the time, now?" And that one seemed a bit more passionate than the others.

Wasn't the armory a public place? Sure, it wasn't as public as the seating area, but still... anyone could've walked in and seen them. Or did they think that armory kiss was just their innocent Spanish family kisses? But you're right, he began to give into his lust a lot more by then. I think they both shocked each other by how far they were both willing to go.
__________________
In Loving Memory of Christine Dettloff(cheekymonkey503). Rest In Peace, Dear Cheekymonkey. ~ Alex
PhoenixRising is offline  
Old 03-10-2019, 04:33 PM
  #51
Obsessed Fan

 
Mignonette's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 5,016
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhoenixRising (View Post)
Oh, so she was okay with seducing him in her bed, and him kissing her in the armory, but she was caught off guard when he kissed her near the seating chart? Like, "hey, are we doing this all the time, now?" And that one seemed a bit more passionate than the others.

Wasn't the armory a public place? Sure, it wasn't as public as the seating area, but still... anyone could've walked in and seen them. Or did they think that armory kiss was just their innocent Spanish family kisses? But you're right, he began to give into his lust a lot more by then. I think they both shocked each other by how far they were both willing to go.
Yeah, the armoury was public and there were servants in the room. They probably would've just chalked it up to the spanish family kisses The same when he was in his bedroom with the tailor when Lu came in before Ces went to Naples with Alf. IRL, Ces threatened servants with beheading if they spoke a word about anything they'd ever seen or heard within the family. After Lu's lady's maid was found in the Tiber with Perotto, the servants took him seriously. This is why we haven't found any concrete evidence of incest, only circumstantial, which btw, is how almost all criminals are convicted. Direct evidence is rare. It's almost always circumstantial and through witness testimony - though notoriously unreliable.

But the seating board was in Lu's BEDROOM and they were ALONE. The door was wide open, so anyone could've walked by and seen them passionately kissing. There's no way they could've played that off as innocent, so it would've placed them in danger of a real scandal. Ces was recklessly taking all kinds of chances! Like if the maid had just walked in without knocking on the door of Lu's bedroom when she was naked in bed with her brother doing all kinds of
Mignonette is offline  
Old 03-11-2019, 04:55 PM
  #52
Fan Forum Star

 
PhoenixRising's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 223,048
Hi, Lila! I thought I saw other people in there when Cesare was having his armor put on. I think Lucrezia dismissed them so she could put his armor on herself.

Are Spanish family kisses a thing? OMG, really? Cesare threatened the help if they said anything? So that may indeed by a reason why there's no evidence of anything, although servants do talk a lot. Perhaps some of them saw something or heard something they weren't supposed to?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mignonette (View Post)
But the seating board was in Lu's BEDROOM and they were ALONE. The door was wide open, so anyone could've walked by and seen them passionately kissing. There's no way they could've played that off as innocent, so it would've placed them in danger of a real scandal. Ces was recklessly taking all kinds of chances! Like if the maid had just walked in without knocking on the door of Lu's bedroom when she was naked in bed with her brother doing all kinds of

Oh, the seating board was in Lu's bedroom? I don't really remember it being there when Cesare walked in on her naked. And yeah, Lucrezia was taking a big risk because one of her maids could've walked in on them, and very nearly did.
__________________
In Loving Memory of Christine Dettloff(cheekymonkey503). Rest In Peace, Dear Cheekymonkey. ~ Alex
PhoenixRising is offline  
Old 03-11-2019, 05:11 PM
  #53
Obsessed Fan

 
Mignonette's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 5,016
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhoenixRising (View Post)
Hi, Lila! I thought I saw other people in there when Cesare was having his armor put on. I think Lucrezia dismissed them so she could put his armor on herself.

Are Spanish family kisses a thing? OMG, really? Cesare threatened the help if they said anything? So that may indeed by a reason why there's no evidence of anything, although servants do talk a lot. Perhaps some of them saw something or heard something they weren't supposed to?

Oh, the seating board was in Lu's bedroom? I don't really remember it being there when Cesare walked in on her naked. And yeah, Lucrezia was taking a big risk because one of her maids could've walked in on them, and very nearly did.
Cesar dismissed the servant who was taking off his armour so that he and Lu could speak more privately, because she came in upset about the king writing to Alf that her child couldn't come to Naples. Other servants are visible in the armoury while Ces & Lu are kissing, but they're minding their own business and not watching cause, well, they didn't want to end up in the Tiber

Yeah, it's an historical fact the Ces threatened servants with beheading if they spoke about anything they'd seen or heard within the family.

You didn't see the wedding seating board in her bedroom cause her bedroom consists of the bed area and a sitting/dining area. You see only the bed area when she seduces Ces. After her wedding to Alf, they go to her bedroom and are making out as she sits on the table next to that chart. That's when Alf sees that Ces has moved Lu's name underneath his with their enemies on the other side and Alf alone in the middle with a question mark.

Which leads me to the point I've made before about Ces going into Lu's bedroom the day of her wedding. Why did he go to her room? To talk to her? Or something else? She wasn't there and he saw the seating board and that's when he got pissed looking at Lu's name beside Alf's and decided to rearrange it.

Last edited by Mignonette; 03-11-2019 at 05:17 PM
Mignonette is offline  
Old 03-12-2019, 03:26 PM
  #54
Fan Forum Star

 
BL.Arinna_1982's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 128,249
Because he knew that she'd always choose him.
__________________
Halo - Robsten - Edward/Bella - Paire
Love is a feeling...
BL.Arinna_1982 is offline  
Old 03-12-2019, 04:19 PM
  #55
Fan Forum Star

 
PhoenixRising's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 223,048
Hi, Lila! Yeah, I do remember the servant leaving when Lu came in. I do think that the whole issue of her bringing her child to Naples is probably what instigated the additional affection between them because Lucrezia really needed Cesare's support and he made her feel safe. Oh, I'm sure the other servants did their best to not pay attention to the kissing. Damn, Cesare was pretty strict with the help, huh?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mignonette (View Post)
You didn't see the wedding seating board in her bedroom cause her bedroom consists of the bed area and a sitting/dining area. You see only the bed area when she seduces Ces. After her wedding to Alf, they go to her bedroom and are making out as she sits on the table next to that chart. That's when Alf sees that Ces has moved Lu's name underneath his with their enemies on the other side and Alf alone in the middle with a question mark.

Which leads me to the point I've made before about Ces going into Lu's bedroom the day of her wedding. Why did he go to her room? To talk to her? Or something else? She wasn't there and he saw the seating board and that's when he got pissed looking at Lu's name beside Alf's and decided to rearrange it.
Ah, okay. Yeah, I didn't notice that part. I keep forgetting the scale of Lucrezia's bedroom. I always thought that was another room.

Oh, so you think he went there for some reason other than to look at the seating arrangements? And of course Alf knew immediately that Ces felt he could come and go whenever he pleased when he saw that board.
__________________
In Loving Memory of Christine Dettloff(cheekymonkey503). Rest In Peace, Dear Cheekymonkey. ~ Alex
PhoenixRising is offline  
Old 03-13-2019, 04:08 PM
  #56
Fan Forum Star

 
BL.Arinna_1982's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 128,249
I still think that they kept on with sleeping together...
__________________
Halo - Robsten - Edward/Bella - Paire
Love is a feeling...
BL.Arinna_1982 is offline  
Old 03-13-2019, 04:37 PM
  #57
Fan Forum Star

 
PhoenixRising's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 223,048
Quote:
Originally Posted by BL.Arinna_1982 (View Post)
I still think that they kept on with sleeping together...
I would hope so.
__________________
In Loving Memory of Christine Dettloff(cheekymonkey503). Rest In Peace, Dear Cheekymonkey. ~ Alex
PhoenixRising is offline  
Old 03-13-2019, 10:41 PM
  #58
Obsessed Fan

 
Mignonette's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 5,016
Quote:
Originally Posted by BL.Arinna_1982 (View Post)
I still think that they kept on with sleeping together...
I agree, Arinna. Otherwise, how do we explain the scene where he tells her he got the palace for her "to avoid prying eyes" and then she leads him off by the hand after telling him, "you know where the scandal is"? Where did they go? There were too many scenes of them suddenly alone together that seemed to come out of nowhere, leaving us to fill in the blanks.
Mignonette is offline  
Old 03-14-2019, 04:01 PM
  #59
Fan Forum Star

 
BL.Arinna_1982's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 128,249
Also, when she's casually at his bed in the middle of the night.
__________________
Halo - Robsten - Edward/Bella - Paire
Love is a feeling...
BL.Arinna_1982 is offline  
Old 03-14-2019, 05:10 PM
  #60
Fan Forum Star

 
PhoenixRising's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 223,048
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mignonette (View Post)
I agree, Arinna. Otherwise, how do we explain the scene where he tells her he got the palace for her "to avoid prying eyes" and then she leads him off by the hand after telling him, "you know where the scandal is"? Where did they go? There were too many scenes of them suddenly alone together that seemed to come out of nowhere, leaving us to fill in the blanks.
Ugh, I've been saying this myself, Lila. But the implication on the show is that if it is happening, it's all happening offscreen. That was torture.
__________________
In Loving Memory of Christine Dettloff(cheekymonkey503). Rest In Peace, Dear Cheekymonkey. ~ Alex
PhoenixRising is offline  
Closed Thread   Post New Thread

Bookmarks

Tags
couple, francois arnaud, television, the borgias


Forum Affiliates
Lotte Verbeek
Thread Tools



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:16 AM.

Fan Forum  |  Contact Us  |  Fan Forum on Twitter  |  Fan Forum on Facebook  |  Archive  |  Top

Powered by vBulletin, Copyright © 2000-2020.

Copyright © 1998-2019, Fan Forum.


TEST