The Borgias - {Cesare ♥ Lucrezia} #51 ~ "Last night brought you everything you could desire?" - Rodrigo on Lucrezia's night with Cesare - Page 4

**PhoenixRising** · 11-14-2018, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mignonette (View Post)

Hi Alex!

Alex, you know me well enough by now to know that I do not make statements about Ces & Lu without any basis, meaning I have pictures (lots) and quotes. I'm not obsessed at all!

Have you forgotten the pictures I posted several months ago of Alf watching Ces at the betrothal dance?

He definitely saw how Lu looked at Ces, but his eyes were focused on Ces the entire time:

You're right, he definitely noticed how they touched each other. He's watching their hands in this pic:

Hi, Lila!

Yes, I know you well and I know you don't make statements about them lightly.

And you don't have to yell.

But I'm glad you agree with me that Alf was watching both of them to see Lucrezia's responses to Cesare.

OMG, thanks for all the pics! They make good visual references.

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Originally Posted by Mignonette (View Post)

Yes! Absolutely! After watching them at the betrothal dance, he had to have assumed something was going on. Alf was royalty - so of course his family had heard the rumour! King Ferdinand even knew baby Giovanni was the son of a stable boy, but he needed an alliance with Rome badly enough to turn a blind eye to the incest rumour. When the king insisted on the public consummation, he even made a nasty comment to Rodrigo about Alf being an honorable man, "but your daughter..." and Ces almost took his head off, remember? That's why the king insisted on watching the consummation himself!

Ah, so Lucrezia not being honorable, according to Ferdinand, wasn't just about her having a child out of wedlock, but about the rumors about her and Ces?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mignonette (View Post)

And yes, Alf was very insecure cause of his uncle, etc, but remember also that he was only 17 and he was comparing himself to the extremely handsome, virile, and NOTORIOUS Cesar Borgia, who was rumoured to have killed his brother and ****** his sister! Holy crap! And to top it off:...Ces was TALL and NON-FURRY

Oh and Alf and Vanozza weren't the only ones at the dance who noticed Ces & Lu. Here's another pic of Alf laser-focused on Ces. Check out the old guy next to Alf who's also watching Ces:

And the two old guys who are looking at Alf as he watches the incestous way the siblings are dancing. The old guys look like they think Alf is a cockholded fool, which he was!

Everyone in Italy had heard the incest rumour and now they were seeing proof of it. Would you have assumed that rumour was true from watching them dancing? I would have!

.

Yeah, Alf being that young probably did play into his insecurities, along with his uncle constantly berating him. And OMG, I didn't even notice those other guys watching.

What perverts.

I guess Ces and Lu weren't as discreet as they may have thought.

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Originally Posted by Mignonette (View Post)

Yes, totally humiliating! Notice how Alf tried to protect his pride by playing ignorant. When Colonna said, "Not everyone can love like that", Alf asked, "Like what?" But it backfired on him when Colonna answered, "Like brother and sister". EVERYONE knew the incest rumour wayyyy before then. Alf KNEW, he just didn't WANT to know! To quote my favorite funny guy

Juan Borgia, when Rodrigo asked how could Ces have known Ludavico's army was on the move to Forli: Juan said, "How could he NOT have known?"

By the time Alf was drinking and challenging Ces, it wasn't even about jealousy any longer. It was about his wounded pride by Ces' humiliation of him. Anddddd (drumroll please!) the final humiliation was Ces making love to Lu beside Alf's bloodied corpse on the bed!

Ooooh, very good analogy between what Juan said about Cesare and Alfonso's suspicions about Ces and Lu.

I never even thought about that.

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Originally Posted by Mignonette (View Post)

Yes, he was totally devastated! He was sobbing in his bed!

That's why I said his reaction was EXTREME. It was wayyyy out of proportion to the seating board allies/enemies thing, which was only a molehill and not the point of the scene. The reason Alf made a mountain out of it and was devastated is because when he asked, "who would've done this?", Lu said, "Only my brother would've".

She was telling Alf that only Ces would've came into HER BEDROOM and placed her name under his and then place Alf's name all alone in the center of the board with a handwritten question mark on it. The message was MEANT FOR ALF to see: "She's always with me and loyal to me and you are nobody, a pawn, just a lonely question mark!" And Lu giggled when she told Alf that Ces did it! Alf knew he'd been just a pawn and Lu would never be his. Do you see it now?

Yes, I see.

Thanks, Lila. And was that her bedroom where the guest seating map was? I don't remember.

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Originally Posted by Mignonette (View Post)

And why was Ces in Lu's bedroom that evening anyway? You can see there are two place settings on the table - everything was ready for the newlyweds wedding night, so why was Ces there? He saw the seating board when he walked in, but that's not why he was there. Notice how angry he is and where he puts Lu's name on the board - under his:

Yes, Lu was the love of Alf's life! It didn't matter that he didn't really know her - HE WAS 17! Young, naive, idealistic, a virgin, sheltered, a BOY. We must look at this from a young boy's viewpoint, Alex, not from an experienced man's.

Alf fell in love with Lu before he even knew her name! When they first met, she was toying with him misleading him into thinking she was Lu's lady's maid. That was foreshadowing: he was falling in love and marrying a woman who was NOT who he thought she was! She was a consummate seducer by the time she met him, a FEMME FETALE in the making. And he was completely in love with her right to the very end. Remember when he was dying and he kept saying to Lu, "I never should have loved you! He's killed me, just as you both wanted! I never should have loved you!!"

Ah, so Ces was just dropping by her bedroom casually, huh?

I guess you could be right. I just question how anyone can really know when they're only 17, especially some kid who knows nothing about the world. If Alf really did think she was the love of his life then it's no wonder he ended up being devastated and turning to drink, because perhaps an older man would've seen the situation for what it was and not been so naïve.

I'm surprised those two brothers who were both interested in Lucrezia couldn't tell that her heart was compromised.

Mignonette · 11-14-2018, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BL.Arinna_1982 (View Post)

Of course everybody knew about the rumor, even Lucrezia. I don'n know about Cesare, but she knew for sure. And when she got sick of everything, including Alf, she went straight to Cesare's room. Probably she thought why the heck not now???

Hi Arinna!

I'm sure Ces knew about the rumour. He wasn't the least bit surprised when Lu mentioned it. Plus, he had spies everywhere and his ear to the ground. Alf's tantrum was just the excuse Lu used to do what she really wanted: go to bed with her brother. I believe Ces arranged the seating board in Lu & Alf's bedroom the way he did to play head games with Alf by making him feel intimidated and threatened. I think Ces wanted to cause problems in their relationship - to drive a wedge between them. He couldn't contain his jealous anger knowing that Alf would be bedding Lu that night, their wedding night, in that room. He felt helpless at not having Lu for himself, not convincing the king to allow her baby, and for Rodrigo's insistence on Lu's re-marriage because of his killing of Sforza..

I'm still annoyed at the writers for making it seem like Lu went to Ces cause she felt unloved by Alf. I understand they were using ambiguity, but it was just bad writing, imo. She asks Ces 3 times in one week, "Am I so hard to love?" When he returned after the king refused to let her baby go to Naples, when she was naked and trying to get him to kiss her, and when she got into his bed on her wedding night. The writing made it seem on the surface that she felt unloved and rejected, but that wasn't the reason.

The reason she kept asking Ces (and no one else) is that she wanted him to declare and act on his romantic/sexual love for her. She already knew no one would ever love her like he did and she was goading him into action, even using tears to pull at his heart. Finally she'd had enough and forced him to touch her by putting his hands on her breasts and bringing up the subject of incest herself. I wonder what diabolical maneuver she would've used on him if that hadn't worked? I'm picturing him tied up in bed with her holding a

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhoenixRising (View Post)

Yes, I know you well and I know you don't make statements about them lightly.

And you don't have to yell.

But I'm glad you agree with me that Alf was watching both of them to see Lucrezia's responses to Cesare.

OMG, thanks for all the pics! They make good visual references.

Hi Alex!

Oh do you mean my emphasis on certain words? Or do you mean you could hear me yelling in your mind as you were reading cause I'm so passionate in my writing about Ces & Lu?

Your welcome for the pictures; I literally have hundreds!

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhoenixRising (View Post)

Ah, so Lucrezia not being honorable, according to Ferdinand, wasn't just about her having a child out of wedlock, but about the rumors about her and Ces?

.

Yes, I think he could've had suspicions about Giovanni being Ces' child cause a king would certainly have heard the rumour. And then Lu not sleeping with Alf after the wedding when Ces was right there living in the same place.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhoenixRising (View Post)

Ooooh, very good analogy between what Juan said about Cesare and Alfonso's suspicions about Ces and Lu.

I never even thought about that.

And was that her bedroom where the guest seating map was? I don't remember.

Ah, so Ces was just dropping by her bedroom casually, huh?

Thanks, Alex!

And yes, the seating board was in her private sitting room & bedroom, where she and Alf would spend their wedding night. The same bedroom btw where she'd gotten naked and seduced her brother just a few days prior. Oh Alf...

Ces knew that seating board was in her room, cause that's where he'd kissed her earlier that week. It's possible he purposely went there just to mess with Alf's head, knowing he'd see what he'd done to the board. Or maybe he'd went to spend time alone with Lu, saw the board and decided in that moment to mess with Alf. Anyway, Ces had a habit of just showing up in Lu's room and spending time with her there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhoenixRising (View Post)

I guess you could be right. I just question how anyone can really know when they're only 17, especially some kid who knows nothing about the world. If Alf really did think she was the love of his life then it's no wonder he ended up being devastated and turning to drink, because perhaps an older man would've seen the situation for what it was and not been so naïve.

I'm surprised those two brothers who were both interested in Lucrezia couldn't tell that her heart was compromised.

Great point about an older man not being as naive as Alf

Yeah, that's exactly why Alf turned to drink and kept challenging Ces. The brothers didn't spend much time with her and Lu was so horny for the blonde one that she had him in a daze.

**BL.Arinna_1982** · 11-15-2018, 02:23 PM

I kinda knew that she would be the one initiating it.

Mignonette · 11-15-2018, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BL.Arinna_1982 (View Post)

I kinda knew that she would be the one initiating it.

I thought so, too, Arinna! Like how she seduced the blonde brother, who btw, I must say was really hot!

**PhoenixRising** · 11-15-2018, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mignonette (View Post)

Hi Alex!

Oh do you mean my emphasis on certain words? Or do you mean you could hear me yelling in your mind as you were reading cause I'm so passionate in my writing about Ces & Lu?

Your welcome for the pictures; I literally have hundreds!

Hi, Lila!

No, I mean all the exclamation points!!!

But yeah, you are passionate about it.

And I figured you have a lot of those pics.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mignonette (View Post)

Yes, I think he could've had suspicions about Giovanni being Ces' child cause a king would certainly have heard the rumour. And then Lu not sleeping with Alf after the wedding when Ces was right there living in the same place.

Oh, so Ferdinand might've even suspected something about Giovanni as well, huh? He did say that the father is "unknown," and we do know that Paolo's hanging wasn't exactly a secret. And yes, her not sleeping with Alf was probably another dead giveaway.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mignonette (View Post)

Thanks, Alex!

And yes, the seating board was in her private sitting room & bedroom, where she and Alf would spend their wedding night. The same bedroom btw where she'd gotten naked and seduced her brother just a few days prior. Oh Alf...

Ces knew that seating board was in her room, cause that's where he'd kissed her earlier that week. It's possible he purposely went there just to mess with Alf's head, knowing he'd see what he'd done to the board. Or maybe he'd went to spend time alone with Lu, saw the board and decided in that moment to mess with Alf. Anyway, Ces had a habit of just showing up in Lu's room and spending time with her there.

You're welcome, Lila!

Ah, okay. I couldn't remember where the seating board was because that room was so dark, and I remember Lu's bedroom being well lit up when she tried to seduce Cesare with her nakedness.

But Cesare did have a penchant for thinking that he could just enter that room whenever he wanted to... well, he did knock first.

But if Lu wasn't there, he'd just go inside.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mignonette (View Post)

Great point about an older man not being as naive as Alf

Yeah, that's exactly why Alf turned to drink and kept challenging Ces. The brothers didn't spend much time with her and Lu was so horny for the blonde one that she had him in a daze.

Thanks, Lila.

Yep, I do think that Alf's youth and naivete was part of his downfall. Man, you're right when you think about it. None of Lucrezia's other suitors really did spend much time with her, so they didn't end up being made as insecure as Alfonso was.

**BL.Arinna_1982** · 11-16-2018, 02:18 PM

**PhoenixRising** · 11-16-2018, 04:05 PM

Love that scene!

Mignonette · 11-16-2018, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BL.Arinna_1982 (View Post)

OMG Arinna, love that gif! I want it as my avi

Yep, she's only showing her foot to him, nothing else, nope..

Look at her face

She knows exactly how to get to him

**BL.Arinna_1982** · 11-17-2018, 02:23 PM

And he was ready to jump on her

**PhoenixRising** · 11-17-2018, 03:01 PM

Hi, Lila!

Oh yeah, the seduction by foot worship really seemed to work on Cesare.

She only gave him her foot and toes, and teased him with everything else that was barely covered up.

Mignonette · 11-18-2018, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhoenixRising (View Post)

Hi, Lila!

Oh yeah, the seduction by foot worship really seemed to work on Cesare.

She only gave him her foot and toes, and teased him with everything else that was barely covered up.

Hi Alex!

What she was showing him there when she lifted her leg wasn't covered up at all

**BL.Arinna_1982** · 11-18-2018, 02:22 PM

**PhoenixRising** · 11-18-2018, 04:21 PM

Love those gifs, Arinna!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mignonette (View Post)

Hi Alex!

What she was showing him there when she lifted her leg wasn't covered up at all

Hi, Lila!

Ohhhh, now you're the one with the dirty mind.

You think her foot wasn't enough to entice him? You think she was showing him something else that was just slightly off camera?

**BL.Arinna_1982** · 11-19-2018, 02:38 PM

I know you do.

Mignonette · 11-20-2018, 02:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhoenixRising (View Post)

You think her foot wasn't enough to entice him?

Idk, Alex, her foot might have been extremely sexy or maybe Ces had a foot fetish and all he needed to get aroused were her naughty little feet and toes

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Fan Forum > TV Shows - Past > The Borgias > {Cesare ♥ Lucrezia} #51 ~ "Last night brought you everything you could desire?" - Rodrigo on Lucrezia's night with Cesare