[BL.Arinna_1982]

Originally Posted by Mignonette (View Post) Her look seems to say: And speaking of scandal, let's go make some more...

I have the feeling that they did it.

[PhoenixRising]

Of course they did, Arinna.

[BL.Arinna_1982]

[PhoenixRising]

Awww, their first scene!

[BL.Arinna_1982]

That's the scene Laureter thought I was gonna like.

[PhoenixRising]

That was back when Lauren still watched the show and posted here.

[BL.Arinna_1982]

Yeah, but she told me then to watch only the first ten minutes of the show and I'm gonna love it.

[PhoenixRising]

Oh, because of the Cesare/Lucrezia scene, huh? Figures.

[BL.Arinna_1982]

Yes.

[Mignonette]

Originally Posted by PhoenixRising (View Post) Wow, you really do love mentioning how he kissed her while wearing armor. So I guess that was a metaphor, huh?

Hi Alex! School has kept me very busy lately, so I've not had a chance to visit here till today.

Yes, I do keep returning to the armour scene, don't I? I believe it was THE PIVOTAL MOMENT that turned & changed Ces & Lu's relationship forever! And I don't believe he would've had the - sorry I don't know the word in english, not courage..idk..so I'll use the idiom - balls to kiss her without the empowerment he felt wearing the armour.

Oh yes, I meant it as a metaphor and also literally, cause the armour provided a physical barrier between his body & hers (as when she stroked his breastplate, not his actual skin). In season 1, it was her innocence (her virginity) that kept him from acting on his lust for her, right? We’ve talked before about how he needed her to be "of the purest white" (to quote him in s1e1). He skirted the edge of acting on his lust, but never crossed the line, til he kissed her in the armoury. She felt his heart's desire in that moment: that not only was he completely in love with her, but wanted her (sexually) so much that he was willing to commit incest & risk everything for it. His willingness to show her that he knew what was at stake ("We are the UNHOLY (incest) family"), but would go there anyway with her, cause he couldn't fight it any longer. I believe it's what emboldened her to seduce him in her bedroom later that day.

Without that armour, figuratively & literally, I really don't think he wouldn't have kissed her and we might've had a very different story

[BL.Arinna_1982]

I don't think they would've kissed in that point of time. It was just the teasing part from the both sides. I also think though, that Lu had started her plan already. After all, she told him that she's heard the rumors about them, So, at one point she probably thought... well, why the heck not??

[Mignonette]

Originally Posted by BL.Arinna_1982 (View Post) I don't think they would've kissed in that point of time. It was just the teasing part from the both sides. I also think though, that Lu had started her plan already. After all, she told him that she's heard the rumors about them, So, at one point she probably thought... well, why the heck not??

I think so too, Arinna. And believe that Lu started thinking seriously about becoming lovers at the end of season 2 after Ces killed Juan, when she asked Ces to marry her while they were lying together on her bed. I think she knew exactly how he would take that question, because she had a really mischievous look when she asked it. I think she was testing him, trying to see if he'd be receptive to taking things further.

She knew the main reason Ces killed Juan was out of love for her. He'd threatened her baby & remember in the opium den when he talked about his long-held suspicion that she & Ces were lovers? I believe Lu & Ces were both aware of Juan's suspicions and that it was a big motive for Ces to kill him - he'd have caused a big scandal for the family. People already whispered about incest, but if a Borgia family member made it public, the rumour would be confirmed.

I also believe Rodrigo had to suspect incest, because he was very astute - he knew everything, so how could he not suspect with the rumour flying around & when even dim-witted Juan suspected? I think it was a big reason Rodrigo sent Juan away to Spain after Juan blew up at him in front of Ces, Lu, & Vanozza - the scene when Rodrigo crawled over the table ready to hit him. Juan got in Rodrigo's face & taunted him, making an indirect reference to the incest when he said "your PERFECT family" & that he needed to be careful if he's to see his daughter married again.

Subtext was HUGE in this show. Which is why I've said the writing was often brilliant = the ambiguity, requiring the viewer to read between the lines, the use of insinuation, but most of all SUBTEXT! Sadly though, I think the writers often overestimated the ability of the audience to always get the subtext, so that many times things were too subtle between Ces & Lu and scenes seemed disjointed. Writers can't afford to be so self-indulgent.

Back to our couple: They'd always tiptoed around the idea of having sex, so I think she needed to be sure of how'd he react before she went any further. She did the same kind of testing when she was naked for him in her bedroom when she tricked him into admitting his sexual desire for her: Alf won't touch me..you have the means to change that..are you sure? I'm certain..BOOM! She pulled him down onto the bed as soon as she was sure he'd go for it. A girl doesn't like being rejected. She needed assurance.

[PhoenixRising]

You make a good point, Arinna.

Hi, Lila! Aww, it's okay. We understand that school has started so a lot of posters are gonna be busy. Just come here whenever you have time. I hope you're doing well with your studies!

Yes, you do. I actually thought that the scene where she tried to seduce him was the pivotal one, but I guess you're right that the armory scene is what instigated her seduction in the first place. Oh, and perhaps the word you were looking for is fortitude? But guts, balls, nerve, all work just as well.

Originally Posted by Mignonette (View Post) Oh yes, I meant it as a metaphor and also literally, cause the armour provided a physical barrier between his body & hers (as when she stroked his breastplate, not his actual skin). In season 1, it was her innocence (her virginity) that kept him from acting on his lust for her, right? We’ve talked before about how he needed her to be "of the purest white" (to quote him in s1e1). He skirted the edge of acting on his lust, but never crossed the line, til he kissed her in the armoury. She felt his heart's desire in that moment: that not only was he completely in love with her, but wanted her (sexually) so much that he was willing to commit incest & risk everything for it. His willingness to show her that he knew what was at stake ("We are the UNHOLY (incest) family"), but would go there anyway with her, cause he couldn't fight it any longer. I believe it's what emboldened her to seduce him in her bedroom later that day. Without that armour, figuratively & literally, I really don't think he wouldn't have kissed her and we might've had a very different story

Ah, yes. I see what you mean there. So her innocence acted as a kind of armor for herself, didn't it? But I think that by that time, Lucrezia's innocence had been replaced by an inner strength after having had to put up with Sforza, falling in love with Paolo and then losing him, having a child, and even sitting on the throne of St. Peter's while her father was away, all empowered her so that by the time Cesare pulled that stunt where he kissed her in the armory, she was like, "Oh no, he's not pulling away from me this time. This time he's mine."

[Mignonette]

Originally Posted by PhoenixRising (View Post) Hi, Lila! Aww, it's okay. We understand that school has started so a lot of posters are gonna be busy. Just come here whenever you have time. I hope you're doing well with your studies! Yes, you do. I actually thought that the scene where she tried to seduce him was the pivotal one, but I guess you're right that the armory scene is what instigated her seduction in the first place. Oh, and perhaps the word you were looking for is fortitude? But guts, balls, nerve, all work just as well. Ah, yes. I see what you mean there. So her innocence acted as a kind of armor for herself, didn't it? But I think that by that time, Lucrezia's innocence had been replaced by an inner strength after having had to put up with Sforza, falling in love with Paolo and then losing him, having a child, and even sitting on the throne of St. Peter's while her father was away, all empowered her so that by the time Cesare pulled that stunt where he kissed her in the armory, she was like, "Oh no, he's not pulling away from me this time. This time he's mine."

Hi Alex! Thanks for the encouragement

Yes, fortitude! That's the word, thanks!

Yeah, Lu was definitely a stronger, more determined woman after all she'd been through. She was focused on making things work with Alf, cause Rodrigo didn't give her much choice when he demanded that she remarry.

But when Ces kissed her, she forgot all about old Alfie and went after what she truly wanted - her brother. She was so determined to have him that not only did she undress & lure him into her bedroom, but kept trying to entice him into moving on her. First by having him caress her foot while showing him uh..something else, then pulling his ass down onto the bed with her, but he still wouldn't make a move! So she squeezed out a tear saying she felt unloved, knowing how that would make him feel. But still the boy was reluctant, so finally in her exasperation, she taunted him "you look but don't touch" while wrapping her hand around his neck & pulling his face to hers. She was a woman on a mission!

[BL.Arinna_1982]

She even wanted her marriage to be the one of a soul.