[Mignonette]

Originally Posted by BL.Arinna_1982 (View Post) He has lots of.. hair.

It's disgusting He's an actor, so you'd think he'd have heard of waxing? Why would an actor show his furry butt like that? It's a huge turn off for women, except for possibly 1 or 2 that have a fur fetish It's a good thing Lucrezia wasn't wearing rings or bracelets that could get caught in that stuff. She'd never find them again

Originally Posted by PhoenixRising (View Post) So having adjoining homes was both their idea? And this was before Alfonso's death? Yeah, I did know that Cesare's alliance with France is what really got under Alfonso's skin, but the show made it seem like Lu was concerned about Alfonso because of that. Did she even care in real life, or did she like the idea of her taking over Naples herself? Oh, and that adjoining house was there when she was married to Giovanni Sforza too, huh? Yeah, Lucrezia did cheat on her third husband a lot, so I'm sure Cesare wasn't worried about him. Oh, so that's why Sforza got out while the getting was good? I did hear something about Giovanni being afraid that Cesare was going to have him killed or something. Yeah, the timing of Lucrezia's pregnancy has always been confusing to me. Awww, Giovanni ran to his cousin, Ludovico, asking for help? Wow, he must've been terrified. Yeah, I guess it would make sense for Cesare and Rodrigo to hatch a plan together, although do you really think that Lucrezia was also in on it? Ohhh, so the first bull was made when the baby was already 3 years old. And the one stating that Rodrigo was the father and that the child was by one of his mistresses was never made public and Rodrigo kept it hidden? Yeah, all that stuff does make sense. So who found that bull in Rodrigo's desk, Cesare? Or was it used by someone else to discredit the Borgia family by implying incest between Lu and her father because of that second bull? I'll get back to the rest of your post later.

Hi Alex! Yes, both wanted the adjoining house and Lucrezia kept it even after Alfonso was murdered and she went to live in Ferrara. She knew Cesare was responsible for his death, but continued to be very close and loving with him, so how much could she have really cared for Alfonso?

I don't remember who found the bull in Rodrigo's desk. Both bulls were dated on the same day in 1501, when Giovanni was 3. Why didn't he issue bulls of paternity for his other illegitimate children born when he was pope? Or for Cesare's other illegitimate children? Why was the one claiming Rodrigo was Giovanni's father locked away hidden and only found after he died? I think it was to cause confusion and lessen the scandal around Lucrezia. She was covered in scandal! Incest with Cesare, being the mother of baby Giovanni, Sforza accusing Rodrigo of incest with her, Juan's murder, and then Alfonso's murder. But when she was successfully married to d'Este, there was no need to use the second bull.

[BL.Arinna_1982]

Cesare looked way better.

[Mignonette]

Originally Posted by BL.Arinna_1982 (View Post) Cesare looked way better.

Cesare looks better than 99% of men, especially naked, Arinna!

After having him, Lucrezia must have looked at Alfonso and thought "uh no"

Originally Posted by PhoenixRising (View Post) Okay, now I remember that episode. I seem to only remember the incest and everything else is a blur.

Alex! Yeah, after their hot incest sex scene in Siblings, everything else was a blur

The consummation scene in Banquet of Chestnuts was super erotic though. It's the hottest ever sex scene without any touching & I'm not counting Alf, cause in her mind, it was Cesare ******* her.

OMG Cesare actually had an orgasm just sitting there watching her as they both relived their night together. How he tried not to make a sound or move - he sat there motionless except for his face. He climaxed with her using just his eyes and mind to communicate with her. Another poster here said he was commanding her and mouthed "YES" telling her to climax with him, and it's true - he did!! Just WOW.

He then had to get up and face Ferdinand with um..his pants situation Poor Cesare, he looked stunned in disbelief at what had happened His passion for her was like nothing he'd ever experienced - he was in shock! It must've been excruciating for him to not have her.

That scene really showed their intense spiritual bond and that NOTHING could come between them, not even Cesare seeing another man literally inside her body. Bravo to the writers!

[PhoenixRising]

Hi, Lila! I know, right? All I can really remember from that episode are the Ces/Lu scenes and not much else.

Yeah, I liked the eye sex between Ces and Lu in The Banquet of Chestnuts, but I really didn't like Alfonso being there. That ruined it for me. That's why I really wish we'd had another sex scene with Ces and Lu so we could enjoy having that one last moment with the two of them before the show ended. OMG, you think that Ces was commanding her to climax as they were looking at each other?

Oh yeah, Ces probably should've stayed seated for a few minutes after that. But then, I guess that's what the codpieces were for. Yeah, bravo to the writers who weren't named Neil Jordan. I couldn't decide which was better, Cesare watching Lucrezia or Giulia holding that banquet orgy. All in all a pretty overwhelming episode.

[Mignonette]

Originally Posted by PhoenixRising (View Post) Hi, Lila! I know, right? All I can really remember from that episode are the Ces/Lu scenes and not much else. Yeah, I liked the eye sex between Ces and Lu in The Banquet of Chestnuts, but I really didn't like Alfonso being there. That ruined it for me. That's why I really wish we'd had another sex scene with Ces and Lu so we could enjoy having that one last moment with the two of them before the show ended. OMG, you think that Ces was commanding her to climax as they were looking at each other? Oh yeah, Ces probably should've stayed seated for a few minutes after that. But then, I guess that's what the codpieces were for. Yeah, bravo to the writers who weren't named Neil Jordan. I couldn't decide which was better, Cesare watching Lucrezia or Giulia holding that banquet orgy. All in all a pretty overwhelming episode.

Well Guila was my girl for that piece of ingenuity, but nothing compares to Cesare and Lucrezia having any kind of sex. The more, the better!

Yeah, it was hard not to block out Alfonso's icky furry presence and I hated the thought of him touching her. She belonged to Cesare! I felt sorriest for him, because he had to watch another man do that to her, knowing he was helpless to stop it.

the codpiece I'm sure was a blessing right there. Yeah, Cesare had to face Ferdinand right after, but at least it was dark . Did you see how he lingered just looking at Lucrezia's naked body through the screen after Ferdinand left? He lingered as long as he could before her maid came into the room. Even with his pants situation, he could barely take himself away from her.

Yes, he was absolutely commanding her Right before he leaned forward, he closed his eyes trying to block out what he was seeing. But he realized that was selfish and she needed him to be present with her. She was grimacing when Alfonso started uh..So Cesare opened his eyes and leaned forward, staring at her & mentally commanded her to open her eyes and look at him. You can see him thinking "LOOK AT ME!" He was looking only at her face. She opened her eyes upon his command, and never took them off his face until the end. He was biting his lip, because he was getting aroused and felt ashamed for it. But he couldn't fight his arousal, so he gave in and was panting and gasping to avoid moaning. He had both fists clenched and sat still as a statue.

When Lucrezia looked over her shoulder at him while letting her gown slide off, his jaw dropped He wasn't expecting that, and her doing that sent him the message that it was him she was going to be making love with.

She was panting & looking at him with a questioning look when she was on the brink of climaxing, waiting for him to tell her yes. And a second later, he did. You can see him clearly say "YES!" and they both climax together. So yes, he was completely in charge of her. Wasn't he always? It's like Arinna said here:

Originally Posted by BL.Arinna_1982 (View Post) I loved how he pulled her away from Alfonso and she just went with him like... that's a law.

Cesare was always the boss of Lucrezia She was his prisoner, chained, a bird in his cage. There were so many metaphors about this in the show. He told her "you'd be happier if I kept you here in chains", when she first married Sforza.

Even when she wasn't happy about his decisions, she did what he told her. The consummation, trying to love her husband, everything. He was such a caveman - women love that, as long as we know he truly loves us and wants our happiness, he can boss us as much as he wants! Some women might prefer a wimp like Alfonso, because they like to be the boss, but feminine women like strong men like Cesare.

[BL.Arinna_1982]

... and then he did what he promised when she was married to Alfonso.

[Mignonette]

Originally Posted by BL.Arinna_1982 (View Post) ... and then he did what he promised when she was married to Alfonso.

Hi Arinna! Do you mean his promise to make her happy? As in killing Alfonso & making her his? Yeah, he did make her happy. When he said “mine”, she forgot all about Alfonso’s dead body laying next to her

[PhoenixRising]

Hi, Lila! Arinna already went to bed.

I loved Giulia as well. She's the one who taught Lucrezia how to kiss.

Yeah, I guess even eye sex with Ces and Lu is pretty awesome. But I still would rather not have to put up with Alf's fuzz. I felt bad for Cesare, but it was still a situation that was Alfonso's fault. He should've told his uncle that he had no business asking him about what goes on in his and Lu's bedroom. But Alf didn't have the guts to do that. And yeah, I did notice that Ces kept looking at Lu through the screen even after it was over. When she let her dress fall to the floor he was probably in agony. He wanted to kill Ferdinand right then and there.

I'll get to the rest of your post soon, Lila.

[BL.Arinna_1982]

I meant he kept her in chains, sort to speak, in Rome. She liked it!

[Mignonette]

Originally Posted by BL.Arinna_1982 (View Post) I meant he kept her in chains, sort to speak, in Rome. She liked it!

Ok, I understand, Arinna Yes, she was always his prisoner and she liked being chained to him! She said she was like the caged bird that she bought in The Prince, cause she was irritated at being followed around by Cesare's men. But moments later, she was whistling happily to the bird. And she never once tried to elude the men or escape Cesare.

I wonder about the conversation with her mother about taking her and the baby and leaving Rome. Vanozza reminded her that she loved her father & brother, and Lucrezia said "love can be another chain in this Borgia family", to which Vanozza told her "go home, you brood too much".

It always felt like Vanozza suspected Cesare & Lucrezia were more than siblings. Maybe it's why she dismissed her complaints so easily. She knew Lucrezia was just venting and would never leave him..

[BL.Arinna_1982]

I think Cesare understood this as well. This is why he was planning to put her on the throne in Naples. She was an active woman!

[Mignonette]

Originally Posted by BL.Arinna_1982 (View Post) I think Cesare understood this as well. This is why he was planning to put her on the throne in Naples. She was an active woman!

I agree, Arinna He told Machieavelli that she was the most capable person he knew and then called her "a professional" when she poisoned Alfonso.

She was an active woman, but Cesare was her boss. Like you said, Arinna, she ALWAYS did what he told her (commanded her really) like it's a law!

IRL also, he bossed her and she did whatever he said. When she was pregnant and very sick, he rode for 2 days straight, leaving his army behind, to be at her side. She'd refused to be bled (she didn't believe in it), but Cesare said "Do it!", so she did. He comforted her by holding and caressing her foot, and speaking affectionately to her in their secret version of Catalan that they'd created together as children

[PhoenixRising]

Hi, Lila! OMG, Cesare did that when pregnant and sick? He rode all that way for her? But I didn't know she ordered him around. She really had him by the , didn't she?

I don't know if Lucrezia was literally Cesare's prisoner, but I wouldn't be surprised if she liked being tied up in bed. And OMG, you made a great point about Vanozza! I didn't even think about Lucrezia's quote about how love can be another chain, but Vanozza told her to go home and that she broods too much.

I also thought that Vanozza suspected Ces and Lu. I kept telling everyone after season 2 ended that the way Vanozza looked at Cesare and Lucrezia dancing made it seem like she saw something going on. She already knew how much Cesare loved her, but then she saw the same thing in Lucrezia.

[Mignonette]

Originally Posted by PhoenixRising (View Post) Hi, Lila! OMG, Cesare did that when pregnant and sick? He rode all that way for her? But I didn't know she ordered him around. She really had him by the , didn't she? I don't know if Lucrezia was literally Cesare's prisoner, but I wouldn't be surprised if she liked being tied up in bed. And OMG, you made a great point about Vanozza! I didn't even think about Lucrezia's quote about how love can be another chain, but Vanozza told her to go home and that she broods too much. I also thought that Vanozza suspected Ces and Lu. I kept telling everyone after season 2 ended that the way Vanozza looked at Cesare and Lucrezia dancing made it seem like she saw something going on. She already knew how much Cesare loved her, but then she saw the same thing in Lucrezia.

Hi Alex! Yes, Cesare rode over 100 miles out of his way, on an already hard journey, to Ferrara TWICE in September, 1502, to see Lucrezia when she was pregnant and very sick. On the second visit, she was recovering after miscarrying the baby. He spent the entire night alone with her in her bedroom - no kidding. Servants overheard them speaking a strange form of Catalan - the secret language they used from childhood when they wanted privacy. Did I mention her husband was far away from home at the time?

I've always wondered if he made the second visit because it was his baby she'd just lost? Alex, you know I believe Giovanni was theirs, and possibly others Anyway, that's my opinion, but the rest is historical fact and shows how incredibly close they were. Sadly, this was the last time they would ever see each other

No, Lucrezia didn't boss Cesare around. What I said was HE bossed HER around and she did whatever he told her. She didn't have him by the balls, but she did have him by the **** Yeah, I can see her enjoying being tied up by him, but I'm sure she enjoyed everything he did to her in bed

Alex, I agree Vanozza knew something was going on with them. She watched them sometimes, like you said she did at the betrothal dance. When Cesare tells Lucrezia in church that she'll never marry if he can help it, Vanozza is sitting behind and to the side, watching them. When Juan is giving the toast after Lucrezia drops the chandelier on him, she and Cesare are having eye sex and Vanozza's watching them. She catches Cesare's attention and gives him a "be careful" look glancing towards Juan. I always felt she was closest to Cesare.

[BL.Arinna_1982]

I actually knew about that story. How he left his army in the middle of the battlefield just to be with her. No one as close to her as he was.