Fan Forum - {Cesare ♥ Lucrezia} #50 ~ Celebrating 50 Threads of Fulfilling their "Want and Wanting" Game

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{Cesare ♥ Lucrezia} #50 ~ Celebrating 50 Threads of Fulfilling their "Want and Wanting" Game

Welcome to the 50th
Cesare ღ Lucrezia
Appreciation Thread

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If you are a fan and not yet on the list, let us know and you'll be added immediately.

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1. ~Phoenix~
2. ღEmrys
3. Neda16
4. xKarlaCruz
5. Andra
6. MademoisellePaulina
7. Enigma
8. Chrissalaugha
9. Vanora
10. DUHsoTK
11. claire_bear2007
12. foreverafter12
13. memory91
14. Clockwork Angel
15. BL.Arinna_1982
16. CloisFan
17. Roxy87
18. bbertocchi
19. MYM86
20. Rickylious
21. - Nina -
22. Hugo
23. x0x0gossipgirl
24. ~Amarula~
25. ~Trick~
26. Panettones
27. Let The Ball Drop
28. LHScott
29. Armonia
30. Butterflygirl
31. Maud&Danny
32. Anahid
33. JaSam4Life
34. lalagrl23
35. DGSAFDMD
36. Thespianreveur
37. Serenachan
38. TheMovieGrrl
39. BELLA012
40. psychee
41. perfangel5655
42. sweet charity
43. sprezzatura
44. Elenwyn
45. PhoenixRising
46. xinya
47. i.am.andie
48. britnik
49. Bronson
50. miss vieira
51. hollidaygraingerfan
52. deathly_smirk
53. cahe64
54. HP-Skins
55. bijou156
56. Roon
57. Katja82
58. Cathangel
59. NYPoster
60. cheekymonkey503
61. Seriu
62. Fredz
63. argivi
64. Beccaa
65. breaking silence
66. obiwancannolis
67. Paige Dakota
68. carriebess
69. prettyinpink90
70. Ifyou'reabird,I'mabird
71. waterinks
72. RXQueen
73. rochey
74. Ali2011
75. darkphoenix_
76. Brightlights
77. KRL2008
78. Kisara
79. Lambinclouds
80. allisonmarae
81. amschafe
82. Trystan1540
83. charl_huntress
84. Lucresiare
85. Borgia1
86. Lucrezia Borgia
87. AlwaysCB
88. Fay the Greek
89. Calini
90. Oncer4Ever
91. mohindy
92. were-dinosaur
93. SWDW
94. Kylebraxtonisthebest
95. sourburst
96. fractured moonlight
97. hilery00
98. Telepath
99. De Medici Queen
100. Nailju (Maria)
101. beautiful connection ♥
102. 4brathan&brucas
103. untilwemeetagain
104. LindaL100
105. Mignonette

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Credit

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1. Any ship with its own love theme screams "True Love"
2. No couple can make nose-bumping a major turn-on
3. Because he only smiles when he's with her
4. Because even dinner knives ship them
5. Because he constantly misses her
6. Because if anything happens to her, he'd die
7. Because if it's up to him, she'll never marry
8. Because they're like Abelard and Heloise
9. Because any other couple on the show who think they're like Abelard and Heloise are F.A.K.E.
10. Because she'll never love a husband like she loves him
11. Because "I should keep you here in chains. I suspect you would be happier." And so would we!
12. Because she misses his hands and he misses her face.
13. Because he'll never forgive her scumbag husband.
14. Because killing her husband is easy and Cesare doesn't want easy.
15. Because he's the first person in the family to hold her baby.
16. Because she doesn't need her baby-daddy when Cesare is around
17. Because he was pacing like a true father-to-be when she went into labor
18. Because she'll always have him
19. Because even history ships them. They're so canon.
20. Because he carried her over the threshold on her wedding night
21. Because they're the ideal lovers.

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Credit

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Credit

Fanvids
My Love | My Heart | Sweet Lavina | Flames | Ships | You're In My Veins | Under The Sheets

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Fanfiction
The Ideal - Recommendations on tumblr
Dark Paradise - A (hopefully) Comprehsive Borgias Fanfiction List

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Links
Cesare ♥ Lucrezia on tumblr
Absolutely Enraptured on livejournal

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Credit

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"If you read the history, you find these two, this brother and sister, were utterly fascinated by each other. . . ." -- Neil Jordan, TVGuide.ca
". . . it's a story about two people who are absolutely enraptured with each other." -- Neil Jordan, TVGuide.ca
"I kind of want them to be almost the ideal lovers if they were not brother and sister . . . it's so protective as to being almost dangerous." (from Showtime clip, "Justified")
"I think we chose to play pure love." -- Francois Arnaud, nymag.com
"I think Holliday [Grainger, who plays Lucrezia] and I had a really strong chemistry from the start, and I just really enjoy working with her." -- Francois Arnaud, nymag.com
"There is a deep love and affection...They always have their hands in each other’s faces, but it is innocent.” -- Francois Arnaud, antcomic.com
"You must promise you'll be gentle, for this is love, not war, we are engaging in, my dear brother." -- Lucrezia, The Family
"...you, my dear sister, may teach me more about love and loyalty than I have learned so far..." -- Cesare, The Family
Though in every other instance [Cesare] was the aggressor, with [Lucrezia] - even here- he seemed under her power. -- The Family
"I can't imagine loving anyone as I love you in this moment." Lucrezia, The Family
"Come," [Cesare] said, drawing [Lucrezia] close. "I need you now. For you are what is real in my life." -- The Family
"It is not the pain of your kisses you see," she said. "They are the tears of my longing for you." -- Lucrezia, The Family
C: "To bed him is not the joy it is with me?" L: "My dear love, it is the difference between heaven and hell for me." -- The Family
"There will never be anyone like you for me, for you were my first love." -- Lucrezia to Cesare, The Family
"It was with you I first shared the secrets of my body, as well as the secrets of my heart and the most intimate thoughts of my mind." -- L to C, The Family
Suddenly the sweet face of his sister appeared, and he saw it as a sign, a symbol of their love. -- The Family
Her face had been the vision he'd followed into his victories. -- The Family
"I wish no barrier between us, my brother, my lover, my friend." -- Lucrezia, The Family
"...from this night on, all that is left of my passion will rest with you." -- L to C, The Family
"You must live for me... For what other reason should I live?" -- C to L, The Family
L: "Don't you love God, Cesare?" C: "More than I love you?" -- The Poisoned Chalice
L: "And when will I marry?" C: "Never, if I can help it." -- The Poisoned Chalice
"If anything happened to her... I'd die." -- Cesare, The Poisoned Chalice
L: "I think I shall never have another friend like him." C: "You'll always have me." -- The Moor
"If you hate beauty, dear sis, you must hate yourself." -- Cesare, The French King
L: "I've missed those hands." C: "And I've missed that face." -- Nessuno

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Credit: May

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~Quotes~

Lucrezia: "Don't hate me."
Cesare: "I regret many feelings towards you, hate is not one of them."

Cesare: "The whole world whispers, you and I are lovers. Should we prove them right?"

Lucrezia: "I want to die, brother."
Cesare: "Will you not talk like that, please!"

Cesare: "Can I hold him?"
Lucrezia: "And wake him? That would be cruelty indeed."
Cesare: "I must hold you then."

Lucrezia: "But we never before had secrets between us."
Cesare: "Some things are better left unsaid."
Lucrezia: "So I must divine then, the dark cloud on my brother's soul."

Cesare: "You are criminally well informed, sis. But I trust your soul is still of the purest white."

Lucrezia: "You will be a handsome Cardinal. Let me hug you!"

Cesare: "Lucrezia, sister, share my fortune and my fate. And remember that wherever I may be, a part of me will always be yours."
Lucrezia: "As I also belong to you, brother."

Lucrezia: "No one here loves me as I was loved by you. I've tried everything, Cesare. No one wants to hear our name."

Lucrezia: "My soul dies when I imagine never seeing you again."

Cesare: "Lucrezia, Lucia, forgive me. All will be well if you forgive me. But you must live, sweet sister, live. We are one blood, one heart, one spirit."
Lucrezia: "Cesare, love me!"
Cesare: "For all eternity.

Cesare: "Cesare Borgia and Lucrezia, we shall be remembered. Be faithful only to me not to him, the unholy father who prays to a nameless god. You shall have the world, not the hereafter. And your name eternal."
Lucrezia: "I shall be duchess of Ferrarra, it's enough for me."
Cesare: "In name but nothing more."
Lucrezia: "In name and nothing more."

Cesare: "I promised you a heart, sister."
Lucrezia: "Whose? Your own?"

Lucrezia: "What does it say of us, brother, that you promise me this and I would accept?"

Lucrezia: "Cesare? I would ask you something.”
Cesare: “Then ask and it is yours.”
Lucrezia: “I would ask you to marry me.”
Cesare: “As you wish. My word is my word. We shall run away. Change our names, perhaps. Live out our days in some small fishing village by the coast. where no one will ever guess who we once were.”
Lucrezia: "To Alfonso."
Cesare: "Yes, yes, I know."

Cesare: "My love for my sister outweighs my grief for my brother."

Cesare: "Are you a shepherd of souls now?
Lucrezia: "And I see before me a lost sheep."
Cesare: "Utterly lost, my love."
Lucrezia: "Then, by hook or by crook I shall save you. You may kiss my ring!"

Cesare: "Don't I know how to organize a party for my sister?"
Lucrezia: "Thank you, Cesare!"
Cesare: "And I think I've done well. Look. I'm the one who chose the guests."
Lucrezia: "They're all courtesans."
Cesare: "Did you desire monks and nuns?"
Lucrezia: "Oh, no! No formalities!"

Lucrezia: "So then, I shall become a nun. For I shall never love a husband as I love you, Cesare."

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* a family scene with Lucrezia, Cesare and the baby
* a dance laden with sexual tension
* a kiss on the lips
* secret whispers and clandestine trysts noticed by others
* rumors of incest spreading just to see Cesare and Lucrezia reactions
* a fight between them ending in a scene with lots of emotional tension
* angsty scene with the both of them crying
* jealous Lucrezia and jealous Cesare
* Cesare defending Lucrezia's honour, even what he is doing is mostly lying because something did happen. And vice versa.
* more reactions on how others perceive the relationship, e.g. Juan
* Cesare helping Lucrezia take care of the baby
* Lucrezia going after someone to protect Cesare
* Cesare killing someone because of his feelings for Lucrezia
* Lucrezia wishing the baby was Cesare's
* Lucrezia sitting on Cesare's lap at some official function
* C&L riding out to the forest, away from prying eyes
* C&L admitting their love and feelings for each other in a dramatic scene
* C&L talking further about their runaway plan, this time more serious. Calling each other husband/wife, talking about having children and what they would look like etc.
* Cesare standing silenty in the door opening, watching Lucrezia brushing her hair and holding is breath when he sees a bear shoulder.
* Cesare receiving a hairlock from Lucrezia.
* Cesare watching over a dying Lucrezia, after she lost her baby, begging her not to leave him (sobbing). Otherwise he doesn't want to live and everything he does will be useless without her.
* Lucrezia performing a seductive dance, Cesare is watching her while new feelings arouse in him. Perhaps at the famous chestnut banquet?
* Lucrezia seeing Cesare masked
* Lucrezia watching Cesare taking a bath (inside or outside)
* Lucrezia telling Cesare how handsome he is, while stroking his facial features with her finger.
* Lucrezia asking Cesare to give her a child, so she'll always have him near (a bit silly, but one can only dream).
* And of course: a long romantic kiss and a steamy bedscene!!!
* Lucrezia getting drunk after Alfonso's murder and confessing her conflicting feelings to Cesare

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Credit

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#1 Lucrezia: "I've missed those hands." - Cesare: "And I've missed that face."
#2 Lucrezia: "And if my husband proves ungallant?" - Cesare: "I shall cut out his heart with a dinner knife and serve it to you."
#3 Cesare: "I beg you not to worry about it, sis. I will find a solution, I swear!"
#4 Lucrezia: "Don't you love God, Cesare?" - Cesare: "More than I love you?"
#5 Cesare lays Lucrezia on her bed and kisses her cheek at her wedding night.

Credit

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Past Threads
{01}{02}{03}{04}{05}{06}{7}{8}{9}{10}{11}{12}{13}{14}{15}{16}{17}{18}{19}{20}{21}{22}{23}{24}{25}{26}{27}{28}{29}{30}
{31}{32}{33}{34}{35}{36}{37}{38}{39}{40}{41}{42}{43}{44}{45}{46}{47}{48}{49}

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Credit

:yay: 50th thread! Thanks Gwen! :hug:

My pleasure :hug: 50th milestone, wa-hoo! :party:

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From the previous thread -

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mignonette (Post 94319772)

Thanks Gwen! I just discovered TB a few months ago, so have plenty to say :lol:

I love that title! It describes their relationship perfectly. They had wanted each other for so long, but their love was forbidden, so they were left wanting until the end. They both just finally said **** it! and went for it :yay:

Do you think she felt guilt for loving Cesare, Gwen? And do you mean before she acted on it or after or both? I know he suffered terribly with guilt and shame.

I always had the feeling that Lu didn't act on her feelings for him, because she knew he wasn't ready to take things to that level. She could read him so well.

When he kissed her in the armory, she knew he was ready and Alf gave her an excuse to push Ces into going all the way with her. If the maid hadn't interrupted them, he would have given her everything she wanted right then.

I'm glad they became lovers on her wedding night, because it was so symbolic of their desire to marry. He was so happy when she told him he'd be her husband for the night. I love how she paused before adding the "tonight", because her wish was for him to be her husband every night. And he had wanted so badly to be her husband on her wedding night to Sforza that he carried her to bed and stayed with her.

How did NJ write all that and not see their relationship as incestuous?

Guilt, no :no: not on Lucrezia's part. I think she feared growing up. The idea of Cesare, who had bedded many women over the years, seeing his younger sister maturing into a woman who sexually longed for him, probably terrified her - in a naturally insecure way that many people feel when they're in the presence of someone they love. :angel:

As for Neil Jordan, I think he definitely saw the incestuous love between Ces and Lu :nod: but for some weird reason, he was too fearful to bring it into the show at first. (I say "weird," because this is the same man who brought Interview With The Vampire to the screen, which NEVER held back upon sexuality :eyebrow:)

I think he was conscious of audiences adjusting to it, and didn't want to delve straight into the taboo nature of incest immediately, for fear of driving some people away.

Thanks so much for the new thread, Gwen! :hug: And I love the title! :clap: Man, I wish Arinna had done something special for our 50th thread, but I guess she wasn't paying attention. :lol:

Hi, Lila! :wave: :hug: Aww, it's okay, I'm not a computer person either. :blush: I basically find avatars on Google. I hope you can get a custom avatar. I think there are people on FF who make them. :nod:

And I don't mind your long posts, Lila. :hug: Don't worry, I'll reply to them. I just fall behind sometimes because I'm moderating three boards. Let me repost all the posts from the previous thread:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mignonette (Post 94314314)

Oh no, I didn't see it, I'm sorry Alex! :hug: Thanks for letting me know I missed it! The sexual aspect of CL relationship is fascinating, not just because of the physical consummation of their love, but because of how they deal with it emotionally and psychologically.

Making love completely changed how they related to each other. Warning! Long post ahead, cause this is my favorite subject :censored:

Before sex, they were so comfortable with each other. Lu was almost telepathic with Ces, reading his face, his eyes, and knowing what he was thinking. She had much more insight into him than he had into her. He was pretty clueless into her psyche, wasn't he?

She was much more astute than he ever gave her credit for. She knew they had to buy votes to get their father elected pope, that Ces was lying about Djem's death, & that her marriage to Sforza was for a strategic alliance.

Most importantly, she knew Ces wanted her sexually and was completely aware of the sex games he played with her.

They'd played the game of "want and wanting" since their first scene. But Ces always thought he was the one playing with her. He didn't realize his sweet little sister was playing along with him.

She told him repeatedly she was NOT innocent and naive, but he just didn't get it. That's why he was blown away when she took off all her clothes and had him come into her bedroom.

After he kissed her in the armory, she knew he was ready to make their love physical. She'd been waiting for him to make a move. After he killed Sforza, he said "I promised you a heart" and she said "whose, your own?".

That kiss did NOT wake up her desire for him - it was already there and she was FULLY AWARE of it, but she knew he wasn't ready to act until that kiss. When he asked "do you mean me for him?", she caressed his armor in a very sexual way and said "that too". And when he said "let him know that" after he kissed her, she said "I fear he knows already". Lu's smart, very self-aware, and always read Ces like a book.

Even though he kissed her, he was still holding back, so she knew she had to hit him over the head to wake him up and force his hand :hammer_head: He just simply COULD NOT see her as anything but a damsel in need of his protection, a girl, not a woman.

She had to show him her womanly body to get him past that. And she didn't just show him part of her body, she showed him ALL of it!

This was done subtly and very artfully in the 3x02 scene. In fact, so subtly that many viewers missed it. Not you and me, Alex, because we have dirty minds :D

For any readers not aware of what she did, here it is:

When Ces opened the door, she was lying naked on her side with her wedding dress strategically placed to cover her breasts and crotch. Remember she's TOTALLY naked...

Ces closes the door, checking if anyone has seen him go in. He knows they're crossing the line. When he turns back to Lu, the camera shows her from behind, so only Ces sees her from the front. She has moved her arm. It's now resting along her side, and she's arched back pushing out her chest and hips and she's LET HER DRESS FALL AWAY REVEALING HER ENTIRE FRONT. Her breasts and everything else are uncovered for him. He sees it all!

That's why he stands there stunned speechless :tongue_tied: while his eyes settle first on her breasts and then on her crotch before finally settling wide-eyed on her face. He slowly recovers and manages to stutter "I sssshould go sis..".

Of course he doesn't want to go and has NO INTENTION of going! He's closed the door, so it's pretty obvious he's going nowhere :lol: But he has to say that for his own sanity.

When the camera shows her from the front, she's put her arm down and covered herself partially with the dress again. She's teasing him. Showing him and then covering - it's what we women do to men :nod::evil_lol:

She asks "why? Am I ugly brother?" He's trapped! This question shows her intent and causes him to focus only on her attractiveness keeping him locked visually. He can't leave, because he can't stop thinking with his eyes...which have a direct path to his **** :nod:

Then she deals the master blow: she lifts her foot and tells him to feel it. We see her from behind again, so we don't see what Ces sees.

Alex, you got it from the start didn't you? What we don't see is that when she lifted her foot, she spread her legs for him and showed him her *****. Yes, she did :nod:

Poor Ces looked stunned again and when he walked toward her, he took a big breath and let it out slowly through his mouth. He knew exactly what she wanted. He asked, "is this a game?" when he took hold of her foot. He knew it wasn't, but he couldn't admit to himself what he was doing.

OMG he tried so hard to keep his eyes locked on her foot and no where else :lol: That's when she told him "it is a game of want and wanting". The same game they'd always played, but now she was confronting him by naming it. She'd always known and was comfortable with it. Ces was the conflicted one.

When he let go of her calf, because he knew she was having him work his way up her leg, he asked again "what game is this sis?". She knew he wasn't going to go any further, because he'd collected himself and withdrawn into his "armor".

That's why she brought up Alf. She wanted to make her brother confess his desire for her and take action on it by provoking his jealousy. And it worked, because he said "I'm sure you have the means to change that history" when she told him Alf was a virgin and wouldn't touch her.

She said "are you sure?" and pulled him down onto the bed with her and he went willingly, saying "I'm certain". This was the first time he'd verbalized his desire for her. And still he wouldn't touch her. She had to keep PROVOKING him.

She knew he wanted to touch her, but needed pushing. Which is why she brushed his hair back, putting her hand on his neck, drawing him closer, and saying "you look but don't touch". She wanted to go all the way with him. You don't show a guy your ***** if you don't want him to **** you! His "at last" made it clear he was going for it. If the maid hadn't interrupted them, it would've happened.

The knowledge that he'd been about to **** his little sister hit him after the knock, but when Lu turned over showing him her naked breasts again and now also showed him her naked ass, he couldn't help staring. She knew exactly how to penetrate his armor to get him to penetrate her. Like you said Alex, his armor was no match for her naked body :)

By the end time he left her room, he'd seen every part of her naked body and was a goner! :lol:

None of this was about Alf. He was her convenient, but necessary excuse. This was incest, so she needed an excuse. She was NOT going to Ces by default. She wanted him more than anything. But in order for her to fully own her incestuous desire for her brother, she needed to feel rejected by Alf to act on it.

Alex, yes, I want a custom avatar! A moving one. But I don't know how to do that :(. I'm a writer, not a computer person.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BL.Arinna_1982 (Post 94319359)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by 4brathan&brucas (Post 94319367)

I have no problem with your long post, Lila -- I used to do them, too! :lol: :high_five:

Totally agree with your last part, that Alfonso walking away was the ultimate push she needed to relieve herself of any guilt for her incestuous true love for Cesare. :nod:

I would love to open the 50th thread, guys :look: :thumbs_up: My title suggestion is:

{Cesare ♥ Lucrezia} ~ Celebrating 50 Threads of Fulfilling their "Want and Wanting" Game

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mignonette (Post 94319772)

Thanks Gwen! I just discovered TB a few months ago, so have plenty to say :lol:

I love that title! It describes their relationship perfectly. They had wanted each other for so long, but their love was forbidden, so they were left wanting until the end. They both just finally said **** it! and went for it :yay:

Do you think she felt guilt for loving Cesare, Gwen? And do you mean before she acted on it or after or both? I know he suffered terribly with guilt and shame.

I always had the feeling that Lu didn't act on her feelings for him, because she knew he wasn't ready to take things to that level. She could read him so well.

When he kissed her in the armory, she knew he was ready and Alf gave her an excuse to push Ces into going all the way with her. If the maid hadn't interrupted them, he would have given her everything she wanted right then.

I'm glad they became lovers on her wedding night, because it was so symbolic of their desire to marry. He was so happy when she told him he'd be her husband for the night. I love how she paused before adding the "tonight", because her wish was for him to be her husband every night. And he had wanted so badly to be her husband on her wedding night to Sforza that he carried her to bed and stayed with her.

How did NJ write all that and not see their relationship as incestuous?

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4brathan&brucas (Post 94320175)

Yes! I've thought the same thing about Lu being insecure. Being married and with Paolo gave her some experience. The blond guy helped too.

She'd watched Ces have sex from his bedroom window, so she knew how confident and experienced he was. That must have been intimidating, plus knowing it was incest and not being certain how he would react when she thought of seducing him.

After they had sex, she was still insecure, because he kept pushing her away. She used Alf to provoke his jealousy to get him to show his love for her. When he kissed her so passionately on the ride to Rome from Naples, she was in heaven. Him showing his love for her in front of her husband and his men, pleased her enormously, because she had no shame or guilt about loving him. She would've happily shouted it to the world if she could've.

To her, he was her lover, the man she loved. That he was also her brother wasn't a factor; she was a woman lost in love. But for him, she was first his little sister and he was drowning in shame and guilt for making her his lover. He was desperately in love, but couldn't get over thinking he'd failed her by giving in to his lust. I love what Alex said about Lu turning this experienced man into acting like a virgin school boy around her after she showed up naked :)

I felt her anguish when he practically sprinted away from her the day after they had sex :broken_heart: When Rodrigo asked if her wedding night brought her everything she could desire, she wanted to scream YES! :lol: She blushed & looked at Ces over Rodrigo's shoulder with a big smile on her face.

But he wasn't smiling! He was horrified by Rodrigo's comment. And then looking at her after Rodrigo walked away, you could see what he was thinking: "OMFG I ****** my little sister! I can't face her!". He always ran when he couldn't face her, didn't he?

Poor Lu :bawl: Her smile changed to such sadness, she was barely holding back tears. She'd fallen desperately in love with her brother the night before and was so happy to see him. All she wanted was to be in his arms :in_love: No woman wants to feel that the man she loves regrets making love to her! I can't watch that scene without my heart breaking for both of them :bawl:

That's what I think too about NJ. He didn't want people thinking that he personally approved incest and was afraid of audience reaction. Coward.

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Originally Posted by PhoenixRising (Post 94320848)

Hi, Lila! :wave: :hug: Aww, it's okay, I'm not a computer person either. :blush: I basically find avatars on Google. I hope you can get a custom avatar. I think there are people on FF who make them. :nod:

And I don't mind your long posts, Lila. :hug: Don't worry, I'll reply to them. I just fall behind sometimes because I'm moderating three boards. Let me repost all the posts from the previous thread:

Thanks Alex! :hug: I understand and it's ok that you post late. Besides my boyfriend, there's really no one else to discuss TB with like you guys. I appreciate you, Gwen, Arinna, and Linda so much for your posts and for keeping TB alive! :hug::love:

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhoenixRising (Post 94320848)

Thanks so much for the new thread, Gwen! :hug: And I love the title! :clap: Man, I wish Arinna had done something special for our 50th thread, but I guess she wasn't paying attention. :lol:

Aww, no problem! And there's always #100 to aim for! :D :bunny: :cheers:

Oh, I can't wait for #100, Gwen! :lol:

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Originally Posted by Mignonette (Post 94320876)

Awww, I'm glad you can talk with your boyfriend about The Borgias, Lila. :hug: And we appreciate you as well. :hug: We've missed having people here to talk about The Borgias and Cesare and Lucrezia. :clap: We'll always keep The Borgias alive.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mignonette (Post 94320876)

That's what I think too about NJ. He didn't want people thinking that he personally approved incest and was afraid of audience reaction. Coward.

Yes :irked: I think he wanted to test the waters with the audience and see what they reacted best to during the show. Ironically, it was Ces/Lu sexual chemistry that heightened people's interest :eyebrows: so by Season 3, he'd clearly made up his mind to just go with it. Francois had been telling him to do so since the very first episode :spank:

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AWWWW, tis our pleasure ;) We love talking about the show and particularly this couple

http://gifimage.net/wp-content/uploa...-hug-gif-8.gif

I love that gif, Arinna! :love: One of my favorite scenes!

Aww, thanks for giving the virtual hug, Gwen! :hug: :blush: And I agree, NJ was cowardly when it came to Cesare and Lucrezia's relationship. Today he'd be considered tame by HBO standards. :lol:

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Originally Posted by Mignonette (Post 94314314)

She had to show him her womanly body to get him past that. And she didn't just show him part of her body, she showed him ALL of it!

This was done subtly and very artfully in the 3x02 scene. In fact, so subtly that many viewers missed it. Not you and me, Alex, because we have dirty minds :D

For any readers not aware of what she did, here it is:

When Ces opened the door, she was lying naked on her side with her wedding dress strategically placed to cover her breasts and crotch. Remember she's TOTALLY naked...

Ces closes the door, checking if anyone has seen him go in. He knows they're crossing the line. When he turns back to Lu, the camera shows her from behind, so only Ces sees her from the front. She has moved her arm. It's now resting along her side, and she's arched back pushing out her chest and hips and she's LET HER DRESS FALL AWAY REVEALING HER ENTIRE FRONT. Her breasts and everything else are uncovered for him. He sees it all!

That's why he stands there stunned speechless :tongue_tied: while his eyes settle first on her breasts and then on her crotch before finally settling wide-eyed on her face. He slowly recovers and manages to stutter "I sssshould go sis..".

Of course he doesn't want to go and has NO INTENTION of going! He's closed the door, so it's pretty obvious he's going nowhere :lol: But he has to say that for his own sanity.

When the camera shows her from the front, she's put her arm down and covered herself partially with the dress again. She's teasing him. Showing him and then covering - it's what we women do to men :nod::evil_lol:

She asks "why? Am I ugly brother?" He's trapped! This question shows her intent and causes him to focus only on her attractiveness keeping him locked visually. He can't leave, because he can't stop thinking with his eyes...which have a direct path to his **** :nod:

Then she deals the master blow: she lifts her foot and tells him to feel it. We see her from behind again, so we don't see what Ces sees.

Alex, you got it from the start didn't you? What we don't see is that when she lifted her foot, she spread her legs for him and showed him her *****. Yes, she did :nod:

Yes I did, Lila. :lol: Yes, you and I have dirty minds. At first I didn't even know that was her wedding dress, but Lucrezia was basically disrespecting her future husband already by trying to seduce her brother while wearing the dress she was going to be married in. :lol:

Oh, Lucrezia pulling that trick by implying that she seemed ugly to herself was very sly, because she was putting Cesare in a position where he had to admit that he not only found her attractive, but desirable. ;) She was hooking him and roping him in. :lol:

Yeah, I did get her teasing Cesare, Lila. :lol: It's what women do well. What surprised me is how awkward Cesare was because this wasn't exactly his first time, yet Lucrezia made him seem like a virgin. OMG, that Madonna song totally fits! :lol:

Great quality and coloring in the gif Arinna!

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Originally Posted by 4brathan&brucas (Post 94325536)

Thanks for the big hug Gwen! :love: :hug: I need to wash my brain of the image of François spanking NJ :lmao: FH had such amazing chemistry! I'm happy they shipped CL and fought for their love from the start. I wonder what happened with them off set? I know they both had relationships, but they did work together for 3 years far away from home so...:make_out:

In season 3 bloopers, there's a clip of them in bed and she's naked. They're laughing and he lies nearly on top of her with his hands all over. The only thing covering her is part of the wedding dress and it gets pushed away. He was very familiar with her body from the way he was touching her & she looks comfortable with it. I hope they did hook up, because with chemistry like that, it would be a crime against nature not to :nod: :lol:

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhoenixRising (Post 94329818)

Hi Alex! To dirty minds :cheers: Her showing him everything was tastefully done, but was too subtle with the camera angles. NJ with his trepidation! It was incest and maybe he wanted to show their love as being elevated, but the audience should get what's going on.

Lu used her wedding dress as a seduction prop :lol: Alf became a joke between CL, didn't he? When Ces kissed her, Alf was history! She didn't think he would ever make a move. The night they made love, Ces said "no, Lucrezia, you cannot", and she said "BUT I MUST!" She knew it would be up to her to make it happen.

Lu was so devious :devil: it only SEEMED like she went to Ces after Alf rejected her. That's because SHE made the audience, as well as Ces, think that. Even after he kissed her, she knew he was still playing games. It was INCEST, but she didn't care - she..just..wanted..him. She knew he'd need convincing to cross the line.

Like you said, Alex, a woman's most powerful weapon is her body. A hunter stuns the prey first and then kills it :lol: She stunned him with her nakedness and when he was completely stupefied, she went for the kill by making him admit his lust and pulling him onto bed.

Telling Ces that Alf wouldn't touch her was a subtle way of letting him know she wasn't having sex with another man. Telling him Alf was a virgin showed her disdain for him and pumped Ces' ego cause he was no virgin :clap: She knew the mention of Alf made Ces jealous and possessive. She provoked his jealousy while soothing his ego to soften the blow. Yes, I know, devious - but effective ;)

She had to continue to provoke him into touching her, saying she felt unloved & finally, with a tear rolling down her cheek, she flat out confronted him with "you look but don't touch". The girl had to hit him over the head :hammer_head: :lmao:

Gwen had a great point: when you love someone, no matter how experienced you are, you can feel insecure with them. He loved her so much, he was probably overwhelmed with insecurities. While he was a Casanova with every other woman, only Lu could make him feel doubts as a lover, a man, about being able to please her. Like A Virgin song playing in the background...:bunny:

Alex :hug: the irony with NJ wanting to put up sexual boundaries is that he stayed true to the taboo themes in Interview With The Vampire, and in The Borgias, he made Juan the sleaziest + most embarrassing sibling imaginable yet when it came to L/C, he held back until the very last season. :facepalm:

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Originally Posted by Mignonette (Post 94331474)

Thanks for the big hug Gwen! :love: :hug: I need to wash my brain of the image of François spanking NJ :lmao:

Oh my gosh :lmao: I didn't intend for it to look like that :goof: I meant that Francois must have stayed very persistent with NJ about what was best for Ces/Lu becoming a romantic pair :nod: :pirate:

Quote:

Gwen had a great point: when you love someone, no matter how experienced you are, you can feel insecure with them. He loved her so much, he was probably overwhelmed with insecurities. While he was a Casanova with every other woman, only Lu could make him feel doubts as a lover, a man, about being able to please her. Like A Virgin song playing in the background...:bunny:

:nod: :high_five: and especially given that Lu had witnessed his daily string of hook-ups leave his chambers every morning :sick: She must have been imagining that was her with him, every time. :cry: :in_love:

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Originally Posted by 4brathan&brucas (Post 94334203)

She not only saw them leave, she watched him in action naked from the open window over his bed. He left it unlatched for her. Remember their very first scene? He wanted her to watch him, because he wanted her to see him as a man and desire him like he desired her. He was all over her right after, smelling of sex, and she didn't mind. They were looking at each other's lips, wanting to kiss.

Then later in church, she teased him saying "surely marriage is good" when he told her she'd never marry if he could help it. They both were playing the want & wanting game :nod:

Very true. Most of their younger years were clearly spent with them pushing each other's buttons and Cesare seeing how long he could tease her before she made a move :drool: