shippers11

I don't think any house has the option of staying out of this war if it's as big as the spoilers. The Reeds are not simply a house that's on friendly terms with the Starks. Their house are Stark loyalist. But I think the real issue is the Little Finger and the Knights of the Vale. I don't think for one second that he's going to support the Starks. The reason being is because if the Starks take back the North he'll never have a chance of getting it. Little Finger didn't anticipate Jon rallying the Northern houses and with a wildlings army of his own. Plus when he finds out Rickon is alive his chances of taking the North for himself would be almost impossible. That's why taking out the Starks would make sense for him.

shippers11

This is the cutest!

shippers11

I think if Jon ever finds out about is parent at (GRRM has confirmed that he will) Howe Reed is going to have to be the one to tell him. As you said he's the only one who knows the truth.

KingCrow

To be honest Jon is not going to believe him and there is no evidence left to prove it. Even if by some miracle he will believe him...no one else would. He looks nothing like a Targaryen and Dany will get all the support from houses that allied with Targaryens and I'm talking about Dorne and might be that Greyjoys will try to use it or Tyrells.



I'm putting it out there mildly,because it looks like the Umbers will be against the Starks which is atrocious given the fact that they did suffer during Red Wedding and are fierce when it comes to the Starks. Just theoretically speaking of the Reeds, they might be better wary of the Freys than the Boltons and either way they're protected by their swamps. The Greywater Watch is impossible to find, because it's still moving.

Littlefinger will support Sansa and Widlings Jon, but the Vale would never attack Starks...the Arryns and the Starks are friends and they are suspicious of LF. Only becaue of Sansa he's still alive. His plans are going to be screwed up either way. He underestimated Ramsay's personality and what he did to Sansa. Sansa might finally use him instead of him her, Jon alive and Rickon as well. Then there is a key element Rickon. Sansa might not be that generously welcomed by Northern lords. Yes, she's a Stark ,but she married to the Lannisters and the Boltons. Not exactly loved houses in the North and Jon.

Well, he will be leading the Wildlings a long term enemy of Northerners and they will be really cautious of him. In fact the Wildlings threat might be even bigger than the Boltons and their rulling over the North. Nobody will believe in WW stories and allowing their long term enemy the Wildlings to live in their land. Jon commit a treason even for a good reason and they don't know that WW are coming for them. On top of that Jon will desert the Wall one way or the other. I don't believe he will get away that cheapily in their eyes. Vow is a vow for the Northerners. Being a bastard is not exactly a plus either.

Jon_Robb66

I know that they are very suspicious of LF's motives for the Vale since Lysa and Jon are dead. They are about Robert (Robin in the tv show) and what LF has planned for him. The Lords of the Vale can claim Robert (Robin) as the Lord of the Vale and Sansa as regent until he comes of age. Arryns and Starks are long time friends, but they have the Tully House too due to marriages of Catelyn and Lysa.

shippers11

It's already been confirmed that Jon is going to find out about his parentage. How else would he find out unless he was told by someone who there? Howe Reed is the only person alive who knows the truth. He was there at the Tower of Joy when Ned found Lyanna. Why would Jon not believe Howe Reed? He's a friend of Ned Stark and loyal to House Stark. What motivation would he have to lie about that of all things? I don't see any reason Jon would not believe him. And what possible evidence can anyone provide about Jon's parentage outside of their own testimony? It's not like they have DNA test to prove who his parents were. Outside of DNA there is no way to prove paternity. So based on that I think that Howe Reed word would be enough to satisfy Jon and anyone else.

Little Finger handed Sansa over to the Boltons. The same people who murdered her family and took the North from them. Sansa lying for him didn't stop him from doing that, nor will it him from attempting to take the North. Little Finger is only loyal to himself and his own ambitions. He's not going to side with the Starks. Jon Arryan was friends with the Starks, but he's dead. Robert Arryan is the Lord of the Vale now. He listens to Little Finger. The Knights of the Vale will do what their Lord commands. And of fighting the Starks is what he commands that is what will happen.

Jon died. He paid his debt to the Night's Watch. About time season 6 starts up again everyone on the Wall will see his dead corpse. So how is it that no one will believe that he died? The Night's Watch will believe it. The wildlings will believe. I highly doubt the Night's Watch will been sending any ravens calling him a oath breaker demanding his head.

shippers11

In the books they are suspicious of him. On the show it seems he's gained their trust.

Jon_Robb66

This makes me angsty between the books and the show. It's like they changed his character to cunning to trusting.

They can't really prove who fathered Jon. (By in those days, there was no DNA tests. If a noble fathered a child out of his marriage with another woman, he can or can not claim the child as his. Henry VIII fathered a bastard son Henry FitzRoy and claimed as his son. He might have fathered more children but never claimed them since he was seeking an heir to the English and Irish throne.)

Dany might claim Jon as family if R+L=J is very true. Rhaegar was her brother after all.

KingCrow

Beautiful.



He gained their trust only thanks to Sansa. She vouched for him,because otherwise he would be killed. The Knigts of Vale would fight for Sansa and Starks and not against them. No way. The Vale allied with Baratheons and Starks against Aerys and Targaryens. Rebelled against them and they are still a great friends.



If R+L=J is true. How to prove it to Dany. Especially when Jon is nothing like a Targaryen. She loves or very admires Rhaegar, but there is simply no way to prove it. Bonding with a dragon doesn't prove that you are a Targaryen, because as GRRM said...you don't have to be a Targaryen to ride them. Which many people translate that Tyrion would ride a one dragon. It's a really tricky situation, because Howland's word is not enough either for her. Ned probably destroyed every piece of paper that proves Jon's birth or parentage.

Jon_Robb66

I know. I saw and had post it on her. Chibi Drogon reminds me of Pokemon.

shippers11

I don't think we can describe Little Finger as trusting on the show. He's the most lying, back stabbing, manipulating piece of crap I have ever seen. He's betrayed the Starks, Lannisters, and Tyrells.
He killed Lysa without hesitation. A person that loved him and was totally committed to him. He handed Sansa over to the Boltons after she saved his life. I can go on and on. Point is this man can not be trusted by anyone.

There is no evidence that can be provided to prove Jon's parentage on modern day standards. However people do know that Howe Reed was with Ned when he found Lyanna at the Tower of Joy. That would make him the only witness alive who can give testimony on what happen that day. Of course there will be people who won't believe that Jon is the son of Rhaegar. But some people who will believe it.

Jon_Robb66

Lyanna was found in a bed of blood. With that much blood, she gave birth recently and was dying of a fever after childbirth. Jon was the baby. It makes me think that Mel will use him for King's blood too.

Didn't LF have a hand in Jon Arryn's death too?

shippers11

He gained their trust because of Sansa but that did stop him from handing her over to the Boltons. Caitlyn Stark saved from getting his head caved in by Brandon Stark. That didn't stop him from betraying Ned and sending someone to assassinate Bran. Little Finger is only loyal to himself and his own ambition. We know that Little Finger wants to rule the North. He can take the North from the Boltons. Cersi would name him Warden of the North. He'll probably be viewed a liberator by the Northerns. If he sides with the Starks that would put him in direct opposition with the Iron Throne. He'll never be Warden of the North.

If the Vale was such good friends with the Starks why didn't they join them after Ned was beheaded in Kings Landing? They sat out the entire war. They plenty of opportunities to help the Starks but never did. Why did they do that? Because the Lady of the Vale forbid it. The Vale is going to do what the Lord of the Vale commands them to do. Little Finger commands the Lord of the Vale at the moment.

How do you know Howe Reed word would not be enough? He was at the Tower of Joy, right? He was the only person still alive who was there. What would be his motivation to lie? There is nothing in it for him or his family. He's not in any trouble that he has to lie to get himself out of. Will Dany believe it? I'm not sure one way or the other. I think eventually she will. But who knows...

shippers11

You think she'll use Jon? That is interesting. Do you have a theory?

KingCrow

No people will never believe it strictly because Jon looks nothing like a Targaryen and Howland's word is not enough without any evidence. No one knows that Rhaegar and Lyanna had a child. Varys Master of Whispers doesn't have a clue, LF or even Tywin's spies couldn't figured it out. On the other hand you have Dany who is looking like 100% Targaryen and her parentage is acknowledged.



Mel is currently losing believe in herself. I mean she looked pretty devastated when she arrived at CB and she knows that Stannis is not AAR or the guy she was supposed to look out for. She used Gendry or Shireen for Stannis as King's blood, because she believed that he was the guy.

Mel's role is intriguing,because Davos hates her and we know what she did, Davos might learn it as well. Wildlings hates her for burning their king and NW has a little love for Red Priestess. By all accounts she might die, but foreshadowing from her visions is there with like meeting with Arya and walking on the battlements of Winterfell, but we news we learned she might bite it. I can explain it.






Why Vale didn't go to war with Northerners? Good question. Maybe because of Lysa's paranoia and she participated in Jon Arryn's murder. You know she was kind of a jealous of Baelish's affection towards Cat and in general too. Maybe because it wasn't in their interests, but even if they didn't go there. That doesn't change the fact that The Vale are on friendly terms and wouldn't attack them just for nothing. Especiall since Sansa might stumble uppon them while escaping Boltons. Just makes no sense. Royce is kind of leading person too and going against Northerners in their country is a suicide. Even making his way there with The Vale army is risky.

As for LF. Yeah, he is using everyone. Obviously his goal is IT and he will do anything, but I guess he didn't count on the fact that Jon might be a strong person leading forces and making it tough for him or Rickon Northerners secret weapon.

How do I know that word from a Crannogman wouldn't be enough...they're not really loved and people always used to mock them due to their visage or how they live. Not in the castles. Yes, he was there but Ned even tear down the whole thing...don't know how bu he did that. Destroyed every single paper, evidence leading anyone towards Jon or what this secret might be. Unless there is a CSI lab somewhere...well it's had to prove his parentage. Given his looks.

Will Dany believe it? Very unlikely. How could she, when Jon again looks nothing like a Targaryen. There is literally no reason for her to believe it... even if we wanted to. That's just common sense.