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Old 07-09-2019, 07:10 PM
  #61
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Can someone remind me what that thing is that they were carrying around/the thing Kane was holding at the end?
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Old 07-09-2019, 07:11 PM
  #62
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This episode was incredible. My favorite since 5x03, I think. The Bellarke stuff was great, the Octavia stuff was great, Indra woke up, Mike Beach appeared, and even though Kane died, he died a hero.
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Old 07-09-2019, 07:14 PM
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The Bellarke stuff made me anxious as usual, but as usual they just tiptoed around things without delving in completely. This is not a Bellarke thing necessarily, it's a writing thing - surface-level conversations that are almost always interrupted by an outside source. It's frustrating to watch.

That said, it was funny seeing Josephine prod Bellamy a bit about their weird relationship. I still don't know what they're trying to do with Bellarke, but I'm obviously in the trash can forever.
I think it says a lot that Josephine is literally inside Clarke's head and can see everything that has happened between her and Bellamy and she chooses to point out that their relationship is a weird rollercoaster in which they alternate between being enemies and friends. And Bellamy agrees! As I'm watching it, I see the writers deliberately taking a shot at this idealization of "Bellarke" and de-glamorizing the awful things they've done to each other and with each other. We should not be glorifying genocide and murder just because it's something two attractive characters have done together. If the theme of this season is about facing demons and becoming better, then they do need to address how twisted and bizarre this relationship truly is. It was a "good" Bellarke episode in the sense that it told the truth about Bellarke. It's unhealthy and confusing.
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Old 07-09-2019, 07:15 PM
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Old 07-09-2019, 07:18 PM
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Maybe the two boxes were another extension of that "greatest fear/greatest desire" thing.
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Old 07-09-2019, 07:21 PM
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I think it says a lot that Josephine is literally inside Clarke's head and can see everything that has happened between her and Bellamy and she chooses to point out that their relationship is a weird rollercoaster in which they alternate between being enemies and friends. And Bellamy agrees! As I'm watching it, I see the writers deliberately taking a shot at this idealization of "Bellarke" and de-glamorizing the awful things they've done to each other and with each other. We should not be glorifying genocide and murder just because it's something two attractive characters have done together. If the theme of this season is about facing demons and becoming better, then they do need to address how twisted and bizarre this relationship truly is.
I don't think that's where they were going with this, though. Sadly, I don't feel like this episode was sophisticated enough for that. Every scene that's been about facing demons has been thrust in our face as a Demon Facing Scene, and so literally at that.

I personally don't glamourize the genocide they've both done (as have other characters in this show), I moreso focus on the bond they have as two questionable people who have done questionable things in a garbage world, filled with other questionable people. I think the show has previously shown us that they've both done garbage things, time and time again - but I do agree this is one of the more clear times that an outside character has called them out on their bond being over awful actions they've taken. And at least they are both fully aware of the crap they've done, unlike some other characters.

(Which IMO, is why I think they belong together - if they're garbage, then I ship then both together into the same garbage dump where they can be wonderfully smelly together for life)

And thanks Becks, I forgot about the nightblood

But yo - they stole that hot dude's body then just flung it into space? That's so mean?
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Old 07-09-2019, 07:27 PM
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I don't think that's where they were going with this, though. Sadly, I don't feel like this episode was sophisticated enough for that. Every scene that's been about facing demons has been thrust in our face as a Demon Facing Scene, and so literally at that.

I personally don't glamourize the genocide they've both done (as have other characters in this show), I moreso focus on the bond they have as two questionable people who have done questionable things in a garbage world, filled with other questionable people. I think the show has previously shown us that they've both done garbage things, time and time again - but I do agree this is one of the more clear times that an outside character has called them out on their bond being over awful actions they've taken. And at least they are both fully aware of the crap they've done, unlike some other characters.

(Which IMO, is why I think they belong together - if they're garbage, then I ship then both together into the same garbage dump where they can be wonderfully smelly together for life)

And thanks Becks, I forgot about the nightblood

But yo - they stole that hot dude's body then just flung it into space? That's so mean?
I think you're misunderstanding me. I didn't say that the writers meant for this to be a "facing your demons" scene. I'm saying that the writers need to face the demon that is Bellarke's awful relationship.

But Josephine specifically called them out on the garbage things they have done to each other. To me, I think it's extremely weird to think that after everything they've done to each other, that they could be considered soulmates or even friends. I could never trust a person who has gone back and forth in this "exhausting" way that Bellamy and Clarke have. How could she call him on the radio for years and then leave him to die? It makes no sense at all. I have to hope that the writers are being deliberate here, because if it's not... then it's just crappy writing and uneven characterization.

And I don't think the show has glamorized the genocide. I think the fandom has. "Together." And I think this is the show calling that out as morally wrong.
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Old 07-09-2019, 07:34 PM
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Well the fact that the show called out the 'together' thing at all, glamourized it IMO. Either that, or they're *****ing with the Bellarke audience because they know that line is important to them - and if they're calling that out as morally wrong, then a) the framing of that relationship has been completely off-base since season 2 or b) that's just being kinda rude to your audience.

Don't get me wrong, it's twisted af (the relationship and what they've done), but so is this show as a whole, and most of its characters. So many of them have bonded over/despite terrible things they've done. So at what point do they all just kind of meld together into one huge pot of terrible actions? idk.

How many CoG are roaming around, anyway?
And there are so many radios in Gabriel's camp, where else are they picking up signals from?

How the hell did the anomaly heal Octavia? If there's time-travel involved, we only have 4 episodes left to delve into that.
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Old 07-09-2019, 07:42 PM
  #69
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Well the fact that the show called out the 'together' thing at all, glamourized it IMO. Either that, or they're *****ing with the Bellarke audience because they know that line is important to them - and if they're calling that out as morally wrong, then a) the framing of that relationship has been completely off-base since season 2 or b) that's just being kinda rude to your audience.

Don't get me wrong, it's twisted af (the relationship and what they've done), but so is this show as a whole, and most of its characters. So many of them have bonded over/despite terrible things they've done. So at what point do they all just kind of meld together into one huge pot of terrible actions? idk.

How many CoG are roaming around, anyway?
And there are so many radios in Gabriel's camp, where else are they picking up signals from?

How the hell did the anomaly heal Octavia? If there's time-travel involved, we only have 4 episodes left to delve into that.
They constantly talk about the need to be better and regain their humanity because none of this is okay. Like, hello? Obviously they've been trying to frame the genocide as morally wrong since S2 because they keep bringing it up as a bad thing that Clarke feels deeply guilty about. It's not the writers' faults that they're trying to tell one story and their audience wants it to be about something different. This season in particular is about acknowledging that all of these things that have happened (including Bellarke) are sick and twisted. It's not okay to "bond" over the fact that they've betrayed each other multiple times and committed hideous crimes together. What other characters have positive feelings about each other because of having done terrible things together. Seriously. You said "so many of them." Who do you mean? I think that's not accurate.

Anyway, I have to be awake at 4AM tomorrow so goodnight.
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Old 07-09-2019, 08:23 PM
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I enjoyed this episode. More than previous. Indra waking up was great and I liked that from her culture point of view OF COURSE it seems like the primes are gods.

Marcus is dead. That got to me. So so so so glad they switched to Henry for that scene as it was really icking me out him in that (younger) body.

I enjoyed the Bellarke scene not that it was Bellarke scenes (Sometimes I actually think I will miss Josephine in Clarke). I'm in the minority that I'm just indifferent to them most of the time. All their history and all their mistakes gets exhausting and it does feel like every other episode has to bring up some of that up over and over. If they do get them together, fine. I really would just shrug and go okay. They leave them as friends, I shrug and go okay. In all honesty, neither character is the reason I'm tuning in.

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It's not the writers' faults that they're trying to tell one story and their audience wants it to be about something different.
I have to disagree here. While sometimes I don't see the supposed feelings that Bellarke have for each other that the shippers do, I do think the writers purposely plant things. Last season when Bellamy ran to Echo the camera definitely panned to Clarke and lingered on her reaction. That is a technique used all the time in soap operas they use all the time. Ditto for last year's finale ending on Bellarke arm in arm looking at the new world after they meet Jordan. While it technically was platonic it was shot to look romantic as anyone who would have tuned it at the one moment would have thought them a couple.
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Old 07-09-2019, 09:57 PM
  #71
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Hey, thanks, Tripp. Even though you don't ship Bellamy and Clarke, I appreciate you acknowledging the things that shippers do see and feel means something. Sometimes it's a little bit hard being a Bellarke shipper and being told that your opinion is wrong or that you're not interpreting the story correctly, which unfortunately seems to happen a lot in this fandom. I mean, I don't like the ship Bellamy's currently in, but hey, if some people out there perceive it as an awesome ship, that's their opinion, and they're entitled to it. It differs greatly from my own, but hey, that's fine.

Okay, so I just went and re-watched the episode because I thought it was soooooo good, so I'm just going to go ahead and post my thoughts now, while it's fresh in my mind!



Clarke/Josephine (with Bellarke mentions): Man, you can just tell how much fun Eliza had playing this role. It's been really fun to watch. Josephine is so up her own ass, thinking she's awesome. Yeah, right! Awful is more like it. I was surprised but absolutely delighted when we found out that Clarke could actually hear what was going on! Didn't expect that at all, but now she knows that Bellamy's fighting for her. And she continues to fight for herself now, too. Josephine might be crafty, but Clarke's a fighter, and she had to get really tough on earth, especially to survive on her own. I found it a tad unrealistic that she was able to take everyone out by herself (she's not Blodreina, after all), but I guess I can chalk it up to adrenaline and the will to survive. I was really surprised that we actually saw Clarke return in this episode, and Josephine definitely bit off more than she can chew here. What, does she think Clarke's just going to go to sleep now?

Josephine . . . welcome to the EVERYBDOY KNOWS club. Here, you'll find our deceased president named Roan. We have another deceased member in Jaha, and then there's Diyoza, who came in swinging last year when she proclaimed Bellamy and Clarke "the hostage taker and his girlfriend." Murphy is also a member of this club, as are Octavia and Madi. We also once had ALIE in this club in the form of RavALIE and AbALIE. And a lot of people in the fandom are in this club, too, so . . . yeah, welcome. You're not nice, but we welcome you anyway. Our club gets bigger and bigger a the time.

Basically that's my attempt at being humorous about the fact that Josephine very obviously had a "I guess you care about her more" line. Which, um, doesn't seem to be wrong. And then there were some interesting directorial choices that I'll save for the Bellarke thread, and her calling out Bellamy's relationship with Clarke as "weird," which it is, but not in a bad way. Yeah, it's had its ups and downs, but she uses something like Bellamy leaving her behind on earth as a negative, when really, it was what Clarke wanted him to do. I found all of her interaction with him to be incredibly . . . significant. Further discussion in the Bellarke thread.


Bellamy (also with some Bellarke): I'm loving Bellamy so much this season. I know Bob's been limited because of his knee, but honestly, if you didn't know about that, I don't think you'd be able to tell. I just love seeing Bellamy so determined and passionate about saving Clarke. He's heart-driven right now for sure, because he is risking everything for her, but he's still using his head, too, trying to negotiate in the midst of . . . absolute chaos, honestly. Just little things like swiping some red blood on her forehead . . . that was good thinking. Didn't work, but it almost did. I wouldn't have thought of that.

He so clearly hates Josephine but at the same time can't completely hate her because she looks like Clarke. Someone threatens her, and he jumps to her defense because of Clarke. Someone pushes her around, and it pains him to see that happen. And can I just point out that I absolutely LOVE the fact that he was still attuned to her using morse code and then loved even more that he realized she was Clarke just by . . . knowing her so well, pretty much.

Now that we've gotten a glimpse into both Octavia and Clarke's minds, though, what do we have to do to get a glimpse into Bellamy's? That'd be so complex and complicated. Like, if you were to draw a character web, Bellamy would be the guy with the most connections to others, the strongest relationships. It'd be so cool to see all that in his mind. And to see more of a glimpse of, like, the Eclipse Bellamy, which was obviously an extreme version of himself. I don't know, it'd just be cool, but I'm not holding my breath for it.


Octavia (and Pike): WOW! Okay, you guys know how I felt about Octavia last season. And while I still don't necessarily like her, I have to say that I continue to be pleasantly surprised about how they're handling her storyline this season. I did find her "I have to earn it" line about redemption a little cheesy and heavy-handed, but other than that, this was some really good stuff. That scene of her in the fighting pit was loooong, but it was really good. I did not expect to see Pike again! Holy ****. Mike Beach is so good. And Pike . . . I don't hate him the way a lot of other people in the fandom do. One of the most interesting lines to me was that Octavia killed him right as he was trying to start earning his own redemption. I think a lot of people tend to forget about that. I don't think Pike was a fundamentally bad person. I think he became incredibly misguided and never had a chance to redeem himself.

Then there were the Lincoln flashbacks. I thought we'd never see Ricky Whittle's face on this show again or hear Lincoln mentioned ever again, but it worked really well here. Honestly, I used to like Linctavia more than I do now. They were, at one point, probably my second favorite ship on the show. But nowadays I prefer both Memori and Murven to them. But yeah, it hit me in the feels. That music. (Also, this is random, but music-related . . . I loved the background music when Octavia was looking at the green box. It was really pretty.)

My feelings about Octavia are so complicated at this point, but I do think she's had one of the most well-written storylines from season 4 onward. As infuriating as it's been, they've really crafted it well, and Marie has knocked it out of the park. She's phenomenal.

I loved that they used Pike to recap ALL the horrible things Octavia did last season. It's like . . . they didn't let her off the hook for it. They brought up the hydrofarm, the battle in the gorge that didn't need to be fought, putting Bellamy in the pit, the cannibalism . . . Yep, it was pretty bad, and I think this episode did a great job of showcasing how horrible Blodreina was. Interesting character, but horrible. Kind of like Josephine, although Josephine is sometimes funny.


Kane: I knew this was coming. I knew HIC was leaving the show, and I doubted they would keep the Kane character around in another body. So this was a very unique death scene for me. I didn't cry, because at this point . . . I wanted it. I wanted Kane to be able to die. I didn't want him to have to live on in someone else's body, because we all knew he wouldn't be okay with this. And let's be real here, his role on the show is not as important as it once was. Don't get me wrong, though, I still love Kane. I don't envision that he'll ever leave my Top 10 favorite characters list, even though I did bump a couple people up over him recently. He died a hero, and I'm proud of him for that. So it was a very bittersweet ending for him, IMO.

Kudos to the other actor for managing to seem very Kane-like. He did a good job.


Abby: Amazing acting by Paige Turco in the last scene. She let herself ugly cry, and it worked. I'm so frustrated with her at this point that I still struggled to feel bad for her, but on some level . . . yeah, I do feel bad. She watched the man she loves be floated for a second time. But she was so wrong to do what she did, and it was pretty delusional for her to think that Kane in another body would be a workable thing. I actually don't agree with Kane saying she's stronger than him. Not in recent seasons. I still wouldn't mind if Abby were to also kick the bucket this season, but I don't see it happening now.


Raven: What is there to say? She's still in desperate need of a storyline, exists to say judgmental lines (even if they are warranted), and was there for Kane's death when I don't even recall her ever having any meaningful scenes with Kane?


Indra: I'm so glad they finally woke her up! Adina is such a strong presence on screen. I'm glad she was able to be there to say goodbye to Kane, too, as their friendship was always kind of a nice one. And an unexpected one. She actually brought up a good point that one could compare the conclave and the floating policy on the Ark to what the Primes are doing now. And in that scene, Kane had a line about worshipping false gods, and I just have to say . . . that's so reminiscent of the commander system. I feel like it's kind of the same thing. All the more reason for the flame to be destroyed, even though it won't be.


Stray Thoughts: I really like that this episode allowed the focus to be on Octavia, Clarke/Josephine, Bellamy, Kane, and Abby. Even though I like some of those characters better than others, I think the show works well when it doesn't try to cram everyone into the storyline. Like, sure, I love Murphy, but he wasn't needed for this episode.


Episode MVP: Marcus Kane without a doubt.

I'm just going to list off my picks just to keep track of them at this point:

6x01 - Bellamy (still unsure on this one, but he had good leadership)
6x02 - Murphy
6x03 - Clarke
6x04 - Diyoza
6x05 - Jordan
6x06 - Bellamy
6x07 - Clarke
6x08 - Emori
6x09 - Kane
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Old 07-09-2019, 11:23 PM
  #72
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That was a good one

I'm sobbing, even though I predicted Kane would float himself as soon as Abby put him into a new body. But the goodbye scene killed me

I am so going to miss HIC

I really enjoyed watching Octavia struggle and what a great choice bringing Pike back. Slaying him in cold blood was supposed to be revenge, to bring a sense of justice and closure to Octavia and yet all it did was hasten her spiral into darkness. I loved how it paralleled Lincoln's death and Pike's and how Octavia would choose differently this time around. Well done, Marie and Mike, I was on the edge of my seat

Bellamy and Josephine/Clarke scenes were good but come on show.
Close-up of Bellamy with endless seconds of romantic score? Really? At this point it seems just funny to me how close they step to the edge without ever crossing the line. Josephine asking if Clarke is that important, interruption before Bellamy can answer, and more moments like that. Hahaha.

I did laugh out loud when Clarke tapped out "boohoo" in morse code though

And Josephine relinquishing control to Clarke? I get that this was her only way to not get her head lobbed off but Clarke ain't gonna squander that opportunity.

Ugh, somehow these episodes always seem to be too short. Insert obligatory "I cannot wait for the next one" here

Let me read what everyone else thought...
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Old 07-10-2019, 05:03 AM
  #73
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April I agree with you re: Octavia’s redemption dialogue between a little heavy-handed, it was almost too on-the-nose However I also dug it, so I let the cheesiness slide.

How sad is it that Indra woke up just to have to say goodbye to her good friend? I loved them. I also found Kane’s death so sad, but also oddly anti-climatic because IMO he was MIA for so long, then...gone. I still teared up, though.

I loved that they showed us Lincoln too, he never gets mentioned yet they finally gave us his actual image - it hurt to see him!
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Old 07-10-2019, 05:53 AM
  #74
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Only BTS pic we got so far:
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Old 07-10-2019, 06:37 AM
  #75
best friends and soulmates

 
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I do miss Mike Beach a lot. What a good guy and a good actor. Was anyone else totally surprised to see him, or were there spoilers?

Yeah, Lisa, I can let it slide, too. Just because I’m actually happy that she knows she has to earn redemption for everything she’s done.

Ah, yes, Kate, the romantic score.

What do we make of this episode title?
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