kenni727

Me too. I get that the burnt sign reinforces the post-apocalyptic world they live in, but why must the village name come from that? I'm less impressed now.

Fuzzy Dunlop

I'm sure they thought it was really clever when they came up with it. Maybe the idea is that these Grounders migrated to DC at some point and they saw the sign as they were traveling. But then they actually did stop and build their village ten miles away in the actual city. We know they're in DC proper because of the Lincoln Memorial. It's all a bit weird and there are so many little things that bug. Like you would think that DC would have taken a direct hit in any kind of nuclear war and any landmarks for miles around would be completely obliterated. If New York is a dead zone, then by all logic DC should be the same.

kenni727

Yeah, probably. It just seems lazy to me that the name was handed to them from a sign instead of a natural evolution through their language, which is an inherent aspect of the creole.

I see an argument for the Lincoln Memorial being obliterated, but you know they had to take the opportunity to play something that iconic. And to beat over our heads the significance of Lincoln's name. Although, my belief in the significance to the meaning of or allusions for character names took a direct hit with Finn.

Fuzzy Dunlop

I agree about Tondc. It would have been better for it to just be the creole version of DC.

And I didn't just mean that the Lincoln Memorial should have been obliterated, I mean that the whole city should have been destroyed to the same extent as New York. Like, if the United States is your enemy and you want to bomb them, Washington DC is obviously your first and most important target for political and military reasons. You would probably bomb New York at the same time, but you wouldn't bomb New York more heavily to the point that it becomes a desert. Of course, they couldn't make DC a desert because they're not gonna set the show in a desert, but it's just one of those things that doesn't make a whole lot of sense if you think about it.

Did you think the name Finn was an allusion? I thought all of the literary reference names came directly from Kass Morgan's books and they were all sci-fi authors.

kenni727

While I do love sci-fi I wouldn’t consider myself a huge sci-fi fan, so there’s a A LOT I don’t know. But my understanding is it’s just their first names that come from sci-fi writers. And perhaps I’m giving Kass Morgan too much credit, but I think there’s significance to the last names too. Well at least Griffin and Blake.

I also see significance to some of the names of characters original to the show. Like Raven and Lincoln. I could even say Murphy too. But I think that was really just for episode 4 Murphy’s Law. I’m not sure if it was intended to have meaning beyond that. Though I very well may still be giving too much credit to the writers.

As for Finn, I saw parallels for him to Huckleberry Finn. Especially in context with Lincoln and the Grounders. But then Finn had to go and shoot a bunch of Grounders. Huck never would have shot Jim. In fact, he was willing to go to hell in order to save Jim. So that allusion only went so far and I really have no idea if any parallels to Huck were intended or not.

Fuzzy Dunlop

Griffin and Blake could have significance, I guess, but I always thought Kass Morgan was just blatantly name-dropping with Clarke, Bellamy, Wells, and Octavia for the fun of it. As far as the show goes, I figured Lincoln was just named after the statue since it's near his village. Both Raven and Murphy seem like the names were given so they could be clever on the show (Nygel calling Raven her "little bird" informant and Murphy's Law like you said.) But maybe I'm just not reading deeply into things when I should be?

All I know is, I have always felt very strongly that Finn Collins was a reference to Phil Collins.

kenni727

Or I'm reading too much into it. A distinct possibility. Like I said, I may be giving the writers too much credit. Though Lincoln simply named for the statue near his village feels like lazy writing to me. And Murphy probably was just to be clever for the episode title. And it's really all just speculation about the others. There's a part of me that really does think Griffin and Blake were intentional because they fit so well. But at the same time I'm basing that on the TV show and those names are from Kass Morgan. I don't know how well those meanings fit the Bellamy and Clarke of the book.

And Phil Collins? Ha!

Ciiisu

Holy hell this ep was awful (in a good way) Its like they took everything heartbreaking and crammed it into one ep damn.

Moments that really got me: Gustus telling Lexa to be strong before she stabbed him, Raven getting sliced and screaming and Clarke telling Bellamy he should go to MW

I loved that Finns hallucination/ghost/whatever wasnt there to guilt Clarke, I feel like that wouldve been way too awful after what happened. I thought it was great that he was there to help her sort of. The scene where Clarke told him that love is weakness was sad (idk I just thought it was nice acting from Thomas, the look on his face and how he walked away from her).

I feel like there was almost too much happening in this ep though, so some stuff fell flat to me idk. Like the Abby/Clarke scene about Jake and Clarke being like Abby. One sec she told Abby shes nothing like her and the next one she was like yes Im like you and then that was it????? I dont know, for me it seemed way too short/rushed. I also feel like they did Raven so wrong. They focused a lot on Clarkes pain (as they should! and Im happy they did), but Raven seemed almost fine after she saw whats happening to Gustus and realizing that the same thing wouldve happened to Finn. And that was weird imo, just because she logically realizes why it had to be done wouldnt make her feelings of hurt and betrayal randomly poof. I def hope they'll show us more how Raven is dealing with Finns death, but I also remember how they gave Clarke a few scenes where she was sad after Wells died and then nothing and that doesnt give me much hope tbh

Fuzzy Dunlop

I don't think that was it at all. That was like the moment she decided that she was going to go Lexa's route instead of her mother's emotional route. Because she really, really doesn't want to be like her mom. It's like her worst nightmare to think that she might have made the same choices Abby made that led to her father's dead. And that carried over into the final scene between them when Clarke refused the vial of ashes that Abby gave her.

kenni727

Though I felt like the scenes with Finn were a bit heavy handed at times, overall I liked them. I loved that Finn didn't talk. Thomas definitely did a good job there.

I don't feel like things were rushed at all with Clarke and her mom. We're far from done with that. I'm also terrified of becoming my mother, and I can definitely say you can span the gamut of emotions related to that in 10 seconds. Though I also don't think that's exclusive to simply not wanting to be your mother. I've had other instances in my life in which I'm discussing something emotional/upsetting and then don't realize I feel a certain way until I actually say it. So these realizations and the processes Clarke was going through felt pretty spot on to me.

As for Raven, I don't think she's suddenly over it. But she's realized that maybe Clarke actually did Finn a service and so her anger will no longer be directed at Clarke.

I also think that due to the pace of the show it doesn't always give the characters the opportunity to stew in their emotions as much as some viewers would like. Sometimes I like that because there's only so much angst I can take. But it also makes things a little less real at times. So I don't know. Clarke did seem to get over Wells quickly. We'll see about Raven dealing with Finn. Maybe it is done.

Ciiisu

I still feel that it was rushed Thats JMO.

I think thats it. I usually like the fast pace in this show, but there are occasions where I feel like they gloss over things (like Clarke mourning Wells) and it just comes off unbelievable and like bad storytelling, because they keep throwing messed up **** at the characters so then you still have the angst but everything is rushed and weird.

Alexa

I wanted to warm up to Lexa but I’m not sure I can. She’s still an enemy and is just super abrasive right now. and how can Clarke possibly date Lexa later after she’s done all this? Ordered Finn’s death, now torturing Raven? Killing Gustis like it was nothing? WTF.

Once again Clarke is the one to figure everything out. Surprise surprise.

Alexa

Clarke crying over Finn at the beginning with the blood on her hands was great acting by Eliza!

BELLARKE SCENE. I love that Bellamy offered himself up and Clarkes like "I SAID NO." okay wifey, calm down. "I cant loose you too, okay?" TOO? Okay, so she lost Finn, someone she said she loved. Someone she was romantic with. And now shes comparing Bellamy to Finn in that same sense? ME LIKEY. And Bellamy's face after that.

I like Alycia a lot and I like Lexa too but I still dont know if I truly buy her as commander. Just sometimes her lines come out so lame. Its just not that believable to me that shed be in charge.

Bellamy knocking the drink out of Clarke's hand was so sweet and I also love how he ran in front of her when the table was moved. He also knew gustus was to blame because he knew that he loved lexa, just as bellamy loves clarke. and i love how clarke tells bellamy to go mt weather, saying "i was being WEAK" and then she tells finn at the end "love is weakness"... definitely not a coincidence there.

MY BB RAVEN! She did not deserve those lashings but I like that she had a sort of new appreciation for what Clarke did after witnessing that.

April7739

Oh, so this is the episode where that happens, huh? Yeah. About that.




ETA: Again, Alexa, it's so funny to compare your reaction then vs. now.

Alexa

OMG do you need a little pepper with that salt hmmmmmm.

but i love it

and I know! hahahaha. poor soul me back then.