Damocles

...cont'd from the last thread

kenni727

Thanks Lisa!

Bringing over from last thread...

As though a person can have just ONE weakness? You're inferring that Abby meant her friends are her greatest weakness. I agree with Fuzzy. Killing Abby was the last resort. Of course ALIE would prefer to sacrifice a non-chipped Bellamy than Abby. I don't think any of ALIE's chipped minions go-to will be to sacrifice themselves when killing someone else is an option. Sure they believe they continue to live in the City of Light, but they also can't serve ALIE as well once their physical body is dead so self-preservation will still be a priority over someone not chipped.

And when did Clarke sacrifice her mother for her friends?

Skylarc

Alie was willing to sacrifice Abby when she wanted Kane to take the chip. So yeah, she doesn´t really care about having her or not. She is a computer program.

We don´t know if Abby was her last resort, what we know is that Abby was her ONLY resort because she couldn´t get her friends.

Abby could have just said, "bring Bellamy and her other friends" and she might break. But what she said was that her friends ARE her weakness. Nobody is arguing that Clarke doesn´t love her mother. But mothers are not always the most important part of someones life. At least not when you are an adult and have good friends.

kenni727

ALIE was willing to sacrifice Abby to get Kane because she was out of options to get Kane. Until Bellamy and the others escaped ALIE still had other options to get Clarke.

Perhaps hanging Abby wasn't the last resort. But I still don't think that ALIE opting to torture or kill Bellamy before sacrificing Abby is indicative of Bellamy being more important to Clarke than Abby is.

And I never argued that Clarke's friends AREN'T her weakness. They totally are. I'm saying they aren't her ONLY weakness.

Skylarc

It was said that Abby is the most important person for Clarke, And thats what i did disagree with. Bellamy imo is at least as important to her.

The writers don´t just do things for no reason. They had Abby be the weakness for Kane, Emori the weakness for Murphy, Luna the weakness for Derrick etc. So Alie did not just out of the blue bring Bellamy for Clarke. That had to mean something.

Fogh

All of her people are really her weakness. The debate was her biggest weakness due to the nature of ALIE's methods in the past and the fact that hanging Abby was improvisation ie not part of the original plan. We can compromise and say they are equally as important...

The scene also paralleled 2x09 which I liked.

Clarke let the missile hit TonDC with her mom there to protect Bellamy so they could save her friends.

kenni727

No. Once Clarke realized her mother was still in TonDC she went back for her.

Skylarc

She never looked for her mother or told her to leave so of course she still was in TonDC. She just saw her sec before the bomb dropped and could get her save. Not saying she didn´t care for her mother but she also didn´t bother to look if she is save.

kenni727

Clarke had no idea her mother was in TonDC. Last she saw her she was telling her to stay in Camp Jaha. So of course she didn't look for her in TonDC.

Skylarc

Then i remember it wrong, sorry. I thought Abby was with Kane. Not saying that she would have looked for Abby, i guess we never know. She didn´t care that Kane and Octavia were there.

kenni727

Yeah well Kane and Octavia aren't her mother.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not always a fan of Clarke's relationship with her mother. There are definitely issues there and Clarke is far from excited to see her mother at times. But when it comes down to it ***** has gotten 10,000 kinds of REAL if Clarke will allow her mother to be sacrificed.

Fuzzy Dunlop

Thank you, Kenni! You're so on point about all of this.

ALIE was also willing to sacrifice Raven to get Abby, but that obviously doesn't mean she didn't care about having Raven. She cared a whole freaking lot about having Raven, as the next episode proved.

Nobody is trying to say that Bellamy isn't important to Clarke. Obviously he is. But Abby has consistently been the one person on the show who has brought the most emotion out of Clarke. And vice versa. There's a reason why they structured the episode to end the in the most shocking, painful way possible by forcing Clarke to watch Abby hang herself in order to save the world. Most normal people with mothers understand that it doesn't get much worse than that. Ultimate dark. That's what they want going into the finale. They used Abby/Clarke because that's the deepest relationship Clarke has. If it were Bellamy, then they would have ended the episode with that. But they didn't even bother to carry through with the threat of torturing him. They just mentioned it briefly and used it to bring Bellamy and Murphy's groups together.

kenni727

Agree Fuzzy.

Of course Bellamy is important to Clarke. I genuinely believe that next to Abby he would be the closest bet to breaking Clarke. But the episode structure definitely points to Abby being the most crucial to Clarke.

Fogh

It's the intention of torturing/killing Bellamy not the actual torture that is important here. We didn't get to see it because Murphy&co saved them. And I disagree with the structure because that's not how I read the narrative. Not when Abby says that Clarke's weak link is her friends and not when ALIE says that hanging Abby is an improvisation. Agree to disagree.

Skylarc

We already had that watch your mother die part with Monty, twice. And i don´t agree that structure DEFINITELY points to Abby being the most crucial for her. I guess there is no point in arguing over this so agree to disagree it is.