Taryn74

I agree with your points about Octavia (and Gaia - I'm really starting to not like Gaia, at all). Somebody on "the other board" was going on about how Octavia changed the rules to make Kane fight again out of personal vengeance.....uh, no. She made him fight again because he lost the crowd. Indra even warned her it was happening, for pete's sake. She wouldn't have done that if "losing the crowd" wasn't something they needed to avoid at all cost. And furthermore, Gaia's little formal speech asking if he had won his freedom made it obvious this was part of their regular procedure, not something Octavia did on the spur of the moment out of anger or embarrassment.

I don't mind people not liking Octavia, especially seeing her on this path she's on right now, but don't read stuff into her actions that's simply not there because you think she's the devil incarnate.

Re: the Dark Year - I think cannibalism is the obvious inference, which is why I don't think that's it. I lean toward it being a time where Octavia had to fight - literally - to earn the population's respect as their Queen and prevent a coup. A lot of those almost-400 deaths were probably at her own hand, not because she wanted to do it but because she had to in order to hold onto her position. (And losing her position would have meant death, not just a loss of power.)

BrooklynFan

I feel similarly. Octavia's now dealing with the same thing that EVERYONE on this show who's been in a position of authority has confronted--the terrible choices that a leader must make in extreme situations. Clarke, Bellamy, Jaha, Kane, various grounder leaders, the Mountain Men president, they've all had to learn the harsh lessons that sometimes it's kill or be killed, that they have to sometimes sacrifice some of their own for the greater good, that a leader can't let personal attachments or feelings get in the way of impartial justice (or survival). This is what Jaha taught Octavia in their last conversation. Maybe she's learned the lesson too well, but she's certainly not alone in that.

For me THE big question of this show is whether a leader will emerge who can break this cycle and find a better way. The reason I loved Lexa is that she tried to be that leader when she decided to try to change Grounder culture's longstanding "blood must have blood." The reason I love Clarke is that she is the one who convinced Lexa to do this by articulating so well the need for a better way that would escape the endless cycle of retribution. And this I think is why Lexa had to die: If she and Clarke had succeeded in establishing a more collaborative and merciful culture, the show would have ceased to be the dystopian nightmare we all love.

So now it's Octavia's turn, and love her or hate her she's doing what she has to do. I think they're trying to make us hate her right now, which leaves me with some hope that she'll have a big redemption arc in the second half of the season.

CanIcallYouKate

Paula, you know my feelings re Octavia very well, so I'll be brief.

I agree with everything you say there except I am maybe more willing to "blame" Octavia for getting herself into said situation. And we can debate in detail how much choice she actually had in arriving at the point when we see Kane fight.

I am however willing to cut her some slack. She was a 16 (?) year old when thrust into the leader role, she might not have the best advisors around *looking at you here, Gaia* and she has gone through major trauma pretty much since the day she was born. Unlike Clarke, who grew up in a household in leadership proximity ("uncle Jaha" for all intents and purposes) and her brother, who had to take responsibility from a very early age, she basically had no idea what she was doing. Very often, Octavia has no impulse control to speak of and that is not a leadership quality. (not saying she can't learn and grow obviously)

All that said, there is never a point to throwing hate around online. **** those haters and unfollow them (I think you did already )

Thank you for sharing your opinion, I loved reading your thoughts

For what it's worth, like I stated before on numerous occasions, I do not believe anyone is beyond redemption on this show and I look forward to seeing Octavia's arc

Damocles

Paula, legitimately the only time in the episode that Octavia pissed me off was at the end when she blamed Bellamy and just looked like such a brat. It just reminded me of Old Octavia. Other than that, I've been fine with her so far. She was in a crappy position.

Side note: how the hell are Abby's pills even effective? How do they have so many pills? Were they magically manufactured somewhere? If not, they must be 100+ years old? Those are some seriously expired pills idk

Fuzzy Dunlop

That's a good point about the pills! Because I'm a huge nerd, I keep wondering what kind of pills she's taking. What are they for exactly? Pain? Is this The 100's take on the opioid epidemic?

April7739

Paula, thanks for posting your thoughts. Although I wouldn’t say that Bellamy and Clarke are universally-loved characters (as both can be quite polarizing), I think it is indeed worth noting that they both probably have a more sizable fan base. Which isn’t to say that Octvia isn’t a popular character, but it’s not on the same level, which makes it easier for the online hate to go around.

I’m not giving up on Octavia, and I don’t hate her, but I am admittedly frustrated with her right now. Very frustrated. But you’re right, if it had been some nameless character and not Kane, I wouldn’t have been bothered as much. But the fact if the matter is that it is Kane, and quite frankly, I like Kane better. So it’s difficult for me.

I think Gaia was a horrible influence on her. Octavia was young and not the most emotionally stable when she earned this power. She was a fighter, as she said, not a leader. She’s become a leader, but not the one she wanted to be, not the one Bellamy, Indra, or Kane wanted her to be. It’s just really sad. To me, she’s an absolute tragic character right now. We’ll see if she can emerge from it.

I’m not annoyed at Bellamy for being a bit judgmental of Octavia. Yes, he had a much better time of it in space for 6 years, but I think he was asking her about all that because he cares, and because it’s horrifying for him to see her like this.

SuitUp

Second this. The only thing that Octavia did that I had an issue with was the way she treated Bellamy. Blaming him for something out of his control.

You haven't seen him in 6 years. He comes to get you. And less than 24 hours later. "Everything is your fault." It's so tiring. They don't always have to be on the same page but this is too much.

sonny1

Paula, you're really here! ... Sorry, maybe I've watched the Bellarke scene one too many

I've missed it so much to discuss with you

I'll be honest, I hope we can see a better Octavia soon, now that she's out of the bunker

I full agree with all you've said about blaming Bellamy, the Miller/Octavia relationship, Murven, Diyoza/Raven, Shaw/Raven, Bellarke reunion and the hugs

Season 5 made me tear up a lot until now ... especially the Clarke/Raven conversation over the radio

I hope you have more time to discuss with us soon

Jason has said it at the TV Guide Episode review ... Abby is addicted to pain killers

the1marie

Yeah, it does seem odd. And I would've thought her addiction would have become an issue in way less than six years. I also thought it was weird that Octavia kept trying to get Kane to tell her who stole the pills. I mean, she had to know it was Abby.

Paula, I love that you always defend Octavia One thing I appreciate about this fandom is that every character has their supporters who will always try to understand that character's perspective.


I definitely felt like Octavia didn't want to kill Kane, but rather she felt like she was backed into a corner since he refused to fight or tell her who really stole the pills. And there was also the element of feeling the need to follow what the crowd wanted. That being said, she's in this position because she decided prisoners should fight for their lives. I still like Octavia as a character, and I'm interested to see where her storyline is going, but I just don't agree with the fighting ring at all. To me, that is not justice.


When I first heard the cannibalism theory I was so against it, but now I feel like I'll be let down if it doesn't happen. Either way, I want to know more about the dark year!


Indra was so great! It was interesting to see how she dealt with that split loyalty between Octavia and Kane


I agree The handshake felt more natural than a hug would have. I would love for Octavia and Clarke to get back to a place where a hug would make sense for them, but I'm glad the show didn't force it


I hope Miller gets a good storyline this season! I don't remember him and Octavia ever being particularly close, so it will be interesting to see how he is after six years in the bunker. It definitely seems like some of his loyalties may have changed, and that could produce some interesting character interactions.


I think you make a good point about her being a fighter, rather than a leader I think Octavia herself essentially said that in 4x02. So even though I really don't agree with the fights, I can see how that might be a leadership style that makes sense to Octavia. While I think that she has the potential to change and grow, just like anyone else, I'm not sure she really should be a leader. I don't think she's great at it, and I'm not sure she herself even wants it.

Taryn74

Didn't the Arkers raid the medical supplies from Mt. Weather after Clarke pulled the lever? I remember there being a big thing about it (because the Grounders would think they were trying to gain advantage over them.....or something.....). I assumed that's where most of their meds came from.

I'm sure she did know, but since Kane was the one who "confessed" to it, in a legal sense her hands were tied unless he admitted he was lying. Indra kept Abby locked up away from everyone so she couldn't confess and end up in the ring.

April7739

I started writing up my thoughts last night. Gonna have a lot about this one.

BlueDog9

Why would you put Abby in the Ring anyway, when she's one of the only two doctors you have? I mean, Jackson's great, but he can't take care of 800+ people all on his own.

Taryn74

Well, this is The 100. They were seconds away from floating Abby in S1. I know they had a few more medical staff at that time, but not that many.

BlueDog9

April7739

Yaaasss!