Fuzzy Dunlop

I'm sorry, but Bellamy has dealt with the loss of Clarke, Octavia, and an entire planet before - all at the same time. This is not worse or more compounded than that. I'm not gonna keep going back and forth about it, but this entire show has been a bunch of tragedies stacked on top of each other. Like remember the time when Bellamy's mom got killed and Octavia got imprisoned (to be executed at 18?) He's seen truly terrible things. This is relatively tame in comparison.

kenni727

I agree. I could sort of see this as being compounded since he's also going trough loss with Octavia at the moment. But again, he's been through that before. Man has been through a lot his entire life. I agree that Clarke is incredibly important to him. But just don't see her as the thing that makes him totally shut down and turn into a zombie. Doesn't fit his character. Poor writing. They just want Bellamy to go along with this deal of the Primes which makes absolutely no sense any way you slice it.

Octavia and Diyoza need to figure out what's what and return to Sanctum to clue in the others and they all give the primes the middle finger as they fly off in their ship.

Am I becoming a broken record? Maybe. Do I care? No.

a little chaos

Echo knew Clarke wasn’t Clarke, but I don’t think she realised that meant Clarke was dead until Bellamy said it...

Fuzzy Dunlop

I think there's a lot of potential explanations for why Echo seemed to be surprised in the moment. But at the same time, I don't think it's relevant to anything. Bellamy said Clarke's dead and Echo made a "oh no!" face. Okay... there's probably not a hidden meaning there.

kenni727

I'm suddenly thinking if Echo had reacted differently. Like if no reaction Bellamy would be hurt again cause she doesn't care. So if she then explains she already knew Bellamy would be further confused. Which he didn't need in that moment. So then people would be like, "C'mon Echo, couldn't you just act concerned and grieve with Bellamy rather than showing off that you already knew?"

a little chaos

I agree

BlueDog9

Shouldn't it have been obvious to Echo that Clarke's dead since she knew she's not Clarke anymore? The surprised reaction was just off to me.

Modo1013

I did a rewatch to catch some details. It's interesting to me how so many little things can be interpreted differently. I guess that is why I love this show.

So, just in my humble opinion:

Not sure about the Dictavia storyline, yet. The little pieces of info we get from Xavier are starting to add up. I suspect we won't get into the real dangers there until S7. But, I'm down for it. I love these badass ladies together. And Xavier can stay. CM is hot...and very tall.

Speaking of badass ladies. Echo coming quietly into the bar. She looked to be in spy mode, checking around. I took her "what's going on?" as a reaction to seeing Bellamy and the others sitting around with their heads down. Their body language showed that they were upset/sad, especially Bellamy. It didn't seem like she expected to see him just sitting there. I don't know if she realized that Clark was actually dead until Bellamy told her. Their hug was one of comfort. Her comforting Bellamy, because I do believe that Echo knows how important Clarke is to him. Even though we didn't see him mourn Clarke on the ring, it happened, so she knows. I do think she was surprised to hear Bellamy say they weren't attacking. That conversation may not be over between these two.

I think the Raven we saw here was pretty similar to S1 Raven. Her nastiness had a point and I didn't mind her ripping into Ryder at all. The Primes are a much healthier outlet for her bitterness than Clarke and Abby. She can't do anything about the past, but, she can help save them on Sanctum. If the writers will let her. Ryder can feel as guilty and tortured as he wants, he is still gonna snatch another body. He seems to enjoy his tortured feelings. And Raven ain't here for it. I'd like to see her (and maybe Jordan) work on digging into the tech to find that the hosts are not dead, just dormant. Raven has had little to do this season, so, they really need to step it up with her.

In the Murphamy scene, Bellamy asks why he is really there. There were tears in Murphy's eyes. Were they genuine or an act? That's the beauty of Murphy. You just dont know. Then later, he looks so smug and complicit when Josie hands him the drives. Something that l assume Bellamy didnt see. Josie called him a snake. Master manipulators sure can pick each other out of a crowd. lol. Murphy is one of my favorites, and I never want him to die. But, I would be okay with Bellamy kicking his ass again when this is over. Given how brotherly their relationship has become, a better punishment may be for Bellamy to ignore him or even banish him like S1. Tell him to go live with the Primes. I enjoy these two so much, so , l hope this isn't done.

I'm willing to give the dark Madi storyline a chance, but, I don't want it to get too ridiculous. Hopefully Gaia will get a clue and let the others know what is going on with Madi. The look in her eyes, not to mention the death threat, should have been enough to let her realize that the dark commander is trying to steer the ship.

I'm trying to figure out what was going on with Emori. It seemed like she knew something was off with Murphy. That kiss was kind of tentative on her part and the look he gave her...hmmm. When she relieved Raven, there was this expression on her face that i couldn't quite read. Luisa is so good with her facial expressions, so, I'm wondering if something was cut. I wouldn't think that they would cut her reaction to Murphy's plan, but, ya never know. If she is suspicious, I'd like to see that on screen.

It seemed to me that every time Abbie started to suspect that something was up with her daughter, Josie would push the guilt button. Thanks a lot, Murphy. As far as she knows, saving Kane is her only big problem. She is single-minded and will do anything to find a solution. Abbie and Clarke are very similar in this way. I hope we get to see her find out what they have done to Clarke.

Bellamy. I do love that guy. Talk about going from enraged exhaustion to devastated compliance all in one episode. Or was he looking to the stars, silently asking Monty or Clarke for guidance? Bravo Bob. He slayed those scenes. I would have loved to see him trash that room. Josie comes slinking in, using Clarke's physical appearance and softened voice to try to convince him to deal with the situation together. Girl has no idea what she just asked. He looked like he wanted to throw up. Couldn't even look at her after that. I don't think she's had a total read on what the relationship actually is between Bellarke. She's certainly not alone in that. lol. I noticed something in two scenes. When Bellamy was talking to Murphy about killing everyone and taking the compound, he was tapping his clenched fist in his other hand in suppressed rage. Later, when the decision was made not to fight, Bellamy does that again. This time, he sits crying alone. His hand is in a fist, but the tapping into his other hand reads as impotent despair. With Bob unable to act as physically this season, it was nice to see the subtleties. And I agree that this will not stand. As soon as he gets one whiff of the real Clarke being alive, it is on.

Clarke Griiffin/Josephine Ada Lightnourne throw down next week. Can't wait.

April7739

Love your thoughts on Bellamy, Modo, especially how you phrased it as “enraged exhaustion to devastated compliance.” I feel like him having that clenched fist again at the end shows us that he would LOVE to fight and get his revenge, but he can’t.

Yeah, you’re right, Gaia needs to let someone know what’s going on with Madi. Stop on the way off to banishment and TELL BELLAMY, Gaia. Not that he knows what to do about this ****, but at least he wouldn’t be like, “I have to obey your orders no matter what, Heda, so yeah, I’ll leave if you tell me to, even though it means you have to fend for yourself.”

And yes, they really need to step it up with Raven. She knows the Primes need nightbloods, so I would think she’ll try to explain to Abby why they can’t teach them how to make nightbloods. Maybe she and Abby will piece it together up on the ship that Clarke isn’t Clarke anymore. Although I don’t have a whole lot of faith in either one of them at this point.

Damocles

Totally agree on your Bellamy thoughts, Modo. Kenny and Fuzzy, I’m having troubles identifying with your claims that Bellamy is OOC. Yes he’s had compounded grief before, but you simply cannot measure, process and deal with grief the same way every single time it’s dumped on you. At some point you have to be able to sit there and cry, if not for the audience alone. He probably did this in space too, we just never saw it. I just don’t get the idea that this isn’t Bellamy because he’s so defeated.

And re: Echo in the bar scene, there’s no ‘hidden meaning’ obviously, but I think her reaction makes sense in the way someone mentioned above - she knew that wasn’t Clarke; but didn’t know the extent to which Clarke was gone. Right? Where was she when they discovered that lab with the movie? I keep forgetting who was in that scene

BlueDog9

The lab scene was Bellamy, Josie!Clarke, Jordan, Murphy, and Gaia.

April7739

Totally agree, Lisa. I think it’s important to remember, too, that “heart Bellamy” doesn’t have to just all be anger and action, either. Heart Bellamy is sadness, grief, pain. Everything he feels, he feels deeply.


ETA: This episode title is actually Memento Mori, isn't it? Just noticed that. And I'm lazy and always just copy/paste the stuff from here onto Bob's board, so I had it wrong over there, too.

Fuzzy Dunlop

Do you understand that I'm talking about his decision to make a deal with the Primes? Bellamy has cried before when people died. But he's usually not also pathetically weak-minded and super easy to flip. All of the trademark Bellamy bravery and defiance was gone way too easily. He was just like, "okay, we'll make a deal with these evil monsters who killed Clarke and then I'm gonna go sob about it." That's the part that's OOC. The motivating logic behind that choice was lame. He's not defeated. This wasn't the only choice he had. Murphy's argument about Monty was stupid. I don't believe that Bellamy would have ever agreed to it. Maybe he would have given up if he thought it would save someone's life. But certainly not in this situation after the damage has been done. He's not saving or defending anything here, he's just selling everyone out to body-snatchers. Because he's so sad??? No way. That's weak.

Damocles

I do understand, but I also don’t understand what else you think he’s supposed to APART from what he was going to do, which was kill everyone? And the reason he stopped was because of Monty, and how he specifically wanted them to do better on this new planet. Unless I’m missing something, what is OOC about that?

If he doesn’t kill them, he doesn’t know what to do. Neither do we. Nobody does. Nobody knows Clarke is in there, still.

And did he even specifically make a deal? He just backed down when he was in the middle of strangling someone. I guess that can be taken as no retaliation which means they are allowed to stay and live there, but that’s specifically intertwined with Monty’s Space Wish and in that one scene, that’s why he backed down. Who’s to say he won’t/they won’t retaliate in another, much sneakier way? They haven’t spoken to everyone yet, what if Raven has an idea, for example? Harried Abby? It’s only been part of one episode.

I also wanted to slap Murphy a bit, but I love him and also don’t want to slap him a bit.

kenni727

When Echo asked Bellamy what they were going to do he said they were doing nothing. In that moment he said they're taking the deal. I can understand him letting it go in that moment with Josephine so that he would be free. But then it appears that he did just accept the deal. They're going to stay there and do nothing. I'm not saying that decision will stick. But the fact that Bellamy ever made that choice in the first place makes no sense. It's NOT what Monty would have wanted and Bellamy knows that. Echo knows that. It's not what Clarke would have wanted, as Bellamy claims at the end.

This is what we're saying is OOC. For Bellamy to take moment to just cry and grieve rather than fight back attacking everyone in his path? That's totally fine and believable. But it's that he's also just accepting this fate for the rest of them. That's what is not Bellamy.