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Old 07-01-2018, 05:52 PM
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How We Get to Peace [5x08] Episode Discussion Airdate [06-26-18] #2



5x08: How We Get to Peace

(9:00-10:00 p.m. ET) (Content Rating TBD) (HDTV)


DETERMINATION
Clarke’s (Eliza Taylor) determination to protect Madi (guest star Lola Flannery “Home Again,” “Shadowhunters”) puts Bellamy (Bob Morley) in an impossible position, Paige Turco, Henry Ian Cusick, Marie Avgeropoulos, Lindsey Morgan, Richard Harmon, Chris Larkin and Tasya Teles also star. Antonio Negret directed the episode written by Lauren Muir (#508). Original airdate 6/26/2018.






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Old 07-01-2018, 06:29 PM
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Thanks, I didn’t even notice we needed a new thread.

I think 5x05 is the only thread that didn’t make it to two threads so far this season, and I think we need to change that! Anyone want to resurrect it with me?
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Old 07-01-2018, 06:30 PM
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Thanks, I didn’t even notice we needed a new thread.

I think 5x05 is the only thread that didn’t make it to two threads so far this season, and I think we need to change that! Anyone want to resurrect it with me?
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Old 07-01-2018, 07:28 PM
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TFTNT!

I think everyone does bad things on this show. imo No one person is better than the other.

But for me, and for everyone really, you like who you like, and the characters you dont like you judge a bit harsher. Its just the nature of the game.

I will say though, I loved and defended Octavia for 4 seasons. This season I just cant do it.
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Old 07-01-2018, 08:20 PM
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I think everyone does bad things on this show. imo No one person is better than the other.
I think it depends on the magnitude of the things they do, their reasons for doing them, and if they try to do better in the aftermath, though.

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But for me, and for everyone really, you like who you like, and the characters you dont like you judge a bit harsher. Its just the nature of the game.
True. If I had liked Echo, for instance, coming into the season, I’m sure I wouldn’t be as critical of her as I currently am. But then again, look at Indra, who I didn’t like coming into this season, and who I now love. So I guess it varies by character and how they’re written.

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I will say though, I loved and defended Octavia for 4 seasons. This season I just cant do it.
Same. Well, I’ve been a bit critical of her from 3B onward, but this season is . . . again, I use the word extreme. I keep coming back to that word with her.
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Old 07-02-2018, 01:24 AM
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I think it depends on the magnitude of the things they do, their reasons for doing them, and if they try to do better in the aftermath, though.
I sometimes find it hard to judge the characters because of the desperation of their situation. It can boil down to a question of what options were available to them.

In the case of the irradiation of Mount Weather, Clarke and others had exhausted other potential solutions, including allying with the Grounders to save their people. Those in authority in Mount Weather were also offered donated bone marrow, and chose not to avail of it. Therefore, to my mind, irradiating the base was the only way for Clarke and Bellamy to save their people from being murdered, and I wouldn't think badly of them for it.

In contrast, the people at Mount Weather had options other than murdering people for their blood and bone marrow. They may have wanted to return to the surface but, as long as their bunker was capable of sustaining life, they didn't need to. Because of this, I couldn't see their actions as anything but wrong.

Octavia's actions in the bunker were motivated by necessity. They couldn't sustain their population beyond five years, and couldn't leave at the end of the five year period. The population needed to be reduced, and reducing it by eliminating criminals would have seemed the least bad option.
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Old 07-02-2018, 05:12 AM
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Octavia can be glad that she has Indra and Bellamy to protect her

I hope she appreciates it someday

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Old 07-02-2018, 06:18 AM
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Thoughts on the moment where Octavia gives what is usually Indra's group to lead to Miller?
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Old 07-02-2018, 07:51 AM
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I sometimes find it hard to judge the characters because of the desperation of their situation. It can boil down to a question of what options were available to them.
Agreed.
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Old 07-02-2018, 07:53 AM
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Thoughts on the moment where Octavia gives what is usually Indra's group to lead to Miller?
That's obviously Octavia's punishment for Indra, because she knows that Indra has helped Kane and Abby
It must be hard for Indra to be degraded like that, but she did a good job with not showing much reaction/emotion and telling Miller it's okay for her to give up the lead
I liked it, that Miller didn't just take it that way ... he was obviously not fine with Indra's degradiation



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Old 07-02-2018, 08:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Regan (View Post)
I sometimes find it hard to judge the characters because of the desperation of their situation. It can boil down to a question of what options were available to them.

In the case of the irradiation of Mount Weather, Clarke and others had exhausted other potential solutions, including allying with the Grounders to save their people. Those in authority in Mount Weather were also offered donated bone marrow, and chose not to avail of it. Therefore, to my mind, irradiating the base was the only way for Clarke and Bellamy to save their people from being murdered, and I wouldn't think badly of them for it.

In contrast, the people at Mount Weather had options other than murdering people for their blood and bone marrow. They may have wanted to return to the surface but, as long as their bunker was capable of sustaining life, they didn't need to. Because of this, I couldn't see their actions as anything but wrong.

Octavia's actions in the bunker were motivated by necessity. They couldn't sustain their population beyond five years, and couldn't leave at the end of the five year period. The population needed to be reduced, and reducing it by eliminating criminals would have seemed the least bad option.
Well said. There are some instances for sure where I felt there were other options available to the characters so for them to not even consider them, or to take decisions which had huge repercussions to others didn't sit right with me. But the Mount Weather massacre was one instance where they were left with no choice, after - as you said - all options had been exhausted. Unfortunately, trust was placed with someone who ultimately betrayed Skaikru and MW people were vicious and deadset on getting their goal ... no matter who suffered, and that left them with no choice. Other decisions, like taking the bunker, massacring the sleeping army, letting the bomb drop on Ton DC, shooting the defectors etc ... not such a simple situation where there were still options available, IMO.

I can understand that decision by Octavia in the bunker too ... there's the clear issue of population control and with all the warring factions being trapped in the same place for 6 years, it's bound to lead to friction which needs to be kept under control.

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I liked it, that Miller didn't just take it that way ... he was obviously not fine with Indra's degradiation
I'm so clueless, I saw it as something that they had previously agreed on but I think that you're right, and that it was Octavia's punishment for Indra. So I'm really glad that Miller didn't just accept her decision there and looked to Indra when Octavia announced it.
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Old 07-02-2018, 09:54 AM
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I think Octavia also knew that Indra was helping Bellamy and Clarke in that moment, or at least suspected that Indra was SOMEHOW making a move against her, so giving her spot to Miller was punishment for that, too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Regan (View Post)
I sometimes find it hard to judge the characters because of the desperation of their situation. It can boil down to a question of what options were available to them.

In the case of the irradiation of Mount Weather, Clarke and others had exhausted other potential solutions, including allying with the Grounders to save their people. Those in authority in Mount Weather were also offered donated bone marrow, and chose not to avail of it. Therefore, to my mind, irradiating the base was the only way for Clarke and Bellamy to save their people from being murdered, and I wouldn't think badly of them for it.

In contrast, the people at Mount Weather had options other than murdering people for their blood and bone marrow. They may have wanted to return to the surface but, as long as their bunker was capable of sustaining life, they didn't need to. Because of this, I couldn't see their actions as anything but wrong.
Yep, I would agree with all of this.

Quote:
Octavia's actions in the bunker were motivated by necessity. They couldn't sustain their population beyond five years, and couldn't leave at the end of the five year period. The population needed to be reduced, and reducing it by eliminating criminals would have seemed the least bad option.
But her actions since leaving the bunker have not been motivated by necessity, IMO. She wants to go to war when there isn’t a war that needs to be fought. It’s a parallel to Pike in season 3, who wanted to fight despite there being a route to peace. Pike was the dictator, which Octavia is now. Pike nearly executed Kane for opposing him, as did Octavia when she nearly killed Kane himself, said they were going to execute Clarke, and threatened Bellamy. (Interesting how Bellamy’s breaking point in season 3 was when Kane was set to be executed and now it’s when Clarke is set to be executed.) I would love for someone, either Kane or Bellamy, to tell Octavia just how much like Pike she has become, except in her case, it’s a fanatical devotion her followers have and not just a political devotion. I would hope it would horrify her.
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Old 07-02-2018, 10:18 AM
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Really hope someone does April, but chances are they don't even realize it themselves.
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Old 07-02-2018, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by April7739 (View Post)
But her actions since leaving the bunker have not been motivated by necessity, IMO. She wants to go to war when there isn’t a war that needs to be fought. It’s a parallel to Pike in season 3, who wanted to fight despite there being a route to peace. Pike was the dictator, which Octavia is now. Pike nearly executed Kane for opposing him, as did Octavia when she nearly killed Kane himself, said they were going to execute Clarke, and threatened Bellamy. (Interesting how Bellamy’s breaking point in season 3 was when Kane was set to be executed and now it’s when Clarke is set to be executed.) I would love for someone, either Kane or Bellamy, to tell Octavia just how much like Pike she has become, except in her case, it’s a fanatical devotion her followers have and not just a political devotion. I would hope it would horrify her.
I full agree with you April, and I also hope that someone tells Octavia that she became the same person like Pike was
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Old 07-02-2018, 11:07 AM
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I full agree with you April, and I also hope that someone tells Octavia that she became the same person like Pike was
I feel like we're either gonna see that, or see someone bring up how Lincoln would feel about the person she's become.
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