TaraJoyful

Hi guys! I wanted to wait until after I slept on the episode to comment here, due to all the chaos I saw on social media last night.

Last night hurt, but honestly it's going to take us to the place we've all been hoping for.

Do I like the way the writers handled it? Absolutely not. But they do have a tendency to push the limits when it comes to betrayals on this show.

We've been saying all season that Bellamy and Clarke need to have an emotional release with each other, and last episode is what's going to get us to that point.

They've got to reach that emotional breaking point in order to move forward in their relationship, because up until now they've both been holding too much back.

kiss the wind

Great thoughts here, everyone!

I saw it as a bit manipulative. Not in a direct sense, because, well... he and Gaia told Madi the truth. They didn't force it on her. But they also made it seem like it was the only option to stop the war, which... no. And I think that Madi bringing up saving Clarke was an "in." Personally, I don't think they should have gone to Madi in the first place. I also think if Madi knew Bellamy was the one to poison Octavia, she never would have taken it.

I think the slapping him/leaving him to fight in the arena actually makes perfect sense. I'm not a mom, but even if it was like... a cousin or something, if someone I trusted completely put my family member in danger... yeah, sorry. Screw that person.

BlueDog9

It was a little manipulated. Stressing how it would save Clarke (which in the end it's not since she's on the run now) was totally to get to Madi to say yes.

I get her leaving him behind. I wouldn't want the person who I felt betrayed me with me either. Also, it's not like there was a lot of time to her to try to get to Bellamy. She and Madi needed to go while they actually had a chance to.

destroyer of worlds

Tara, totally understandable. I feel like every Bellarker probably feels like they got hit over the head with a shovel because we didn’t expect this type of angst, even though we were hoping for some good angst between them.

Agreed. I mentioned this in the Clarke thread but she had no way of knowing that Madi could convince other members of Wonkru so they had to get the heck out of them, while they still could.

I can understand how it can be seen as manipulative and ugh, it’s hard to swallow. Madi definitely knows that Clarke would not be happy with her or Bellamy (but mostly Bellamy) but she probably felt that there was no other option at the time. I don’t quite agree with comments that Bellarke are now toxic ... obviously this isn’t the highlight of their relationship but they’ve done not so great things to each other in the past too, and their relationship is too strong to be broken by this. I’m still just annoyed that the finale will probably will be them healing their relationship yet again and nothing more because I didn’t expect this for them.

TaraJoyful

I would have considered Bellamy using Clarke to convince Madi as super manipulative if he hadn't told Madi flat out that Clarke didn't approve of the plan.

Yes, she's a child so there's a different power dynamic at play there. But I think she really does understand the gravity of taking the Flame. So I'm hoping her telling Clarke that it was her choice will help heal that feeling of betrayal a bit.

And I also absolutely understand Clarke taking Madi and running. I mean, realistically what could she do at this point to stop Octavia? She doesn't know how many members of Wonkru would hypothetically support Madi. And Octavia is back and clearly out for blood. Her taking Madi and running is at this point the only way to immediately secure her safety (as is made clear by Octavia trying to have them both killed.)

destroyer of worlds

Yup, I would NOT be okay if he lied to her about how Clarke felt.

I really hope that it comes up between Clarke/Madi in next week's episode. I doubt that he would have truly forced it onto her if she didn't agree to it.

Yeah, honestly I would have thought that it would be silly if Clarke didn't immediately want to leave after that ... given what just happened. There was no way for them to try to save the others, even if she wasn't already angry at Bellamy.

April7739

This is gonna be long, but I have a lot to say. I had to switch to my computer this morning to type all this out. Too much for the iPad.

Enjoyed reading the discussion in here this morning, you guys. Kate, I loved your post. And Becks, I loved yours, too, and will respond further on Bobby's board!

(Hey, random note, but I'm sure Logan plans on doing his live stream today, and he's so great in them, but I feel like the poor guy is going to have to be a therapist to a lot of Twitter people, so drop by if you're interested in contributing to the discussion.)

Alexa, I totally understand that this is a thread where people can vent and share their views openly, which is why I acknowledged in my post that nobody was doing anything wrong. Just a personal preference, that I might have to step away if things get too doom and gloom, because it's honestly not good for my anxiety. But I don't get the doom and gloom sense today.

Sarah, I really like the twitter thread you shared. I've been a bit surprised that people are so harsh on Bellamy right now when it parallels so many of Clarke's decisions in season 1-4. (And I think one can argue that some of Clarke's decisions were even more morally debatable than what he did here, i.e. attempting to literally FORCE Luna to take the flame, which is why I was glad Bellamy mentioned that.) I think it's just that . . . Bellamy is THAT CHARACTER, you know. Good or bad, he is the one who just generates an overwhelming emotional response in the fandom. So like after 5x03, nobody can stop talking about how much they love Bellamy. After 5x09, nobody can stop talking about how upset they are with Bellamy. Like, Octavia has literally put her brother in a gladiator pit now to fight to the death, and I don't know if people are even talking about that much right now, because they may be too busy talking about Bellamy. (I'm not venturing into the tags, so I'm clueless.)

As I said all last night both here and on Twitter and will continue to say some more, I understand very well where both Clarke and Bellamy are coming from in this episode. I'm honestly 50/50 about it. Half of me totally supports how Clarke feels in the midst of her dilemma, half of me totally supports Bellamy. I think Bellamy has been in the ****tiest position out of everyone this season, loyalties all over the place. And Clarke's been in a ****ty position, too, feeling out of place and on the outside. I just feel so bad for both of them right now (and for Madi) because they didn't want this. They got swept up in Bloodreina's Wonkru, and were it up to them, none of this would be happening right now. But it's not up to them. They're not calling the shots. And they're both struggling with that.

The parallels to 4x11 are SO STRONG with this one, though, guys. (It's so weird, because prior to the episode, I was thinking about 4x11, and I didn't know why. Maybe subconsciously, I knew something like this would happen.) It's just that the roles are reversed. Clarke is the one chained up and powerless like Bellamy was in 4x11. Clarke is the one trying to save a loved one, like Bellamy was in 4x11. Bellamy is the one making the morally questionable decision without Clarke's agreement, just like Clarke made the decision to leave Octavia outside of that bunker. in--wait for it--4x11. (The only difference is that that decision condemned Octavia to death, whereas this decision just . . . changes things a lot.) Clarke didn't go through with her decision. Bellamy did. But yeah, STRONG parallels. And I didn't give up on Clarke then, so I certainly won't give up on Bellamy here.

Let's also remember that, after 4x11, with Clarke literally pointing a gun at Bellamy, he managed to forgive her pretty quickly. (Perhaps a little too quickly, but it didn't feel inorganic to me.) This relationship, though I believe it is founded on so many wonderful, healthy qualities, isn't necessarily a bright and shining example of a healthy relationship ALL the time. This episode and 4x11 are the two biggest examples to me of how, even though I ship Bellarke so hard and even though I think there really are so many positive things about their relationship, it's certainly not perfect. And extreme circumstances like Wonkru's war or Praimfaya tend to bring to light its biggest imperfections.

In regards to whether or not he was manipulating Madi . . . while I get how some people might feel that way, I didn't see it that way at all. Now, if he had lied to her and said that Clarke was okay with it, then that would have for sure been manipulation, and I would have been extremely pissed at him. Now yes, he did influence her, but he still gave her the choice. Was Madi too young to make that choice? Potentially. I get that the situation is more debatable because she is a child. But to me, he was appealing to one very strong, common desire they had, which was to save Clarke. Yes, he wants to save others, too, but he still wants to save Clarke, just like Madi does. So it's influence to me, not manipulation. I think it's important to note the difference.

Also, in regards to the line about his family . . . see, this is why I think it's good to watch an episode, because when you just read about a line, it can seem different. Bellamy wasn't saying, "You're NOT my family, Clarke." He was just trying to get her to understand where he was coming from. She was talking to him about how Madi is her family, basically, and he drew a comparison. I get why people think it seemed harsh, but realistically . . . Bellamy's been with these people for 6 years. He barely knows Madi. And him saying that doesn't diminish his and Clarke's connection. It's just that they don't even know what their connection is right now.

All in all, too, this episode is such a heart-wrenching one, because we get the sweet "Together" at the beginning, which shows us that, yes, they do still want to be in this together; they don't want to be at odds. They love each other. Bellamy knows that he's risking what he has with Clarke by proceeding with Madi. Clarke knows she's risking his life to leave him behind. It must be an awful feeling for both of them.

And about Clarke leaving him behind . . . yeah, I didn't love that. It sucks because we as the audience know that what pushed Bellamy over the edge with Octavia was her threatening Clarke. We know that an important part of the reason why he wanted Madi to take the flame was for Clarke. But she doesn't know that, because she's heard him talk about protecting Spacekru. But Madi and Octavia are the people who know how much he has risked and put on the line for her. So it sucks to see Clarke leave--a very heat of the moment decision which I think she will regret and which I hope will horrify her as it sinks in--it sucks to see her leave because we know how much that man in the pit has sacrificed for her. But I also get where she's coming from. She's a mother now. I'm not a mother myself, but I know without a doubt my mom would do anything for me.

Now with all this said . . . as heart-wrenching as this all is right now, think about this, you guys: Some of Bellarke's biggest disagreements in the past have come when they can't see eye to eye about something or understand why the other one is doing what they are. Think of how upset they were with each other in 3x05, or how upset Bellamy was with her in 4x11, just as two examples. Now we have a Clarke who knows what it's like to be heart-driven like Bellamy, and we have a Bellamy who knows what it's like to have to set his heart aside and try to use his head, like Clarke. Ultimately, as painful as this is right now, what I'm hoping we end up with (and think we have the potential to end up with) is a Bellamy and Clarke who can empathize with and understand each other in ways that they never have before, in ways that create an even deeper connection because it's a connection that has been truly tested.

destroyer of worlds

Hey April. Will comment tomorrow once I have a chance to process everything. Happy posting and stay strong, lovelies. I just HOPE that this is the lowest point (when it comes to their relationship) because I think that we've suffered enough for the season.

kiss the wind

In regards to the 4x11 comparison, I was really happy because I saw people asking why people are mad at Bellamy here when Madi is in no danger whereas Clarke was leaving Octavia (and Kane) to die. Someone pointed out that, by and large, most of fandom was quite vocal about being PISSED at Clarke after that episode. Which is understandable. So being pissed at Bellamy here makes sense. And honestly? Bellamy doesn't know what the flame actually does. He DID put Madi in danger. She almost didn't wake up. While it was an understandable idea that he though it was the best way to save his people, he didn't actually think through the potential consequences. And he also barely seemed to consider that Octavia would actually wake up? Just because Murphy was down for a week doesn't mean the algae affects everyone the same way.

Let's just say I don't envy either of their positions right now.

Don't get me wrong, I still understand why Bellamy thought the flame was a good idea. I just don't think he went about it the right way (not that Clarke went about it the right way in season three, but I'm not even gonna get into that because I'm so over season three stuff).

Steph26

We are all good. Thanks Sarah! Are you in the path of the typhoon? I’ve been keeping an eye on it.



April, sorry about your anxiety.


The episode literally wasn’t as bad as I expected based on comments. It’s a set up episode, so that’s how I took it. Sure, there are things I didn’t exactly like, but it’s not the end. My biggest annoyance this season is Octavia. I’ve never been her biggest fan, and I’d rather them kill her off than redeem her at this point.


Here’s the thing...I am a mom, and my kids’ safety does come above all else, but depending on the person, I wouldn’t leave a Bellamy there to just die. If it was my husband, definitely not, some friends too. Family. I would probably get my kids to safety then try to save that person. I hope Clarke does come back for Bellamy, but the writers always seem to have a different plan, so I’m not sure that’s how it’ll go. All I know is Bellamy and Clarke will be fine in the end.

April7739

That's true, Amelia. I feel like, here, we were a lot more CRITICAL of Clarke's 4x11 decision than pissed, but I wasn't on Twitter at the time, so I have no idea how the fandom as a whole reacted to it. I feel like I can be critical and not exactly thrilled here with Bellamy like I was with Clarke in 4x11, so I'm feeling proud of myself for that.

This might sound weird to say, but . . . I'm actually really excited to re-watch this episode, probably later today. I really want to pay extra attention to the looks on Bellamy's and Clarke's faces the whole time, because Bob is so good at that, and it's an area of acting where I feel like Eliza has grown leaps and bounds from season 1.

We've been saying all season that, hard as it is to believe, Clarke seems to be ahead of Bellamy when it comes to fully confronting her feelings for him. Do you guys think that, after everything that went down now in 5x09, Bellamy might start to catch back up to her? Like, does this give him an opportunity to be honest with himself? Or is he going to be too busy, you know, fighting for his life?

Thanks. It's actually something I've only been open about for the past year, because Bob inspired me to be more open about it. I'm not having a flare up or anything. I just felt like it could happen last night--and I did wake up after only 3 hours of sleep this morning and struggled to get back to sleep--but I think it will be fine now. I just . . . I need to make some decisions when it comes to Twitter, honestly. I really don't think I even want to be on it in season 6.

TaraJoyful

April, as far as Twitter goes I don't even go in the tags anymore. I've found a good core group of positive people to follow, and I usually just stick to that. It also helps to wait a day or two to log on, because people have usually calmed down by then.

I think Bellamy definitely got a bit of an emotional wake up call last episode, so I'm interested to see how he handles it going forward. I wouldn't be suprised if Madi is the one to smooth the way for him and Clarke to get back "together".

To me, 5x09 seemed like the episode where all the differences between Bellarke that we've seen this season finally came to a head. We needed to get to this point, and through it, in order to see them get to an emotional resolution.

April7739

I love this, Tara. I really do feel like it was a turning point of angst, and to be quite honest, I would have been disappointed if Bob and Eliza had exaggerated it. I was starting to think that 5x08 was the extent of it, which was making me kind of feel let-down. Now, this is obviously extreme angst, so it’s not exactly pleasant, but I do feel like I get what they were saying now.

Yeah, I’ll stay on Twitter the remainder of this season, with some people muted, and I’ll be very selective of what I venture a look at. Season 6 . . . I don’t know. I’ll have to see how I feel about it when the time comes.

BlueDog9

It's like we're in the darkest part of the longest tunnel, just trying to get to the light at the end.

5X09 script page:

Foxie

Oh we got the script nothing we don't know yet though