destroyer of worlds

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Previous thread

jediwands

Tftnt.

kiss the wind

TFTNT

From last thread:

Exactly, she's the same person with a different allegiance. Her loyalty has changed, but she hasn't changed as a person/her motivations haven't changed (IMO).

April7739

TFTNT!

That’s a good point about her, one I hadn’t thought of. I think that, from a relationship standpoint, we would have benefitted from seeing more, but from a plot standpoint, we didn’t need to see more because it is in character.

Fuzzy Dunlop

Since we're still having this conversation about Echo, I'm gonna bring over my reply since it got buried at the end of the thread:

I also want to say that I think Echo did have a redemption arc at the end of S4. Her lowest point was cheating in the conclave and then everything after that was redemption. She went to Octavia and basically sacrificed herself to have the rest of Azgeda. Then she saved Adventure Squad from being killed in that ambush. And then she was working together with everyone as a team to try to escape the death wave. The key scene was that conversation she had with Bellamy about how scared she was and they talked about how they would have to spend the next five years working together and how Bellamy didn't know if he could learn to trust her, but he valued and needed her because she's strong. That's it right there. They set us up for understanding what was going to happen on the Ring over the time jump. So then when you come back in S5, the audience sees that all of those things have come to fruition and Bellamy and Echo have learned to work together and even love each other. Sure, they didn't spend a whole season working on a redemption arc, but Echo is a relatively minor character and I don't think it was necessary to go more in depth than that.

kiss the wind

If that was meant to be her redemption, it definitely didn't come across that way or hold enough weight compared to her actions (in my eyes, at least - I can, however, see that perhaps that's what the intention of the writing was).

Fuzzy Dunlop

It worked just fine for me! I felt like I could see they were heading towards "redeeming" Echo all season. They gave her a lot of interesting moments throughout that clearly hinted at it, like when she apologized to Bellamy about Mt. Weather, when she was remorseful about thinking she had killed Octavia, and when she and Bellamy had that whole side mission where Bellamy talked Riley down from assassinating Roan. After all of that, I was fully expecting her to come back in S5 having fully integrated into Spacekru.

April7739

Dude, same.

Taryn74

Hmm, good points. I think by the end of S4 I was so afraid to trust her I kind of glossed over her helping the Adventure Squad, I figured she was setting them up for a double cross or something. And then by the time S5 started I had forgotten about it.

Fuzzy Dunlop

Yeah, there was that moment when they showed her putting on the war paint and everyone was supposed to think, "Oh no! Is she going to betray them?" And then after the commercial break they come back and it's revealed that she's just scared and she's going to kill herself. Kinda typical storytelling technique to surprise you with a character's softer, vulnerable side. And then she has that heartfelt pep talk with Bellamy. I think they set up her S5 story really well like this. But I can see how since she's just a supporting character, a lot of people overlook or forget about the work the writers put into developing her.

sonny1

Echo taking the leadership role until Roan wakes up in 4x01 wasn't only a very small action ... it's a big part of the episode

Everyone has different leadership styles ... Raven/Murphy did it their own way, and Echo is used to have a military leadership style ... that's nothing bad for me ... quite the contrary ... I like bossy leaders. I think that's pretty cool
Clarke and Diyoza, they have a pretty similar leadership styles IMO, and I also like it to see them leading a group

I agree with everything you've said about Echo, Fuzzy

April7739

See, the divide in opinion stems from viewers just having different perceptions, not necessarily overlooking anything. Some viewers feel that season 4 set up a redemption for her that works as happening off screen. Some feel differently. Neither side is wrong for viewing it the way they do. Personally, I don’t feel like anything we got in prior seasons was sufficient enough to show any redemptive development, so I’m struggling because I feel like the show is just telling me she’s redeemed. The seeds may have been planted, but we didn’t get to watch them grow, so to speak.

I was going to say more, but I just won’t.

And let’s be clear that this is not a bash. In reality, more of my issues with Echo stem from the way they’ve written her character rather than the actual potential of the character herself. At least people aren’t indifferent towards her, though. Whether positive or negative, strong opinions about her do exist.

In other news, moving on to a new topic . . . Logan’s reaction vids are up and they’re great. I pretty much agree with him whole-heartedly about this past episode. His Top 10 changed, too. He actually bumped Diyoza up to his #5 and Octavia down to his #6.

kiss the wind

I was so sad at the fact that their wasn't much Diyoza in this episode.

She's actually probably in my top three for the season.

April7739

She’s been such a surprise. I don’t normally warm up to new characters so quickly, but last season I had Ilian, and now this season, I’ve got her.

The initial introduction seemed to lead people to believe she’d be a villain, but she’s been far less villainous than many other characters this season. That twist in the way they wrote her character has been really refreshing and interesting.

Fuzzy Dunlop

April, why do we have to keep doing this? I was responding specifically to a person who said they had "glossed over" and "forgotten" about parts of Echo's storyline. It's not about you. Nobody is telling you your feelings are wrong. I wasn't even talking to you, so there's no need for all this defensiveness.