The 100 - Co-leaders [Bellamy/Clarke) #1 ~ "They're like two sides of a coin." - Jason - Page 3

Fuzzy Dunlop · 08-23-2020, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damocles (View Post)

I didn't mean from a personal standpoint, so much.

Well if people could discuss Bellamy and Clarke without having to compare them to other "opposing" ships, then that would work - wouldn't it? We have this issue sometimes on the Bellarke thread, too. Since the dawn of television fandoms, you literally cannot compare ships without people getting up in arms. This show is not the exception. In a perfect fandom world you could compare 'opposing' ships without people getting angry and defensive

I'm not sure why you guys sound like you're getting slightly aggravated with me, when I legitimately just wanted to know your actual, in-depth viewpoints on why you feel the way you do. Is that not what a discussion is? I'd much rather that than someone just coming in here to declare that Clexa or Becho are superior, post a smilie and bounce. As for the baiting, that's also up to interpretation but there are quotes from people like Aaron where they say they outright teased shippers and purposely goaded them for fun, in a 'loving' way (not a direct quote, but along those lines) so you can take that however you wish. Or not at all, I really don't care anymore because if people truly feel like they were baited, that's up to them. And would we really put it past these people? Remember the crap they pulled back when Lexa was alive? It's not a foreign concept.

Sonja:

Spoiler:

Lisa, I don't even think I've brought up anything about opposing ships here? I feel like you're getting aggravated with me because I don't buy the whole bait victim story. You ask for my opinions on these topics, I gave them to you. I don't think it's possible to claim that you guys didn't know what was going on since Jason has been saying since like 2014 that he didn't intend for Bellarke to be romantic. If you all ignored that, I think it's on you.

And you see what happened here, right? You asked us for our "actual, in-depth viewpoints" and when we explained ourselves, sure enough Sarah was in here right away to warn us off. It's like entrapment or something. We can't catch a break here.

kenni727 · 08-23-2020, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damocles (View Post)

Well if people could discuss Bellamy and Clarke without having to compare them to other "opposing" ships, then that would work - wouldn't it? We have this issue sometimes on the Bellarke thread, too. Since the dawn of television fandoms, you literally cannot compare ships without people getting up in arms. This show is not the exception. In a perfect fandom world you could compare 'opposing' ships without people getting angry and defensive

I'm not sure why you guys sound like you're getting slightly aggravated with me, when I legitimately just wanted to know your actual, in-depth viewpoints on why you feel the way you do. Is that not what a discussion is? I'd much rather that than someone just coming in here to declare that Clexa or Becho are superior, post a smilie and bounce. As for the baiting, that's also up to interpretation but there are quotes from people like Aaron where they say they outright teased shippers and purposely goaded them for fun, in a 'loving' way (not a direct quote, but along those lines) so you can take that however you wish. Or not at all, I really don't care anymore because if people truly feel like they were baited, that's up to them. And would we really put it past these people? Remember the crap they pulled back when Lexa was alive? It's not a foreign concept.

In my previous incident in the Bellarke thread I wasn’t comparing ships. Or at least that hadn’t been my intent. I was attempting to explain how I think Echo is good for Bellamy and as such helps his friendship with Clarke. I genuinely feel that Bellarke is ~~borderline~~ dysfunctional at this point. They each need someone else in their lives to help keep them grounded so they can continue as good co-leaders. I feel like comparison of relationships can be done without bashing one ship. Never my intent to bash Bellarke. I shipped them for a long time. I understand the draw. I feel the show did miss an excellent opportunity there. But the ship has sailed, and I’ve come to appreciate it in another way.

And I’m not agitated with you, Lisa. I appreciate your questions. You’ve enabled a real discussion which I’ve enjoyed. What I don’t enjoy is being reprimanded by another mod for answering your questions.

SongIceFire · 08-24-2020, 09:30 AM

Thanks for the discussion everyone! I will go through everything - you've written a lot.

But I want to answer the question of Damocles why I haven't opened the thread earlier. Because I was scared of Bellarkers to come here and tell us all the things that make Bellarke romantic - which it isn't and never will be. I felt like I would have slaughtered in here if I had opened this thread earlier. And somehow I still have the feeling some of you guys hate this thread and go in here to make us feel bad about not shipping Bellarke romantically. And I am sure I am right by this and many surely hate to see this Thread on page 1

But I wanna thank these people who have a civil conversation.

Also I got a PM from Chris telling me we have this Thread now and should go ahead. So Mods, if you have any complains about his thread, please take it to MMs and Chris.

Thanks and now go on with the discussion.

Also if I shall add anything to the OP, please let me know

sonny1 · 08-24-2020, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damocles (View Post)

Sonja:

Spoiler:

I like the (Screeners) ending the most. So I'm not ready to believe something else and I don't watch out for other spoilers

I didn't save the Bellarke spoilers on my computer, but I can remember that Screeners told us their last scene

Spoiler:

Fuzzy Dunlop · 08-24-2020, 07:29 PM

Is that from another spoiler account on twitter?

Spoiler:

kenni727 · 08-24-2020, 07:33 PM

I don't look at spoilers, so this isn't spoilers just pure speculation. I don't think Clarke's going to make it. Fuzzy has speculated in several episode threads that Clarke will end up sacrificing herself or some such. And now with Jordan's interpretation being that it's not a war but rather a test the idea now being Clarke will be the one to face that test. Honestly, I'm not sure she's qualified for taking a test for all mankind, but I can see the show ending that way.

Not sure about Bellamy. It doesn't really make sense for both of them to face that end. But I'm not sure I see him surviving all this either.

Fuzzy Dunlop · 08-24-2020, 07:44 PM

At this point, there's so few humans left, Clarke might be one of the best ones to take the test. Even though I would say Murphy has had the most growth.

I really just don't know what to think about how Bellamy's story is going to end. All bets are off with this new storyline. I'm sure he'll redeem himself from where he's at right now, but I don't know if they'll give him a happy ending or if they'll bum us all out by killing him.

SongIceFire · 08-24-2020, 10:36 PM

I'm with you guys. At the start of the Season I was sure they would kill Clarke off, now I am definitely sure she will "transcending".

As for Bellamy I can't see him surviving either and given all the behind the scenes drama I do think he will get killed off. But would they really kill off Bellamy and Clarke (and maybe even more mains)?

Fuzzy Dunlop · 08-25-2020, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damocles (View Post)

I don't like when people tell me I haven't been baited and that I've just been looking for things that aren't there, and that I'm over-analyzing something because I'm desperate to find clues to fit my own narrative. I almost feel like it's a weird, mild form of gaslighting. Give some viewers a bit of credit, there are those who still feel like there was some baiting involved while still maintaining a scepticism towards romantic Bellarke ever happening. It's not all delusional, rabid fangirls. That random dude's video above is just another example. Everyone is entitled to their opinion on the matter, but I don't think anybody should be dismissing how people should feel after viewing the scenes that were presented to them onscreen. Of course, that means you shouldn't get mad at people for apparently not seeing any Bellarke moments over the past six years as questionably romantic, too.

Forgive me if I'm totally misreading the situation, but it kinda seems like you came over to this thread to ask our opinions on whether or not you were baited, you didn't like our answers, so instead of telling us how you feel about it, you went to start a new conversation about it in the romantic Bellarke thread?

Like I said in our earlier conversation, Jason has basically been trying to give us Schrodinger's Bellarke. He deliberately wrote them in a way that gives the audience the ability to decide for themselves what kind of love is between them. Both platonic and romantic Bellarke viewpoints are valid. So I don't think anyone is crazy or delusional just for that. But Jason has to kinda open the box at the end of the series. Either they get together on screen or they don't, right?

Ultimately, whether or not you've been baited doesn't depend on how much you feel you've been baited. It's the intent of Jason and the writers. My original understanding of "baiting" in this fandom was more along these lines. It was something the Clexa fans complained of because they felt their community had been baited to watch the show with the promise of a canon relationship, but then Lexa got killed off. So were they intentionally baited or did they just lose the actress? I really don't know.

So were Bellarke fans baited in a similar way? I think not because Jason said very early on that he hadn't meant for them to come off as romantic in season 1. Eliza and Bob said the same thing. But the Bellarke fans got really angry when they said it. So we found ourselves in this uncomfortable situation where a part of the fandom was demanding something that the showrunner had already said he wasn't interested in. And the implication is that if he doesn't give you what you want, you'll all stop watching the show and it will crash his ratings. The Bellarke fans have a lot of power in this situation, actually. It's not as if he lured you in to a show that you weren't already enjoying, right? It's not as if Bellarke is the only reason you all watch the show, is it?

sonny1 · 08-25-2020, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fuzzy Dunlop (View Post)

Is that from another spoiler account on twitter?

Yes, this one https://twitter.com/The100Screeners

It's private. You have to make a request.

***Chris*** · 08-27-2020, 07:58 AM

This thread is for people who support a friendship. They don't have to justify their opinions. If you see a romance between the characters, that's fine, you should be posting in the romance thread. Also, the opposite holds true. If you see them as just friends, then you should be posting here and not in the romance thread. Everybody is entitled to their point of view, and we all need to respect that others may not agree.

Fuzzy Dunlop · 08-27-2020, 06:15 PM

I've been working on a mega-analysis of Bellamy and Clarke's friendship, so I went back over every season and sort of tracked what happened between them. It's been pretty interesting and I'm noticing things I never noticed before. I've got a 3 day weekend (yesssssssss) so I'm gonna try to finish it and post it tomorrow.

kenni727 · 08-27-2020, 07:21 PM

I'm excited for your thoughts on this. Since I shipped Bellarke romantically for the first 4 seasons but no longer I've often wondered what I would think of them in those first few seasons if I were to do a rewatch.

Also wondered how I might view some of their other relationships. Specifially Clexa. I was never a fan of Lexa or Clexa. I always maintained it had nothing to do with Bellarke. I still feel I'm being honest when I say that. But perhaps my view of that ship was colored a bit by my shipping preference at the time.

With the perspective I have of Bellarke now I wish there had been others to help balance things out. I've mentioned that I consider them to have developed an unhealthy codependency. I feel like if either had other healthy relationships could have prevented that.

SongIceFire · 08-28-2020, 06:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damocles (View Post)

You have this thread, enjoy it. I won't be posting in here anymore because of annoying digs like this. If you feel personally victimized by me and horrendously attacked by this post, then please take it up with the MMs, or say it to my face in a private message. Some people are capable of this and have done it with me in the past. I don't care if this post is the wrong place for me to rant about this, but I am absolutely done with certain posters claiming things that simply aren't true and making it sound like me (and Sarah) have been raging a**holes for the last five years, bullying people off threads and the board. We obviously have our own opinions on things and sometimes get heated as well, but that's the nature of discussion and as long as it doesn't get personal or veer towards breaking board rules, then great.

Someone asked me once why I opened this thread only now and not earlier - because of comments below I guess which further prove my point. We try to enjoy this board and then we get comments like "enjoy enjoy BUT....*RANT* Ehhhhhh

Thanks Chris. I hope everyone just sticks to their thread and stops bashing in this one. We keep saying this over and over again but somehow it doesn't change.

As for Bellarke romantic, fun fact Kenni, I also shipped them romantically in season 1 maybe. Even in season 2 when I started shipping Clexa there was still some nice Bellarke. But season 3 changed everything and I even hated Bellarke when he chained her on this table. This was so toxic and I knew I could never ship them again. Also I think they bring out the worst in each other when they have these tough decisions and try to "forgive" each other by saying they are good people and had to do this but I don't really believe it. This is the unhealthy codependency you mentioned. All these points made me stop shipping them romantcially. As for their friendship, it had many ups and downs. It's an interesting dynamic. JR did focus on that. The up and downs of leaderships.

By the way I always thought Clarke, Bellamy and Raven would have made a great leadership as a trio. Any thoughts of that? Maybe Clarke and Bellamy needed some help of her and some more advices of other people? Specifically Raven?

I am looking forward to the review Fuzzy!

sonny1 · 08-28-2020, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SongIceFire (View Post)

By the way I always thought Clarke, Bellamy and Raven would have made a great leadership as a trio. Any thoughts of that? Maybe Clarke and Bellamy needed some help of her and some more advices of other people? Specifically Raven?

Raven never wanted to be a leader. Same as Octavia, btw.

Bellamy and Clarke always led their groups without thinking. It's just normal for them to take responsibility.

So I'd say ... if someone doesn't want to be a leader, then it doesn't make sense to push him into leadership.

Raven is more an good advisor for the leaders, but she shouldn't take the lead herself.


Fan Forum > Archived Television Shows > The 100 > Co-leaders [Bellamy/Clarke) #1 ~ "They're like two sides of a coin." - Jason