destroyer of worlds

Such a cute Eliza GIF, Kate.

I got you covered there though I'm not even sure if I make sense :

I think that it was something to the effect of "The decisions that you make, they whittle at you piece by piece." And I agree that Jaha's conversations with Clarke are always very intriguing to watch because these are two people who think alike in a lot of areas but may not act the same in the same scenarios. And Jaha says a lot of things that Clarke might not want to hear, but there's truth in (some) of them.


Well said, Kate.

In a perfect world, of course it'd be nice to always take decisions which are 100% morally right but they're far from being in one ... it's a cruel, brutal world for them and though I don't think that's an excuse for certain actions and that Clarke (just like the rest of them) needs to be held accountable for what they decide to do, I can understand how she rationalises such decisions.

She's capable of taking her emotions out of the equation (most of the time) and that's what a good leader needs to do ... which I feel like the others struggle more with, compared to her, since they're generally more emotionally invested when it comes to making decisions (barring maybe Raven?). Not necessarily a bad thing but sometimes, there's no choice and Clarke's ruthless pragmatism is what is needed for them to survive.

Whether they still deserve to survive based on those actions (and I love that it's an ongoing theme in the show) is another thing entirely though.

April7739

I rewatched 4x08 for the first time last night, and I remembered how upset I was with Abby for standing back and being willing to let Clarke be the one to inject Emori. I realize that, plot-wise, we needed Clarke to inject herself, but . . . come on, Abby, you’re the adult, the doctor, and the mother here. You should bear that burden instead of your daughter.

the1marie

That always bothered me too, April. Definitely not one of Abby's best moments

Damocles

Yeah, I agree. I'm going to blame her wonky brain for that one. My logic is flawed but I grasp onto it.

CanIcallYouKate

Agree with the importance for the plot re Clarke.
But I'mma give Abby a pass here. Taking the hippocratic oath is the most important thing for a doctor. Do no harm. Abby couldn't be 100% sure that Emori would be fine, so I understand her not being able to go through with it!

Sarah
Completely agree with you there. And the others HAVE held her accountable (Raven, Abby, Bellamy, Octavia, Jasper, Monty, Murphy). I feel sometimes that criticism is warranted and other times, they're letting their frustrations with the general suckiness of their situation out on her. She does occasionally ask them for better ideas and mostly, they have nothing to offer. So yeah, she bears the burden because no one else will

#teamclarke #clarkedefensesquad

destroyer of worlds

That upset/annoyed me too but yeah, I've accepted that it HAD to happen because of the plot point.

Exactly! I get that her actions can be frustrating at times, I really do, but other times, I'm like "Okay, so what alternative plan do you guys have? Since you're crapping on Clarke for her suggestions but don't have a better one?" #clarkedefensesquadtoo It's easier to sit on glass thrones and give opinions but taking action is quite another. Clarke is many things but indecisive ... that's not what I'd describe her as, at all.

CanIcallYouKate

And yeah

She makes the impossible choices and horrible decisions when no one else will.


It even dawned on Octavia in the end as well that being a leader, being in charge might be a crappy job

April7739

Yeah, Octavia has been critical of Clarke, which I’ve actually kind of enjoyed. But it will be interesting to see if she empathizes with her now that she’s had to a leadership role thrust upon her, too.

Damocles

Good point - Octavia has a taste now of what it's like to be in charge of people and their lives, and to make huge decisions. The times she was barking at Clarke in the past, she wasn't in the same position.

Granted Clarke kind of put herself in that position, but someone had to

CanIcallYouKate

So this might be a tad too much about Octavia, given whose thread this is, but when exactly has Octavia shown to have leadership qualities until now? (I am genuinely asking, not trying to be quip here )
The one time she really impressed me re being a leader was her OneKru decision. And as much as we talked about Kane and Indra being influential in shaping her, that is as much to Lincoln's credit as theirs, I believe.

I repeat myself, but sitting on the sidelines and criticizing those who make the decisions is like screaming at the tv because your government does things you disagree with

There have been so many moments throughout the show, when everybody was trying to come to grips with a situation, when Clarke had not only already analyzed it (and seen through the enemie's plan) but come up with a solution, too.

#ClarkeGoggles

Karma Police

Eliza interview from the Polaris CON in Germany:



I don't think Octavia ever wanted to be a leader, it's a coincidence she found herself in that position. Remains to be seen what kind of leader she'll be if that's what they plan her to be in season 5.

It's definitely way easier to criticize somebody from the sidelines but Octavia was so harsh on Clarke, esp. in season 2, because the way things were being handled reminded her of the Ark. And lets not forget that Octavia could have died in the TonDC attack, she had a lot of reasons to be angry at Clarke.

Yeah, it's easy to say as a viewer that you would never act this way but we're not living in a post-apocalyptic world fighting for survival and facing radiation. In general I'm against the decisions most of them make but I can also acknowledge it's the circumstances that forced them to make them, at least in most cases. In a perfect world they would never have to face such dilemmas in the first place.

I think a great leader is something in-between both of those approaches? It's great if you can set aside your emotions and always judge a situation rationally and objectively but a leader also has to be compassionate and empathetic. Pragmatism is good but sometimes if you bury your feelings too well, it can affect the way you lead too. I think Clarke shutting down her emotions is what failed her in the end, she buried all the doubts, all the grief to rationalize her decisions to herself but in the end she crumbled from it coming to surface.

CanIcallYouKate

Oh no, I've not forgotten
I was also angry with Clarke!

I completely agree with this, Paulina

Karma Police

Some people in the fandom tend to forget that though. When it happened I saw a lot of online comments how Octavia was a brat and ungrateful. I was like: Would you honestly hug Clarke after she left you for certain death?

CanIcallYouKate

^nope

But I do think Octavia forgave her in the end maybe? I mean she did say to Bellamy, "I'm not a leader, it should be someone like you or Clarke" (unless I made that up )
I am still astonished (well...) how Bellamy managed to bring himself to forgive Clarke for TonDC / Octavia

Karma Police

I don't remember that but maybe Paula knows?

Yeah, me too. It was also never addressed, I'm guessing Bellamy found out sometime between going from Mt Weather to Camp Jaha in the season 3 finale?